4x12 vs 2x12 in a band setting/live - your experience?

[nevusofota]

In my experience live:

1. 4X12s sound better period. However...

2. Any cab can work so long as you are getting them up to equal height. Meaning one guy with a slant 4X12 and one guy with a closed-back 2X12 on the floor is a recipe for problems in FOH unless the guy with the 2X12 gets his cab up to the same height as the top 2 speakers in the 4X12 or tilts them back. Otherwise 2X12 guy is going to either have trouble hearing himself or will turn up too loud because his cab is shooting volume at his knees. If you don't like the sound of your rig with a speaker pointing at your ears that's a problem as that's what the audience/mic hears.

3. 2X12s and 4X12s take up the same amount of floor space and 4X12s aren't "louder" so the preference for smaller cabs for smaller gigs is purely visual/psychological IMO. Playing too loud for a given gig situation is a function of being a noob, not the size of the cab or wattage of the amp etc. Not to say that small amps aren't cool too, they are and I've gigged my 18 watt 1X10 superchamp combo recently with no problems.

4. 2X12s aren't really any easier to move around IMO. With my halfstack I can roll the whole thing with my small rack case on top and carry two guitars in one trip. With a 2X12 (assuming it has casters) you have to bend over to push/roll it and it's way more of a pain in the ass. Without casters they're even more annoying. Best solution is get a good hand cart and at that point any rig is easily moved. Stairs suck regardless but there have been very few gigs around here I've had to deal with stairs, honestly.

I agree with everything here except maybe the point about how a 2x12 isn't easier to move around when compared to a 4x12. When I have to carry my gear out of my basement and the into the back of my car, my 2x12's are MUCH easier than my Mesa 4x12. I guess it all depends what 2x12's you're talking about.

Point #2, once agin, is why I go with vertical slanted 2x12. Most assume that when you speak of a 2x12 you mean a horizontal cab on the floor.

Yes, I think 4x12's sound better also.......ON STAGE.

I dont agree and I have to be honest, there are times I might want a 4x12 and for the most part I think they are used for show with a few exceptions. A wall of Marshall's is a helluv more impressive than say 4 2x12's. Also traveling with 4x12's are never fun and I dont care if they are in cases with nice castor wheels or not... Call me a wimp but the idea of carrying a 4x12 up a flight of stairs and steep ramps getting my ankles beat is not fun, along with lifting them. 2x12's cabs are so much easier especially with friends help.

For those who, like me, that want a more pronounced height to hear their instrument I just use a simple platform. In my bands case, we use it as a trap case and has the bands logo on it. Flip it over and put stuff in it. I has 2 decent cab handles on it. With my GenzBenz's on it I can clearly hear my wet and dry signals.

What would be really interesting is to see a spectral response analysis of both closed back, ported 4x12 and 2x12 cabs. I am wondering if where in the normal hearing range to see how much difference there would be.

I'm trying to figure out what you don't agree with since your post about 2x12's sounds very similar to mine.

I don't think that an objective analysis between the 2 cabs would yield an interesting result because we are talking about mic'ing them (I assume this because the OP stated a band/live setting and didn't specify FOH or stage). We already know there won't be a FOH difference sonically. Now, playing both, unmic'ed, in your basement, would most likely yield a big sonic difference subjectively AND objectively.

 

[nevusofota]

I purchased one of these 2x12's on Craigslist for $80, put some V30's in it I had lying around, placed it next to me on stage and have had some of my best stage and FOH tone/volume in a long time. It's also idiot-soundguy-proof (well, almost )

http://www.carvinmuseum.com/decade/imag ... tacks.html


or the classic ADA 2x12:

If I remember right this Peavey 2x12 had a convertible half open/closed back:

Tube Works made them also

I totally agree with Steve K., more companies need to make the vertical 2x12.

 

[verderacer]

I'm trying to figure out what you don't agree with since your post about 2x12's sounds very similar to mine.

I don't think that an objective analysis between the 2 cabs would yield an interesting result because we are talking about mic'ing them (I assume this because the OP stated a band/live setting and didn't specify FOH or stage). We already know there won't be a FOH difference sonically. Now, playing both, unmic'ed, in your basement, would most likely yield a big sonic difference subjectively AND objectively.

Dude I apologize. I just utterly screwed up that reply... There was more related to your post but for some odd reason that part is completely missing.

 

[university81]

thanks for the replies, i think for some unmic'd gigs the 4x12 would potentially still be better, but the vertical 2x12s look very interesting, and a raised 2x12 would probably get the job done as well

there are some places we'll play that will be quite cramped however so the space gained will only be positive along with the practical advantages, i have a small format ceriatone 50w OTS head i use as well which makes things easier too

 

[blackba]

I purchased one of these 2x12's on Craigslist for $80, put some V30's in it I had lying around, placed it next to me on stage and have had some of my best stage and FOH tone/volume in a long time. It's also idiot-soundguy-proof (well, almost )

http://www.carvinmuseum.com/decade/imag ... tacks.html


or the classic ADA 2x12:

If I remember right this Peavey 2x12 had a convertible half open/closed back:

Tube Works made them also

I totally agree with Steve K., more companies need to make the vertical 2x12.

If you talk to most cab builders, vertical 212's just don't sell. I have one (Marshall 2556AV) and had a Mesa Metal grill halfback vertical 212. Both are cool cabs, but overall I prefer the sound of horrizontal cabs for whatever reason. I generally run my horizontal 212s on their end like in the picture below.

 

[boost]

I looked long and hard at alot of 2 X 12 cabs and wound up with a THD. The OS cabs might sound closer to a 4 X 12 but the size difference wasn't really a whole lot. The whole point (for me) of a 2 X 12 cab was compact size. I have a 4 X 12 for when I need it. You can carry the THD in one hand. Very light and compact. A full size head fits on it no problem.

I'm going to gig with it soon for the first time with my SD80 head. I'm also slaving that into a Trace Elliot Vellocette twin for a true W/D/W all tube set up with only two amps. Not a huge set up, but sounds pretty big. Have to see how it sits in a band situation though as that is very different from the basement.

I have a 1 X 12 grab and go combo, My small 2 X 12 set up and a big 4 X 12 set up for whatever situation arises. As someone said, it's nice to have options.

Having said all that, I agree nothing sounds as good as a nicely pushed 4 X 12. Sometimes it's just hard to be able to do that.