Dialing in modelers

M

midgod07

Active member
Anyone use a plain old PA speaker for tweaking modeler patches? Had considered monitors, but feel like they won’t give me an idea at volume. What speakers are you using?
 
Im sure you could do it that way
I have used a bunch incl headrush 112, ev elx 112p, qsc k12 best has been atomic clr, been a long time axe fx guy
you might wanna play with hogh /low cut on the irs to tune patches also
 
I had a powercab 212+ and hated it. The headrush I tried in store sounded much better.

Just looking for best option to not have to tweak too much when playing live. Not sure monitors are the best for that.
 
I think powercab has built in irs
there is a thread on fractal forum for applying eq to flatten headrush curve might help with headrush
ir/frfr thing takes a bit of tweaking and can be a rabbit hole but if you become comfortable it opens up a lotta versatility
York audio irs + clr did the trick for me
Power amo and guitar cab with no irs is easiesr way
 
There should be no inherent differences between PA speakers and studio monitors. They both try to produce the flattest cleanest signal possible. However, if they're budget built, PA speakers are going to prioritize high volume at the expense of sound quality, whereas monitors will prioritize sound quality at the expense of volume (and they often don't do either all that well). If you get quality stuff though, you shouldn't have to worry about it.

Volume is a factor though, fletcher-munson, etc. The "best" way to dial in your sound would be to tweak in the exact environment and conditions in which you're going to be performing, so whatever you can do to get your rig to that point is probably best.

Personally I like Atomic CLRs for FRFR because they're basically idealized PA speakers... or "studio monitors" that can get loud enough for gigs. They're expensive though, but imo worth it.
 
roodboy said:
I think powercab has built in irs
there is a thread on fractal forum for applying eq to flatten headrush curve might help with headrush
ir/frfr thing takes a bit of tweaking and can be a rabbit hole but if you become comfortable it opens up a lotta versatility
York audio irs + clr did the trick for me
Power amo and guitar cab with no irs is easiesr way
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it did, and i struggled with it. always sounded like there was a blanket over it

honestly with the new Helix update i'm getting better sounds out of the stock cabs than i am after market irs.

i agree with the power amp and guitar cab statement. all about moving air!
 
TheGreatGreen said:
There should be no inherent differences between PA speakers and studio monitors. They both try to produce the flattest cleanest signal possible. However, if they're budget built, PA speakers are going to prioritize high volume at the expense of sound quality, whereas monitors will prioritize sound quality at the expense of volume (and they often don't do either all that well). If you get quality stuff though, you shouldn't have to worry about it.

Volume is a factor though, fletcher-munson, etc. The "best" way to dial in your sound would be to tweak in the exact environment and conditions in which you're going to be performing, so whatever you can do to get your rig to that point is probably best.

Personally I like Atomic CLRs for FRFR because they're basically idealized PA speakers... or "studio monitors" that can get loud enough for gigs. They're expensive though, but imo worth it.
Click to expand...
i looked at those early on. there's so many options it makes your head spin. i figure something like an EV ZLX should be adequate. it's not their highest offering, but seems like a solid go-to and possibly what you might use at a gig.
 
I dial things in using my powered FRFR wedge, just like how I'd dial in a conventional amp/cabinet. Make sure to give it enough volume, and from there you're depending on your engineer to make tweaks to accommodate for differences in frequency response and sound pressure of the FOH system.

Many of the places we play have their own system and engineer, and for the rest of them we hire one of a couple different production companies. Dialing things in using my wedge at least gives me a fixed target and ensures that what I'm hearing will be fairly consistent for me regardless of the other variables. I don't dial things in at ear-bleeding levels, but not at bedroom levels either. Above 75-80dB or so, the overall contour of Fletcher-Munson doesn't vary a ton, at least not in the ranges where guitar is primarily focused.
 
In the past I’ve used QSC12, EV12 and then I got a Mission Engineering Gemini II which is amazing but expensive. Good enough and loud enough to use it live though.
 
FRFR cabinets okay but very expensive.

Buddy who’s been into the scene for several years and plays out consistently uses JBL powered PA speakers. If I recall the EON series. He has two. One on the floor in front of him like a floor monitor and the other off to the side of the stage. He has a fractal unit. Sounds massive
 
MusicIsLife said:
I dial things in using my powered FRFR wedge, just like how I'd dial in a conventional amp/cabinet. Make sure to give it enough volume, and from there you're depending on your engineer to make tweaks to accommodate for differences in frequency response and sound pressure of the FOH system.

