Gary Holt/Brent Gutierrez Langner Mod preamp

[stinkfeet]

So, this summer, I very luckily got some gut shots of one of Brent Gutierrez's modded amps from a very awesome guy. So I was able to make a good scheme for it. I finally got some free time to wrap everything up on this killer preamp I built on a tight budget.

This is a wicked circuit, as you can imagine. The only changes I've made are adding a tone stack switch to go from 270p/56k to 33k/470p, and a switch that changes the last voltage divider. I mainly just leave it in the normal position. Remarkably, for having 5 gain stages and no gate, it's dead quiet when I plug straight in. This is one of the first amplifiers I have ever plugged into, and didn't instantly think that it could use a boost. It retains the bottom end pretty well, with a pretty usable taper on the gain pot. It starts with a nice AC/DC lowish-gain crunch around 2.5 and quickly starts to bring you into fire-breathing territory around 4.5. 4.5 to 6.5 is prime thrash territory. Past 6.5, it starts getting thicker and stops being too usable around 8. You can put a boost in front of it and make it even tighter, but it doesn't work well with all of them. A regular SD1 or TS9 works the best.

It is a little picky with pickups. My EMG 81x wasn't the greatest, but with my Duncan Custom, like what Holt used for a while, it just rips! Surprisingly, when I tried Holt's settings, he said in an interview, it tightened it up a good bit over my typical B:4, M:5-6, T:6.
Here's the quote: "Oh yeah, JCM 800 settings, let me see. Bass, around 7, mids around 3, treble around 5, presence around 4, my gain about 6(remember, my {censored} is modded, so they have tons of gain), and master goes to 11!"

I'll post the Google Drive link if anyone wants to check out the demos. Fair warning, though it's been a while since I picked up my guitar, and the playing is fairly sloppy.
The NAM demos are just an 800 power amp capture with the Mustaine V30 IR. The in room demos are going through my 5150 iconic's power amp with my '80s randall 4x12 loaded with Late 90s V30s and 2019 G12H30s in an X pattern.
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1pfFkWIXELL9FYHFZS8u6oW3XB1u8dx1X

 

[FourT6and2]

Yeah Langner's version is a cool circuit. Not sure what Gutierrez's take on it is though. How close is it to what Langner did?

EDIT: Oh wait, replied to you over on SLOClone

 

[stinkfeet]

Yeah Langner's version is a cool circuit. Not sure what Gutierrez's take on it is though. How close is it to what Langner did?

This should be exactly or at least very close to what Gary Holt had in his 800 he had modded by Langner in '89. It's pretty close to a regular Langner design. It's the one I posted on that other form a little while ago.

 

[Juggernaut]

Who's amp did you get the pics of?

 

[Juggernaut]

None of those amps are an exact copy of Gary's amp, even Lee (Altus), his amp had some changes done to it. As was my old one and Corpses.

 

[stinkfeet]

Who's amp did you get the pics of?

Thrashinbatman's, I was helping him figure out why his was so mushy, I'm pretty sure it's the preamp voltage since mine is tight asf, but he hasn't tried it with the change yet. Could you allude to what the differences are? I could DM the scheme if you want to check it out.

 

[Juggernaut]

Sure, send it... changes made were made per amp, each amp done reacted differently to the mod, so changed were made depending on the amp.

 

[stinkfeet]

I guess i don't have enough posts on rig talk to PM you yet. Is there another place that would work?

 

[Juggernaut]

Sent you one

 

[stinkfeet]

Sweet, Thanks!

 

[FourT6and2]

Each actual Langner I've seen had small differences here or there depending on three things:

1. If the donor was dark or bright or loose or tight, etc., he'd make small tweaks to get it sounding right.
2. The client's goals.
3. How motivated Langner was feeling in the moment. If the donor was a Super Bass, he probably wouldn't change to lead spec. unless client asked.

Beyond that, they were all in the general ballpark of each other, including the DCP-1. However, I do prefer the sound of the Marshall mods compared to the DCP-1.

The version I build that's faithful to my favorite original Langner mod is juicy in the mids, fairly firm in the low end for stock Marshall filtering and voltages, and has a wicked bite and mid-range grind. Can be overly bright if you push the treble too high, and can be wooly if you don't push the presence or mids enough. But in the sweet spot, it's incredible. That particular amp is one I had to restore back to how Langner did it after a bunch of other techs/modders changed things.

The version I build for myself, and other people who like more of a modern response compared to "old school" thrash, has more filtering, higher voltages, and a few other tweaks to various parts of the circuit to yield an angrier, tighter, more pissed off vibe compared to the OG mod. But they're both still in the same ballpark.

I've seen schematics for all sorts of other versions, including the 4-stagers, and they are just different. I've heard clips of them too. They just aren't my cup o' tea compared to these other two.

IMO, after building about 10 of these for people and tweaking my personal amp in all sorts of ways, I think the low-pass filters, voltages, and filtering are probably what separate the good amps from the great.

