Mark VII vs IV vs IIC+ vs IIB comparo project!

GJgo

GJgo

Well-known member
GUYS!! Ok I’m working on a tone and feels comparo YT vid for my channel that’s in the planning stages right now. My goal will be to involve the members of this group so that I bring to the table what people want to experience.

I have a IIB and a IIC+. I have a IV on the way thanks to @Tone Monster !! I need to borrow, rent, or if that doesn’t work out buy a VII so I can do a proper comparo of all the gain modes against the OGs. Throwing that out there in case anyone has a resource to share…

I have active and passive guitars plus various speaker cabs so I’ll be able to dive deep with the comparisons, and since I’ve owned all Marks but the 1 I believe I’ll be able to give a good descriptive rundown.

Let’s start the process of weighing in now. More to come!!
 
peterc52 said:
iPhone recordings too. I like them.
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If there are no iphone recordings, it's pretty straightforward to emulate one.

Just take a tone that has actually been recorded well and add a short room reverb set to 100% wet, then use EQ to cut out all the lows and highs. For even more realism, boost the low mids until you can only just barely make out what notes are being played. Done!
 
TheGreatGreen said:
If there are no iphone recordings, it's pretty straightforward to emulate one.

Just take a tone that has actually been recorded well and add a short room reverb set to 100% wet, then use EQ to cut out all the lows and highs. For even more realism, boost the low mids until you can only just barely make out what notes are being played. Done!
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Haha. Yeah, there are some really bad clips out there but I actually like a well-done room recording. It can give a good sense of how the amp really sounds when you're playing it. Most of us don't listen with our ears one inch from the cab :)
 
glassjaw7 said:
Haha. Yeah, there are some really bad clips out there but I actually like a well-done room recording. It can give a good sense of how the amp really sounds when you're playing it. Most of us don't listen with our ears one inch from the cab :)
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The thing is that listening to a recording of a $0.25 microphone placed 15 feet away from a cab, that is 99% of the time not even facing that cab, never sounds like what the amp actually sounds like in the room either though.

“In the room” sound doesn’t really exist in that sense. Whatever you’re hearing in the room, move your head an inch in any direction and that sound changes completely.

I dunno, I realize I’m probably rig-ralk’s broken record “cell phone recordings sound terrible“ guy, but to this day I have never heard a single recording that accurately captures what it sounds like to hear a rig as if you were in the room with it.
 
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Agreed. Please no iPhone clips. That really cheapens the vibe. And they don't do any better representation of the sound in the room either. JMO.

glassjaw7 said:
Most of us don't listen with our ears one inch from the cab :)
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Agreed, but the majority of the people is either going to end up listening to these amps either in a recording, or in a live show mic'd.
 
Rex Rocker said:
Agreed. Please no iPhone clips. That really cheapens the vibe. And they don't do any better representation of the sound in the room either. JMO.


Agreed, but the majority of the people is either going to end up listening to these amps either in a recording, or in a live show mic'd.
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I'll likely do a variety of recording styles to be thorough and here's why. A well placed iPhone clip can get REASONABLY close to what it sounds like in the room, where a close mic clip will NEVER represent what it sounds like in the room. Of course, as soon as you talk about recording for a mix the opposite is true- a mic in the room is junk (for high gain) and a close mic is where it's at.

Example- the Wizard MTL I had exhibited MASSIVE low end chunk, however every attempt I made at a close mic clip sounded like fizzy shit. The only decent clip I got of the thing was this iPhone clip. This was a very good representation of the room tone.



....Compared to a close mic attempt. (that sucked, honestly. I know now why all Wiz clips are so underwhelming)



Here are a couple more that, having been the guy in the room, were pretty accurate representations of the actual experience of sitting there.





 
GJgo said:
I'll likely do a variety of recording styles to be thorough and here's why. A well placed iPhone clip can get REASONABLY close to what it sounds like in the room, where a close mic clip will NEVER represent what it sounds like in the room. Of course, as soon as you talk about recording for a mix the opposite is true- a mic in the room is junk (for high gain) and a close mic is where it's at.

Nailed it. A well placed Iphone clip definitely has it’s place and purpose.
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Moving the cell phone around the room can get a decent result; although they are usually way brighter on the recording than they are in the room. But some pro clips can sound muffled, and lack much clarity. It's really a trial and error process from what I can tell, when I listen to clips of certain amps that don't sound anything like the amp in question...at least in my experience....and that's with a 57 with nice recording software. Vs a phone clip that can sound much better. Capturing these amps well is a challenge.
 
