4x12 CAB COMPARO: Bogner Helios 412 VS Friedman BE-412

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firejack

firejack

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Ok so I've had a few days with the cabs side by side. Here's my thoughts...




- The Bogner is a touch bigger sounding. Not by much, but it is noticeable. Maybe it just seems that way because it disperses the sound a little more than the Friedman.

- Both cabs are very tight, but the Bogner is juicy, bouncy tight whereas the Friedman has a more metal edge. This comes across mostly on palm mutes. The Bogner has a "chunk" in the attack, whereas the Friedman has a "chink". Maybe a better way to describe it is the Friedman's lows are crispy/crunchy whereas the Bogner's lows are warmer/rounder. But both cabs have very nice punch and attack.

- Both cabs have great mids and sound really snarly and mean. But they grind and growl in a slightly different manner. The Friedman sounds like it's higher up in the frequency range than the Bogner's.

- Both cabs have a really cool vocal thing going on in the upper-mids and highs when you play single notes, making them sound very alive and resonant. The Friedman has a little more of this quality than the Bogner, but both cabs do it. Really dig that about these cabs.

- The Bogner sounds more 3D and room-filling. This is where the Bogner wins me over. The Friedman is no slouch, but there's just something extra magical about the way the Bogner breathes. The area where this is most noticeable is on clean tones. The notes pop so clearly with the Bogner. The Friedman's clean tones are still excellent, but they are just a little more restrained for lack of a better word.



I ever so slightly prefer the Bogner, but that's mostly due to situation and preference. Both cabs sound incredible. They are extremely similar with some key differences. I think if you are looking for something with more of a metal edge, the Friedman might be the better choice. The Friedman might also be better in a very dense band mix, as it has a more cutting projection to it. But if you want something similar to the Friedman but not as hard-edged and with a bigger dispersion of sound, then the Bogner may just be your best friend. The above may change through different amps as well. I'll reassess my opinions after I've had some time with the cabs played through my incoming amps, and I'll record some comparison vids between them.
 
Although I’m not a 4x12 guy anymore, I will say I prefer slant over a straight. I’m probably in the minority, but that’s fine. I like the Bogner.
 
crwnedblasphemy":2gv1n4md said:
Although I’m not a 4x12 guy anymore, I will say I prefer slant over a straight. I’m probably in the minority, but that’s fine. I like the Bogner.
Have to say I agree. I much prefer the look of angled. I've heard all the negative arguments against angled 4x12's, but I'm just not experiencing any of it. I'd love to get my hands on a straight Bogner Helios 412 to see how it compares against the Bogner angled and the Friedman straight.
 
You are describing the differencies between straight and slanted cabs...
As far as the last argument, try moving further away from the straight cabinet...
 
blackie13":3knta4qz said:
You are describing the differencies between straight and slanted cabs...
As far as the last argument, try moving further away from the straight cabinet...
Yeah I understand that slant/straight factors into the comparison. Hence why I'd love to try a straight Bogner Helios 412. However I must say that I was standing outside the room during the comparison. And then I placed each cab in the hallway and got my 20' cable out so I could stand up the other end of the hall. Same results. I never stand directly in front of a cab. I never like the resulting sound from the beam of the speakers.
 
How much playing time have each cab ?
Polyfil in Bogner seems to make cab sound bigger with softer highs but also little mid scooped.
 
bubucci":1hk2sx6e said:
How much playing time have each cab ?
Polyfil in Bogner seems to make cab sound bigger with softer highs but also little mid scooped.
Not too sure about playing time. I acquired the Bogner used, and the Friedman is an ex-demo floor model.
And the Bogner is anything but scooped. Its mids are full and crunchy.
Cheers.


blackie13":1hk2sx6e said:
Do both cabs have casters?
The Bogner came with casters. They were removed for the comparison.
Cheers.
 
Great review. How much of the differences can also be attributed to speakers/speaker break-in?
 
Yup...Sounds like they are more similar than different, factoring casters and slant vs. straight.
 
firejack":woozeldc said:
Ok so I've had a few days with the cabs side by side. Here's my thoughts...
Had both. Enjoyed the Friedman more.

So fj 2 "The Bogner" and 3 "Both cabs" comments and 0 clips?
 
Aren't both of those cabs made in the same factory? I don't think Bogner or Friedman make their own cabs.
 
