Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
I love my dual . It’s does the amazing skins that crushes , but it only does this one thing lol . Literally keep it for that one tone
Replacement for DSL
- Thread starter Melodeath
- Start date
firejack
Well-known member
I've never owned or played an SLO, so I can't really compare there. But I can say that the Juno had more of a Recto-ish low end that I could not dial out without making the amp sound thin and stifled. Much like yourself I just can't get along with Recto type amps. I can't explain why. I hear others play them and sound amazing. But my gear and playing style just don't seem to fit them.
The original Peters I had was a gem. It was a 2008 Dual Channel Halo/Gryphon 50W. I stupidly sold it to get another Peters amp with some features that weren't available on my 2008 model. The newer Peters I replaced it with just didn't have the same magic as that first 2008 Halo/Gryphon. The 2008 Halo/Gryphon had a juiced up Marshall vibe with a thick mean growl. Kicking the front end with a TS style boost while using a detuned guitar brought out a guttural beast tone that I've been searching for ever since.
The Landry LS50G3 is another cool amp I've owned that sits in that modded Marshall camp. Not as nice a clean as the Peters Halo clean on the 2008 Dual Channel I had, but it was still an above average clean channel. I liked the high-gain channel on the Landry better than the Juno high-gain. But preferred the Juno cleans over the Landry cleans.
I've since settled on a Hermansson-modded Marshall 1959HW for my extreme high-gain tones. This thing gets me almost dead on to my boosted Peters Gryphon tone. It's an absolute beast of an amp. I also have a Red Plate Magica on order. I mainly ordered it for it's clean and low gain capabilities, but also for less brutal Marshall tones. It should be completed in the next month or so. Might be worth looking into as well.
From what I hear from other forums and reviews of the Juno, it seems to have sort of mixed reviews which kind of worries me. Most of the recording sound pretty good to me, but I'm thinking there are other amps out there to better cover the multi channel aggressive Marshall thing. I keep getting pulled back by all of the tone shaping options and responsive EQ.
I almost want to just pull the trigger on a Peters Fire Hammer, but I'm a bit worried about resale value and having to take a heavy loss if I don't like it. Also, yet another amp lacking in online content. People seem to love them on forums if they have played one though.
DanTravis62
Well-known member
if there's anything gear forum related I know about, it's the "aggressive marshall thing" amp hunt. Many others here do, as well.
And in the end, when everyone gets done with their search, pretty much everyone ends up in a couple of different camps based on what sound they're going for, and their personal playing style.
Those camps seem to be:
1. Stock marshall+ the right pedal for your style
2. Modded Marshall ala Hermannsson/Monomyth/Morin/Langner/Cameron etc or even modding one yourself ala Dave or glp
3. Bogner, SLO, Larry, Wizard, Naylor, Steavens, etc depending on style and gain needs
If I were you, i'd save up a bit longer and just grab a wizard mtl, since that's what you said would be ideal. Or hunt down a used one.
What ends up happening 90% of the time, is that you end up losing a bunch of money flipping over and over searching for a slightly less expensive amp, that does what the expensive amp you know you want does.
Now, it's possible a Juno or a Peters could be it for you, and you're part of the 10% - but there's endless stories of people going down this rabbit hole, and the numbers are the numbers man. Both are great amps, but quite a bit more modern.
Just my 2 cents.
I absolutely love KSR I bought my 4x12 from them and just ordered another 2x12 they also make Wizards cabs. I think where people get let down on the Juno is they expect it to be a hot rodded Marshall which it isn't.
But I totally agree on whatever you end up having your heart set on don't settle. You end up saving much more money getting it right the first time. I sold my 6505+ and cab to get a Kemper thinking this will be exactly like having all the amps I wanted which was dumb.
I sold my Monomyth modded 1974 superlead cause my car broke down and I thought I could just get a JJ Jr. and it would be just as good after all I'm playing at home. I was completely wrong. Having the Kemper did teach me that there really are just a couple unique amp tones that I go for. A modded Marshall, a Mesa Mark series, a 5150 flavor, a KSR tone and maybe maybe some Orange flavored for doom/stoner metal. So I eventually had that but then had to move on short notice and I have spent the past 2 years trying to get that back.
I went from a monomyth 2204, a pv5150, mark iv, ksr Orthos to a monomyth skeleton key, ksr ares, pv6505, and the mark iv. Unfortunately I tried to buy other stuff for costs or convenience and lost money. I'm finally back to a point where I'm satisfied. Unless I get a Wizard or Larry I'm not g.a.s'n. I will likely add a used dual or single rec next year unless I have a really good year.
But I totally agree on whatever you end up having your heart set on don't settle. You end up saving much more money getting it right the first time. I sold my 6505+ and cab to get a Kemper thinking this will be exactly like having all the amps I wanted which was dumb.