GJgo said:
I'll likely do a variety of recording styles to be thorough and here's why. A well placed iPhone clip can get REASONABLY close to what it sounds like in the room, where a close mic clip will NEVER represent what it sounds like in the room. Of course, as soon as you talk about recording for a mix the opposite is true- a mic in the room is junk (for high gain) and a close mic is where it's at.

Example- the Wizard MTL I had exhibited MASSIVE low end chunk, however every attempt I made at a close mic clip sounded like fizzy shit. The only decent clip I got of the thing was this iPhone clip. This was a very good representation of the room tone.



....Compared to a close mic attempt. (that sucked, honestly. I know now why all Wiz clips are so underwhelming)



Here are a couple more that, having been the guy in the room, were pretty accurate representations of the actual experience of sitting there.





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I didn't think the Wizard mic'd clip was too bad. I preferred it, personally. Sounded like a bright mic'd amp that would cut well and sit well in a mix to me. But yeah, if an amp doesn't mic up well, it's personally not an amp I'd be interested in. Especially, like I said, because 95% of the time, people are going to be listening to either a recording or your amp mic'd up at shows. Kinda like VH4's. At least for the stuff I play. Or maybe I haven't researched VH4's hard enough, who knows.

And also about your iPhone clips, yeah, they're not the worst. You seem to know what you're doing. I think the worst are when people are moving the phone around and the sound is like there's an erratic phaser going on at all times. Or when the phone has a mic level automatic thing and the sound is pumping as if there was a compressor squashing it all the time. Or the ones where there isn't a level thing, and there's clipping going on at all times. So much can go wrong. Also, for me, hearing the acoustic strumming of the strings over the amp is kind of a vibe killer.

But it's your clips, and you're doing them, man. It's cool that you're trying to satisfy what other people are asking for as well.

Don't feel attacked either. I'm just expressing my opinion. But if iPhone clips work for you, and you're doing them, well, it's your clips!
 
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I automatically turn off any phone audio clips I come across on YouTube.

Just posting here to get the updates!
 
Ultimately, I prefer mic'd clips. Especially if you're talking about hearing more subtle differences. However, I totally understand that getting a good mic'd tone is a bit maddening at times. Your room acoustics can fool you and then on top of that small mic placement and eq changes can have a dramatic affect on the tone.
 
I was over at my sound engineer's today. He's going to let me borrow his Radial DI boxes so in addition to "live" close mic & phone room clips I will also be able to fully reamp one of my band's songs using all the amps in question, which I believe will cover a ton of bases depending on what guys are looking for. This particular song has cleans, heavy rhythms & leads so many bases will be covered. Getting excited!
 
Looking forward to this comparison. Thanks for your work, GJgo! Been lingering after a Mk IV a while and will be interesting to see how it stacks up!
 
GJgo said:
I'll likely do a variety of recording styles to be thorough and here's why. A well placed iPhone clip can get REASONABLY close to what it sounds like in the room, where a close mic clip will NEVER represent what it sounds like in the room. Of course, as soon as you talk about recording for a mix the opposite is true- a mic in the room is junk (for high gain) and a close mic is where it's at.

Example- the Wizard MTL I had exhibited MASSIVE low end chunk, however every attempt I made at a close mic clip sounded like fizzy shit. The only decent clip I got of the thing was this iPhone clip. This was a very good representation of the room tone.



....Compared to a close mic attempt. (that sucked, honestly. I know now why all Wiz clips are so underwhelming)



Here are a couple more that, having been the guy in the room, were pretty accurate representations of the actual experience of sitting there.





Click to expand...

I don't think I've ever heard a Wizard clip that made me go "wow, that sounds awesome!" They all sound lacking to me and certainly don't sound as good as their price tag suggests. I was interested in the MTL for a while, then I listened to some clips and that killed the GAS.
 
anomaly said:
I don't think I've ever heard a Wizard clip that made me go "wow, that sounds awesome!" They all sound lacking to me and certainly don't sound as good as their price tag suggests. I was interested in the MTL for a while, then I listened to some clips and that killed the GAS.
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Agree 100%. I don’t doubt the consensus that they sound massive in the room, but I haven’t heard a single clip that makes me want one.
 
Beyond Black said:
Agree 100%. I don’t doubt the consensus that they sound massive in the room, but I haven’t heard a single clip that makes me want one.
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I’ve had a MTL Mk2 in the room and used it through a Suhr Reactive Load. Couldn’t get a sound out of it that I liked. Wizards just aren’t for me. Don’t bother if you haven’t heard any clips that you liked, b/c it doesn’t get any better in person.

*The* most overhyped amps on the planet imo. If they weren’t so expensive maybe they wouldn’t be.
 
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