 

[Racerxrated]

Each actual Langner I've seen had small differences here or there depending on three things:

1. If the donor was dark or bright or loose or tight, etc., he'd make small tweaks to get it sounding right.
2. The client's goals.
3. How motivated Langner was feeling in the moment. If the donor was a Super Bass, he probably wouldn't change to lead spec. unless client asked.

Beyond that, they were all in the general ballpark of each other, including the DCP-1. However, I do prefer the sound of the Marshall mods compared to the DCP-1.

The version I build that's faithful to my favorite original Langner mod is juicy in the mids, fairly firm in the low end for stock Marshall filtering and voltages, and has a wicked bite and mid-range grind. Can be overly bright if you push the treble too high, and can be wooly if you don't push the presence or mids enough. But in the sweet spot, it's incredible. That particular amp is one I had to restore back to how Langner did it after a bunch of other techs/modders changed things.

The version I build for myself, and other people who like more of a modern response compared to "old school" thrash, has more filtering, higher voltages, and a few other tweaks to various parts of the circuit to yield an angrier, tighter, more pissed off vibe compared to the OG mod. But they're both still in the same ballpark.

I've seen schematics for all sorts of other versions, including the 4-stagers, and they are just different. I've heard clips of them too. They just aren't my cup o' tea compared to these other two.

IMO, after building about 10 of these for people and tweaking my personal amp in all sorts of ways, I think the low-pass filters, voltages, and filtering are probably what separate the good amps from the great.

My 72 that you did still blows my mind every time I play it.

I used to say the Camerons had the best feel, grind....the Langner mod kills that notion. The feel is off the charts, and is the easiest amp I've ever played, with the noise level incredibly low for a 5 gain stage amp.

Amazing amp!

 

[Fusionbear]

My 72 that you did still blows my mind every time I play it.

I used to say the Camerons had the best feel, grind....the Langner mod kills that notion. The feel is off the charts, and is the easiest amp I've ever played, with the noise level incredibly low for a 5 gain stage amp.

Amazing amp!

My experience as well!

 

[jabps]

My 72 that you did still blows my mind every time I play it.

I used to say the Camerons had the best feel, grind....the Langner mod kills that notion. The feel is off the charts, and is the easiest amp I've ever played, with the noise level incredibly low for a 5 gain stage amp.

Amazing amp!

Feel. Good point about that with the Langners. Both of my Langner Pre's and even my modded by Todd ADA felt great. Very easy to play, didn't fight me. It's one of the main things I look for in an amp and why I've stuck with my JVM's for so long. It's just easy "for me" to play on them. I'd love to revisit Todd's stuff one day. Feel very lucky I owned what I did and spoke with him several times when I ordered my second Pre and what I wanted. He was a great guy, never rushed me. I paid $400 for both his Pre's lol, and like $300 bills for the ADA, crazy. Running those things through my Peavey Stereo Classic 120 w/ presence and resonance power amp, massive sounding.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

My experience as well!

Same here. Sick fuckin amp. Top 3 for me. I listed mine because of tough times that hit, but I haven't had it in me to bump it. Trying to hang on.

 

[thrashinbatman]

yeah, it was my amp! stinkfeet reached out to me about seeing the internals right around the time i was looking around getting some work done on it because it wasn't sounding the way i wanted it to. the preamp he built sounds sick, though i cant say for sure how much it sounds like a Langner or even my amp, i've only heard the couple clips he has here of it. i havent gotten a chance to make the modifications that stinkfeet had suggested, but i've been slow rolling getting anything done regarding the amp.

 

[fedrek]

Hey everyone, I think everyone here knows me, as I've spoken to many of you about this particular Langner. My friend bought it from @Juggernaut , and if I remember correctly, someone told me whose amp it was before, and I think they told me it belonged to Brent's best friend. I've spoken to @Bloodrock , @Exo-metal, and @rottingcorpse about this mod and watched a lot of videos. It seems to me that the problem with my friend's amp isn't just that it's mushy, it lacks the characteristic midrange growl(bark) and aggression, it's very dark instead of bright. I found the highly respected @FourT6and2 to do his own mod on a turret board in a Ceriatone chassis, and I think we'll stop there. Very funny and odd to see how a single amp was and still is a part of not one life but many and how by messaging many different people I basically felt like I talked to just one.

 

[Juggernaut]

Hey everyone, I think everyone here knows me, as I've spoken to many of you about this particular Langner. My friend bought it from @Juggernaut , and if I remember correctly, someone told me whose amp it was before, and I think they told me it belonged to Brent's best friend. I've spoken to @Bloodrock , @Exo-metal, and @rottingcorpse about this mod and watched a lot of videos. It seems to me that the problem with my friend's amp isn't just that it's mushy, it lacks the characteristic midrange growl(bark) and aggression, it's very dark instead of bright. I found the highly respected @FourT6and2 to do his own mod on a turret board in a Ceriatone chassis, and I think we'll stop there. Very funny and odd to see how a single amp was and still is a part of not one life but many and how by messaging many different people I basically felt like I talked to just one.

Juggernaut & Brent's best friend, same person. that amp was a fucked up stock jcm800 I bought from Brad King who fucked me over on it, ended up having Brent recap the whole thing before doing the mod.