1 4 5 Blues progression

[amiller]

G7 -> C7 -> D7

Keeping it real "simple."

What do you play over this progression? Do you go for the easy Em pentatonic or Em blues pentatonic (b5)? Do you play Mixolydian over each of the changes? Do you do something else altogether?

Discuss

 

[Dallas Marlow]

Honestly "ideally" I'd start by targeting mostly chord tones and using proper voice leading resolutions from chord to chord, for example. I've been slacking off the past two months so I've fallen a bit behind on improving my self in this area so its good you brought it up, I'll have to start practicing this today! Depends really on what kind of moving I'm playing and what context this is over, in jazz you can get away with countless extensions over anything haha... but as a base approach here's what I'd do.

G7 -> C7 -> D7

GBDF over the G7 CEGBb over the C7 and the DF#AC over the D7, the voice leading lets say your going from G7 to C7 you can move by half step from the B to the Bb or B to the C, so you get a smooth transition or you can go from the F to the E. I've been taught that ideally when improvising you want to for the most part try and make your voice leading as smooth as possible, but there are so many other options you can do obviously... sequences, motifs on and on.

It's really all about the manipulation of the half steps and working the transitions well... beyond that you can really use whatever the hell you want as long as you know where it sounds like it should resolve.

The deeper I get the more I get away from thinking in scales, or modes, and simply think of everything in relation to the chord it self regardless of what key or scale I'm playing in. It's really a bitch, but in the long run I think it's the best solution!

 

[degenaro]

G7 -> C7 -> D7

Keeping it real "simple."

What do you play over this progression? Do you go for the easy Em pentatonic or Em blues pentatonic (b5)? Do you play Mixolydian over each of the changes? Do you do something else altogether?

Discuss

If it's a Blues form chances are I use mostly Gm pentatonic....the beauty is that you pretty much can rn that across all 3 chords. That will be the thing that you get the most mileage out of here.
G major pentatonic (E m penta/blues scale) is cool over the G7, especially if you stick the b5 in, since then you get the typical blues minor/major 3rd thing happening from the Bb to B.

If you wanna go deeper approach each chord as it's own entity, which in it's basic form is what you said and use mixolydian.
And anything else that works over a dominant chord, especially when it's functioning...i.e bar 4 when the G7 that was static becomes functioning as a V chord resolving to C...that's where the fun starts. You can stick in Ab melodic Minor (G superlocrian), C harmonic minor (G phrygian dominant), G half-whole, G whole tone, C harmonic major (G mixolydian b9),etc...

 

[mashcottin]

Hello,
The beauty of the thing is that you can play a G minor pentatonic scale all along, it would sound awesome.
Then a lot of possibilities are available like the ones Ed talked about.
I would suggest you to get a hand on one (or all) of the Robben Ford video lessons, it will definitively help a lot.
To sum up the scale used by Robben Ford I would say:
1. Straight Pentatonic minor scale
2. Pentatonic blues scale (with the flatted fifth)
3. Minor Pentatonic with the major sixth (without the minor seventh), in G it would be G Bb C D E G
4. Major Pentatonic
5. The previous one would lead you to the Mixolydian mode, G mixolydian mode on the I chord and C mixo on the IV chord
6. The Superlocrian sounds good on the V chord
7. The diminished scale on any chord (for example G diminished alterning half step and whole step works on both the I and IV, but you'll have to change for D diminished scale on the V chord). The way Robben Ford uses it is generally to go from the I chord to the IV chord, i.e on the fourth bar of the progression.

Master these scales, put some bends and hammer off/pull off and you would sound like a great blues guitarist
One of the most important thing is to come up with your very own licks and patterns, put your personality into it.
Keep in mind that you can, maybe should, blend these scales, combine them. For instance, playing both forms of the third. Historically the third in a blues context is one of the blue notes, it's an african legacy where the third is neither major nor minor. Theorists refer to it as a "neutral" third or a "flexible pitch area". If you listen carefully to any blues guitarist, you may notice that they always put a slighly bend when playing the third of a minor pentatonic, and so does a singer. That's our "flexible pitch area".
I hope this helps,
Have a great time practicing

Cheers from France

 

[amiller]

G7 -> C7 -> D7

Keeping it real "simple."

What do you play over this progression? Do you go for the easy Em pentatonic or Em blues pentatonic (b5)? Do you play Mixolydian over each of the changes? Do you do something else altogether?

Discuss

If it's a Blues form chances are I use mostly Gm pentatonic....the beauty is that you pretty much can rn that across all 3 chords. That will be the thing that you get the most mileage out of here.
G major pentatonic (E m penta/blues scale) is cool over the G7, especially if you stick the b5 in, since then you get the typical blues minor/major 3rd thing happening from the Bb to B.

If you wanna go deeper approach each chord as it's own entity, which in it's basic form is what you said and use mixolydian.
And anything else that works over a dominant chord, especially when it's functioning...i.e bar 4 when the G7 that was static becomes functioning as a V chord resolving to C...that's where the fun starts. You can stick in Ab melodic Minor (G superlocrian), C harmonic minor (G phrygian dominant), G half-whole, G whole tone, C harmonic major (G mixolydian b9),etc...