Many of the places we play have their own system and engineer, and for the rest of them we hire one of a couple different production companies. Dialing things in using my wedge at least gives me a fixed target and ensures that what I'm hearing will be fairly consistent for me regardless of the other variables. I don't dial things in at ear-bleeding levels, but not at bedroom levels either. Above 75-80dB or so, the overall contour of Fletcher-Munson doesn't vary a ton, at least not in the ranges where guitar is primarily focused.
Click to expand...
I’m pretty happy with the built-in presets of the Helix, but whenever I go off “exploring”, I always get that “blanket over the cabinet” sound. Folks always advocate aftermarket IRs, but I got hundreds of them from a buddy and with the new Helix update, the stock cabs sound much better. I know there’s something wrong I’m doing in the EQ, it has to be because it’s the common thread from patch to patch. Just not sure I know what it is.
 
My best luck for home use was studio monitors. Your FOH feed is going to need to be tweaked to the room from the board anyway. No reason to be using an overpowered PA when it's not needed.
 
I get it, I always brought my own stage monitor when I was using modeling. In the end I figured amps were no heavier or bulkier at that point but I got great tones out of the Helix and AXE when I was using em--great tools indeed
 
TheGreatGreen said:
There should be no inherent differences between PA speakers and studio monitors. They both try to produce the flattest cleanest signal possible. However, if they're budget built, PA speakers are going to prioritize high volume at the expense of sound quality, whereas monitors will prioritize sound quality at the expense of volume (and they often don't do either all that well). If you get quality stuff though, you shouldn't have to worry about it.

Volume is a factor though, fletcher-munson, etc. The "best" way to dial in your sound would be to tweak in the exact environment and conditions in which you're going to be performing, so whatever you can do to get your rig to that point is probably best.

Personally I like Atomic CLRs for FRFR because they're basically idealized PA speakers... or "studio monitors" that can get loud enough for gigs. They're expensive though, but imo worth it.
Click to expand...
While i get it in theory, there is a HUGE difference between my KRK's and what my Kemper sounds like through the mains
 
ewill52 said:
While i get it in theory, there is a HUGE difference between my KRK's and what my Kemper sounds like through the mains
Click to expand...

That's exactly my point. PA speakers and studio monitors should sound identical, but due to budgetary constraints, they often do not. I meant to imply that there should be no inherent differences to the tech in that sense, meaning that "PA speakers" and "studio monitors" are basically the same technology. This is different than the difference between PA speakers and guitar cabs, which is how most of us on guitar forums are used to framing these kinds of conversations, where the tech is entirely different from top to bottom.
 
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I use powered PA speakers, Alto 15" and 18" sub; in the guitar modelers I cut the lows and highs. I use this system with a few of my keyboards as well.

I also use a Roland Cube Street Ex when I don't want the volume of the PA. Works great, sounds great.

Added bonus, I can hear and compare my modeler patches in different systems
 
Nah, tweak your shit through a decently balanced home system, not a PA, and leave it to the soundguy at the gig to fit that particular room. There are absolutely NO truly flat response PA speakers or FRFR cabinets out there, and the simple fact of having loud volumes in a room will completely changed your perception of tone. It will sound different everywhere you go. There are some basic tricks to get more or less a decent sound across the board, but I've had much better translation results from tweaking with EQ-corrected open back headphones than other monitoring options, INCLUDING having a nicely treated room/studio. Do some simple shelving/passing on the extreme lows and highs and only small cuts at problem frequencies at most. Keep in mind that frequencies that offend you at low/moderate volumes and playing solo are completely different than how guitar sounds get treated at the gig. Studio tricks and sound guy tricks are not the same thing at all. I've even found that sometimes a more raw sounding/not fucked with IR works much better on stage, while when recording I like IRs that are much brighter and sometimes already have some pre-mixed sort of qualities to them. For instance, instead of using Ownhammer's mixes, sometimes the same IR pack with have more raw files of simple SM57 only, or classic pairings like 57/121 57/184 etc, and since those have been fucked with less than the mix files, sometimes are a better option for gigging and are often a tad darker than the mixed IRs.
 
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