311splawndude":2lsf4zhj said:
Great review. How much of the differences can also be attributed to speakers/speaker break-in?
Thanks man. Can't say for sure but I'm fairly certain both have seen some decent play time being used and ex-demo.


Junk Yard Dog":2lsf4zhj said:
Yup...Sounds like they are more similar than different, factoring casters and slant vs. straight.
Very similar but each certainly has its own character. I removed the casters from the Bogner, so that factor is cancelled out. But certainly the angled vs straight has some influence on each cabs tone. Dammit I'm going to have to grab a Bogner Helios 412 Straight for a more accurate comparison. The Bogner Straight 412 appears to have almost the same specs and angled baffle as the Friedman Straight 412 which makes sense if they are made by the same manufacturer.


Giga.Blast":2lsf4zhj said:
Had both. Enjoyed the Friedman more.

So fj 2 "The Bogner" and 3 "Both cabs" comments and 0 clips?
Holy toledo! Your C64 avatar brought back some memories.
Clips are coming in the near future. Just waiting for my amps to arrive in the next few weeks. I only have my old amp here but it's on the chopping block right now.
 
danyeo":3gbd6t8d said:
Aren't both of those cabs made in the same factory? I don't think Bogner or Friedman make their own cabs.
I've seen such info posted around on the internet by reputable sources so I believe you are correct. The only real difference that I'm aware of is the filling that Bogner have in their cabs. Not sure if it's installed by the manufacturer or if Bogner installs it though.
 
firejack":2a78dt8a said:
Dammit I'm going to have to grab a Bogner Helios 412 Straight for a more accurate comparison.
I know it wouldn't be exact but you should be able to tilt the Friedman back 5 or 10 degrees instead. Cheaper :D

Just a thought.
 
Are the speakers already broken in? When I got my 4x12" they sounded much better after being broken in, sounded much thinner new.
 
firejack":194sh7pr said:
The Bogner Straight 412 appears to have almost the same specs and angled baffle as the Friedman Straight 412 which makes sense if they are made by the same manufacturer.

No, Bogners have a fixed baffle (permanently glued in and airtight ala Mesa Boogie) vs screwed in like Friedman (always a gap between the baffle and shell like Marshall). This, among other things like the bracing, affect how each cab 'breathes'.
 
311splawndude":26ofq6a6 said:
I know it wouldn't be exact but you should be able to tilt the Friedman back 5 or 10 degrees instead. Cheaper :D

Just a thought.
Stop derailing my GAS. :D


slash57X":26ofq6a6 said:
Are the speakers already broken in? When I got my 4x12" they sounded much better after being broken in, sounded much thinner new.
Both cabs sound as though they are broken in already, as they both sound killer. Nothing thin about either cab.


thegame":26ofq6a6 said:
No, Bogners have a fixed baffle (permanently glued in and airtight ala Mesa Boogie) vs screwed in like Friedman (always a gap between the baffle and shell like Marshall). This, among other things like the bracing, affect how each cab 'breathes'.
Very interesting to know. Because although they sound very similar, there's also some very different characteristics in their sound. Do you know who makes the cabs? Is it the same manufacturer?
 
firejack":3txu4fhc said:
thegame":3txu4fhc said:
No, Bogners have a fixed baffle (permanently glued in and airtight ala Mesa Boogie) vs screwed in like Friedman (always a gap between the baffle and shell like Marshall). This, among other things like the bracing, affect how each cab 'breathes'.
Very interesting to know. Because although they sound very similar, there's also some very different characteristics in their sound. Do you know who makes the cabs? Is it the same manufacturer?

Don't know but it doesn't matter. Most contract cab manufactures have the capability to build to the individual specs of their clients (Bogner, Friedman, etc). Its definitely not a generic Avatar or Mojotone cab with Bogner/Friedman logos slapped on the grill.
 
When the first marshall cabinets were made they were the equivalent of a stack 8 speakers. I think it was pete townsend said it`s too big to move around. It became the straight and the slant. Jim marshall built them with no rhyme or reason to measurements they just to happen to sound good. The marshall cabinet has been the standard measurement give or take for all the others ever since. That batting was and is used in pa speakers long before bogner showed up. That`s probably where he got the idea. Just sayn
 
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