Great! Some cool things for me to work on.

Here's something to think about. One of my early instructors told be that, while playing lead, when the moves from one chord to the next he tries to find the notes that are NOT common between the two chords, i.e. the notes that give the next chord it's identity. So, if you're moving from the G7 to the C7 what's your first note(s) going to be? Where are you thinking about going when you make that change or ANY movement from one chord to the next...the transition between chords?

 

[degenaro]

G7 -> C7 -> D7

Keeping it real "simple."

What do you play over this progression? Do you go for the easy Em pentatonic or Em blues pentatonic (b5)? Do you play Mixolydian over each of the changes? Do you do something else altogether?

Discuss

If it's a Blues form chances are I use mostly Gm pentatonic....the beauty is that you pretty much can rn that across all 3 chords. That will be the thing that you get the most mileage out of here.
G major pentatonic (E m penta/blues scale) is cool over the G7, especially if you stick the b5 in, since then you get the typical blues minor/major 3rd thing happening from the Bb to B.

If you wanna go deeper approach each chord as it's own entity, which in it's basic form is what you said and use mixolydian.
And anything else that works over a dominant chord, especially when it's functioning...i.e bar 4 when the G7 that was static becomes functioning as a V chord resolving to C...that's where the fun starts. You can stick in Ab melodic Minor (G superlocrian), C harmonic minor (G phrygian dominant), G half-whole, G whole tone, C harmonic major (G mixolydian b9),etc...

Great! Some cool things for me to work on.

Here's something to think about. One of my early instructors told be that, while playing lead, when the moves from one chord to the next he tries to find the notes that are NOT common between the two chords, i.e. the notes that give the next chord it's identity. So, if you're moving from the G7 to the C7 what's your first note(s) going to be? Where are you thinking about going when you make that change or ANY movement from one chord to the next...the transition between chords?

Well the super obvious approach is going bb, b over the tail of the G to c for the C. Or d for the G to eb, e for the C.
If you look at what you need for a minimum of a G7 chord it's f and b the 7th and 3rd, now move that down a half step and you get e and bb, the 3rd and 7th of the C7...lots a milage in that one half step move.

 

[amiller]

G7 -> C7 -> D7

Keeping it real "simple."

What do you play over this progression? Do you go for the easy Em pentatonic or Em blues pentatonic (b5)? Do you play Mixolydian over each of the changes? Do you do something else altogether?

Discuss

If it's a Blues form chances are I use mostly Gm pentatonic....the beauty is that you pretty much can rn that across all 3 chords. That will be the thing that you get the most mileage out of here.
G major pentatonic (E m penta/blues scale) is cool over the G7, especially if you stick the b5 in, since then you get the typical blues minor/major 3rd thing happening from the Bb to B.

If you wanna go deeper approach each chord as it's own entity, which in it's basic form is what you said and use mixolydian.
And anything else that works over a dominant chord, especially when it's functioning...i.e bar 4 when the G7 that was static becomes functioning as a V chord resolving to C...that's where the fun starts. You can stick in Ab melodic Minor (G superlocrian), C harmonic minor (G phrygian dominant), G half-whole, G whole tone, C harmonic major (G mixolydian b9),etc...

Great! Some cool things for me to work on.

Here's something to think about. One of my early instructors told be that, while playing lead, when the moves from one chord to the next he tries to find the notes that are NOT common between the two chords, i.e. the notes that give the next chord it's identity. So, if you're moving from the G7 to the C7 what's your first note(s) going to be? Where are you thinking about going when you make that change or ANY movement from one chord to the next...the transition between chords?

Well the super obvious approach is going bb, b over the tail of the G to c for the C. Or d for the G to eb, e for the C.
If you look at what you need for a minimum of a G7 chord it's f and b the 7th and 3rd, now move that down a half step and you get e and bb, the 3rd and 7th of the C7...lots a milage in that one half step move.

I think I understand, but to be clear, what do you mean by "bb?" Are you saying Bb or double flat? Sorry for my confusion.

 

[degenaro]

G7 -> C7 -> D7

Keeping it real "simple."

What do you play over this progression? Do you go for the easy Em pentatonic or Em blues pentatonic (b5)? Do you play Mixolydian over each of the changes? Do you do something else altogether?

Discuss

If it's a Blues form chances are I use mostly Gm pentatonic....the beauty is that you pretty much can rn that across all 3 chords. That will be the thing that you get the most mileage out of here.
G major pentatonic (E m penta/blues scale) is cool over the G7, especially if you stick the b5 in, since then you get the typical blues minor/major 3rd thing happening from the Bb to B.

If you wanna go deeper approach each chord as it's own entity, which in it's basic form is what you said and use mixolydian.
And anything else that works over a dominant chord, especially when it's functioning...i.e bar 4 when the G7 that was static becomes functioning as a V chord resolving to C...that's where the fun starts. You can stick in Ab melodic Minor (G superlocrian), C harmonic minor (G phrygian dominant), G half-whole, G whole tone, C harmonic major (G mixolydian b9),etc...