I sold my Monomyth modded 1974 superlead cause my car broke down and I thought I could just get a JJ Jr. and it would be just as good after all I'm playing at home. I was completely wrong. Having the Kemper did teach me that there really are just a couple unique amp tones that I go for. A modded Marshall, a Mesa Mark series, a 5150 flavor, a KSR tone and maybe maybe some Orange flavored for doom/stoner metal. So I eventually had that but then had to move on short notice and I have spent the past 2 years trying to get that back.
I went from a monomyth 2204, a pv5150, mark iv, ksr Orthos to a monomyth skeleton key, ksr ares, pv6505, and the mark iv. Unfortunately I tried to buy other stuff for costs or convenience and lost money. I'm finally back to a point where I'm satisfied. Unless I get a Wizard or Larry I'm not g.a.s'n. I will likely add a used dual or single rec next year unless I have a really good year.
Racerxrated
Well-known member
Only 1 person stated the obvious…if you like the DSL tone, get a better sounding Marshall. Wizards are great amps, the MC100 I had did a pretty amazing Marshall tone but still was a little different in the mids. 3K will get you any JMP/JCM you want(short of an early 70s SL/50w) which will smoke any DSL. Sorry DSL guys, just stating the facts. The DSL does a decent enough Marshall tone but they don’t compare to the real deal. Someone mentioned ‘reliability’ with a JMP/JCM? Unless you don’t know what you are doing, or have an incompetent tech reliability ain’t an issue.
Don’t waste your money on something that’s ‘almost’ a Marshall. You’ll just sell it and try the next ‘Marshally’ amp that doesn’t get you there. Jubilee reissue, 2203x, both have great loops. A vintage version can have a metro loop installed easily. Or, grab a Fryette power station to add a loop plus more.
Don’t waste your money on something that’s ‘almost’ a Marshall. You’ll just sell it and try the next ‘Marshally’ amp that doesn’t get you there. Jubilee reissue, 2203x, both have great loops. A vintage version can have a metro loop installed easily. Or, grab a Fryette power station to add a loop plus more.
I don't think stock Marshalls are "it", and I don't think a Marshall is going to give me the flexibility that I'm looking for. Maybe a JVM would, but the sounds I've heard from them are mediocre to me.
I'm not so worried about it being perfectly true to a genuine Marshall sound either. Just in that family. I really just don't want a recto/Mesa style sound. As long as it is raw, open/uncompressed and articulate, and lots of mids on tap.
I think I have some direction now. I'm highly considering a Peters (probably Fire Hammer). I think by the sounds of it, I will get along great with one of those. If not, I'm probably just going to bite the bullet and sell the Peters and my Marshall for a Wizard
easstudios
Well-known member
I have about 10 vintage Marshalls and love them - they’re reliable and rarely have issues. What I mean by it is - if you buy a vintage Marshall, you’ll likely need to replace filter caps, buy new valves, replace/check the bias circuit. Then you have to decide if you want to take your amp to rehearsals/gigs and risk devaluing it. The transformers and caps were never anything too special, they have a sound and work but it’s really just what was available to them. They were never about making something that was “high end”.
There’s also the whole thing of deciding if you want to mod an old amp - I have no need for clean channels or FX loops or anything but for a lot of people, they’d rather have those features when spending that amount of money. Not sure I agree on the reissue Marshall loops being good, they can get the job done depending on what you use in them but they’re not on the level of LND150/Metro style loops (can be upgraded mind).
I also think DSL’s can absolutely sound as good as any Marshall - they’re not as nice to own, but I’m often surprised how much they win shootouts in the studio when I always expect the vintage amps to crush them. They can be a bit finicky to dial in (it would be much better if both channels had a wider gain taper). I posted clips showing a DSL not sounding any worse than a 1977 JMP 2203 or a Friedman BE100 - blanket statements like “Amp A will SMOKE Amp B” are pointless with no context and it’s always easy to say “the expensive less available amp sounds way better than the cheap one that everyone can get” rather than actually showing it. Don’t get me wrong - I love the JMP and Friedman more than the DSL, but it’s got nothing to do with the tone lacking. They’re just cooler things to own.
I agree with most of what you say though, although I think the OP has reached a sensible decision with what they’re doing now anyway.
RaceU4her
Well-known member
i made this same argument in another thread recently, i busted out my DSL after not playing it for a while when the tube scare started thinking i usually only play for 10-15 minutes at a time right now, ill use the DSL and save the tubes in my "better" amps. yeah, its not a very "sexy" amp and id still rather play my other amps just on that alone, but i would be lying if i said it wasnt right there tone wise with any other amp i have. im not sure why it surprises me, ive watched bands from bars to arenas of every genre sound amazing with them. i have a 12at7 that in v1 is supposed to widen the gain taper, i havent tried it yet though
Racerxrated
Well-known member
Wizard MCI or II would be my recommendation then. The MTL I had, the mids were strange. And it hated boosts; the MC took them just fine. The Wizards can be a bit dry(though not as dry as a VHT) and a boost can add some ‘grease’ so to speak.