Great! Some cool things for me to work on.

Here's something to think about. One of my early instructors told be that, while playing lead, when the moves from one chord to the next he tries to find the notes that are NOT common between the two chords, i.e. the notes that give the next chord it's identity. So, if you're moving from the G7 to the C7 what's your first note(s) going to be? Where are you thinking about going when you make that change or ANY movement from one chord to the next...the transition between chords?

Well the super obvious approach is going bb, b over the tail of the G to c for the C. Or d for the G to eb, e for the C.
If you look at what you need for a minimum of a G7 chord it's f and b the 7th and 3rd, now move that down a half step and you get e and bb, the 3rd and 7th of the C7...lots a milage in that one half step move.

I think I understand, but to be clear, what do you mean by "bb?" Are you saying Bb or double flat? Sorry for my confusion.

Bb.

 

[amiller]

G7 -> C7 -> D7

Keeping it real "simple."

What do you play over this progression? Do you go for the easy Em pentatonic or Em blues pentatonic (b5)? Do you play Mixolydian over each of the changes? Do you do something else altogether?

Discuss

If it's a Blues form chances are I use mostly Gm pentatonic....the beauty is that you pretty much can rn that across all 3 chords. That will be the thing that you get the most mileage out of here.
G major pentatonic (E m penta/blues scale) is cool over the G7, especially if you stick the b5 in, since then you get the typical blues minor/major 3rd thing happening from the Bb to B.

If you wanna go deeper approach each chord as it's own entity, which in it's basic form is what you said and use mixolydian.
And anything else that works over a dominant chord, especially when it's functioning...i.e bar 4 when the G7 that was static becomes functioning as a V chord resolving to C...that's where the fun starts. You can stick in Ab melodic Minor (G superlocrian), C harmonic minor (G phrygian dominant), G half-whole, G whole tone, C harmonic major (G mixolydian b9),etc...

Great! Some cool things for me to work on.

Here's something to think about. One of my early instructors told be that, while playing lead, when the moves from one chord to the next he tries to find the notes that are NOT common between the two chords, i.e. the notes that give the next chord it's identity. So, if you're moving from the G7 to the C7 what's your first note(s) going to be? Where are you thinking about going when you make that change or ANY movement from one chord to the next...the transition between chords?

Well the super obvious approach is going bb, b over the tail of the G to c for the C. Or d for the G to eb, e for the C.
If you look at what you need for a minimum of a G7 chord it's f and b the 7th and 3rd, now move that down a half step and you get e and bb, the 3rd and 7th of the C7...lots a milage in that one half step move.

I think I understand, but to be clear, what do you mean by "bb?" Are you saying Bb or double flat? Sorry for my confusion.

Bb.

OK, now the light bulb just switched on...THANKS. I got something I can mess with for a while.

 

[stephen sawall]

Also notice if you move up from the f and b a half step to f# and c how it fits into the D7.

 

[mashcottin]

Don't foget the tritone substitution, for instance the f# and c of your D chord (3rd and 7th) can be viewed as the 7th and 3rd of an Ab7 chord.
You can use also the chromaticism, moving by half step from one note of a scale to another.
In order to play "out", displacement of the pentatonic pattern a halft step up or down can be very useful. Keep in mind you'll have to choose a target note, a note that will match the following chord.

 

[mashcottin]

One more thing, the minor pentatonic scale does not fully work on the IV chord. So on C7 go for e rather than e flat. Major pentatonic or mixolydian is a better choice, or just stay with G minor pentatonic.

 

[degenaro]

One more thing, the minor pentatonic scale does not fully work on the IV chord. So on C7 go for e rather than e flat. Major pentatonic or mixolydian is a better choice, or just stay with G minor pentatonic.

How so? Just like you don't want to hang on the f note in the G m pentatonic over C7 so you won't want to hang on the b note in the G major pentatonic over C7. Heck given a choice I rather have that.
So lets compare.... G penta over C7 gives you...
minor...g,bb, c, d, f... 5,b7,root, 9, 11, the only lame note is the bland sounding 11, the rest is about as consonant as it gets.

major...g,a,b,d,e...5, 13, 7, 9, 3 the 7 other than a passing tone is gonna be tough to get used to, the 13 is cool

Or were you referring to the C m pentatonic not working for the C7?
Ideally you change with the chords anyways, but we're talking starting points here. Also the majority of the time I hear mixolydian over Blues that isn't 80s LA Smooth Jazz it usually turns into a bad exercise in root running.

 

[mashcottin]

Sorry, my message was not clear, I meant that in a blues in G, playing C minor pentatonic over the IV chord (that is C7) is not a good choice. It would feel like you suddenly change the tonic and play a blues in C. Of course, G minor pentatonic works fine all the way. Also, playing D minor pentatonic over the V chord is fine since it matches the notes of G minor pentatonic.