Racerxrated
Well-known member
DSLs are decent amps, and anyone would be fine n happy gigging one if a Marshall is what you want. To some, maybe you, there isn’t much difference between any tube Marshall. Some don’t hear the difference in tubes when tube rolling. Or types of wood used between guitars, pickups etc etc. For me, what is a small difference to you may be a large difference to me. For instance everyone loves a good 2303/4 with a boost..it’s a tried and True Tone combo that still shines today. I had a great sounding 1983 2203, with GE 6550s. Killer amp. Scored a 1972 SuperTrem…stock…and then I realized, after boosting it why so many pros used these amps stock for years. It absolutely blew the doors off my 2203. Sold the 2203.
For me I notice the small differences; and some that may be small to many here are huge to me anyway. I wish I didn’t hear the differences like I do; I’d have saved a shit ton of cash over the years!
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easstudios
Well-known member
I totally believe you can hear the small differences, but I’m also confident in my own ability to test gear thoroughly and hopefully objectively in a studio environment in the most scientific way I can.No
DSLs are decent amps, and anyone would be fine n happy gigging one if a Marshall is what you want. To some, maybe you, there isn’t much difference between any tube Marshall. Some don’t hear the difference in tubes when tube rolling. Or types of wood used between guitars, pickups etc etc. For me, what is a small difference to you may be a large difference to me. For instance everyone loves a good 2303/4 with a boost..it’s a tried and True Tone combo that still shines today. I had a great sounding 1983 2203, with GE 6550s. Killer amp. Scored a 1972 SuperTrem…stock…and then I realized, after boosting it why so many pros used these amps stock for years. It absolutely blew the doors off my 2203. Sold the 2203.
For me I notice the small differences; and some that may be small to many here are huge to me anyway. I wish I didn’t hear the differences like I do; I’d have saved a shit ton of cash over the years!
I also obsess over the small details and try to understand everything I possibly can. It’s for that reason that I don’t believe in any gear having any magic to it - it’s a sum of the parts and the circuit is always the most important aspect.
Everyone is more than entitled to like whatever gear they want, but saying “this is better than this” is only opinion. I’m not saying a DSL is identical to any other Marshall - they have their own vibe, but they’re versatile enough to get close to several models (which was clearly one of the intentions of the design). You may not like them as much as other amps, but I genuinely believe they can sound just as good (as in sometimes a better fit, sometimes worse) - and that’s been proven time and time again. They have a reputation for being workhorses in many studios.
Does a SLO sound better than a 5150 or Rectifier? It’s just opinion - they all sound good and have appeared on many famous recordings. Everyone has their preference and of course they’re built to different budgets and constraints. But there is no better. Liking a DSL doesn’t make older or more expensive amps any worse.
Racerxrated
Well-known member
I hear ya, but I will never agree that a DSL can sound just as good as a good, healthy 2203/4 or certainly not a stock NMV with a boost. I’ve played enough of them on back lines, rentals and have owned a couple to know what they offer. DSLs can sound good enough, for many pros to leave their more valuable vintage Marshalls at home. But none of those guys (Beck, Bonamassa, etc) are selling their Marshall collection.
easstudios
Well-known member
I think we mostly agree tbh, but just as a final point. I had the exact same opinion as you about a DSL lacking a certain magic that my old 1977 JMP 2203 has. That 2203 is my favourite amp and I always held that amp in special regard (and still do).
So when I tried to see how close I can get to my favourite kind of 2203 tone (with a boost and dialled in how I like it), I was really surprised how similar the DSL sounded. I wouldn't have assumed it was possible until I actually spent some time dialling it in and comparing in a studio environment. The clip I posted above was just DSL Green channel + boost compared to a stock (but well maintained and recapped) 2203 with the same boost. Just because they can sound near identical, it doesn't mean I'm selling the 2203 - I still way prefer owning that one. I can think of many instances in the studio when we've compared amps and the DSL beats the 2203 - it can do things the 2203 can't and sometimes (but not always) that's what you need. One doesn't invalidate the other, but I find it reassuring to be objective about this stuff rather than letting our emotions decide what sounds best. Perhaps for those who don't work in a studio environment every day, being objective is less important and its nicer to fall in love with certain gear. Its totally fine and acceptable, but I think without demonstrating these big claims, it can make people believe that affordable amps will never sound as good as expensive ones which is just totally not true.
I I needed a 2203 tone and didn't want to lug around an amp that is going up and up in value and down in availability, I'd be totally cool with rocking a DSL for that purpose. I agree that it wouldn't do a non MV SL type sound so well, but I think its pretty close for the 2203 thing, and the Red Channel 1 more than holds its own for a "modded plexi" type sound.
I know this is an old post. (Sorry I'm not on here much) but I figured I would update. I ended up going with a Splawn Quickrod. All I have to say is HOLY SHIT. This thing has some balls compared to the DSL. Also way more usable gain. Plenty of gain for even modern metal imo, especially with a boost. The clarity is great too. I have to say that I'm pretty happy overall. I will definitely continue to add to my collection.
griff10672
Well-known member
I would grab a Bogner Shiva 20th ......