A Fizzy Tone Theory...

[ghosty999]

Something that has always frustrated me in live settings is when guitarists who are going old school Head+Cab+Mic, often will have a shrill and fizzy top end that can ruin a show. They will have a top end valve amp, and spent hours shaping their tone, only for it to come out a fizzy mess.

My theory is that often people will tweek their settings standing with their ears vertically parallel 5+ foot above the speaker. The sound going into the mic will be completely different from the sound at 5+ feet vertically above the speaker, thus turning the treble/presence up.

I don't often hear the same shrill with modellers when sent FOH, and I know these valve amps can do a really smooth top end... but countless times I just hear a fizz.

I use an AxeFX 2 to FOH but I also have a cab and Palmer power amp from output 2 with cab sim turned off. I modify the EQ on output 2 whilst kneeling on the floor... ear next to the speaker. Anyone elses do this? haha!

 

[Spaceboy]

Yes, many guitarists dial their tones in the room, and don’t actually know what it sounds like at the speaker.

 

[lespaul6]

I always kneel in front of my 4x12 when dialing it in so the opposite happens.. as soon as I stand up all the high end goes away lol

 

[311boogieman]

Yep.
Slant cabs and amp stands for the win.

 

[Monkey Man]

Yup.

High frequencies are directional, more so as you move up the spectrum.

 

[stephen sawall]

I embrace the harsh high end and use it to my advantage.

Microphone choice has a big effect on this. Unfortunately Radio Shack no longer sells the microphone I need. Throw rug over the speakers kind of gets the same effect.

The amp design and the amp up loud enough to smooth out the top is probably the biggest factor.
There is a very wide range of how a individual hears highs and experiences harsh. Some people are just much more sensitive to this effect.
It's definitely better to be a bit dark than over the top in your face with the highs.

 

[Dave L]

Yeah, and it´s a give and take with the sound of the micing and the sound of the amp too. I see local guys mic super aggressively right on top of the cap a lot of times, and at that point you´re going to be a bit on the shrill side no matter what you do. Micing isn´t really a transparent process, an inch either way is as big of a tone shaper as dialing in the amp differently. But you do need to be aware of the whole thing, not just what the amp sounds like in the room.

 

[Spaceboy]

I always assume the worst from sound guys, and dial my tones accordingly. They will haphazardly throw a mic in front of a cab, usually right in front of the cap like Dave L mentioned. The PA/monitors do even more to exacerbate these awful high frequencies, and it's bad news for me and everyone out in the audience. I honestly prefer to hear less of myself at gigs, and hear more drums/vocals. I know where my hands are, so I don't need to have myself blasting. I've combated this somewhat by giving the sound guys DI methods over the years, at the moment mostly playing a Badlander since it's built in. I can dial this in at home and at practice, and get more or less in the ballpark of what I want people to hear. Of course it will still get fucked with by the sound guys EQ decisions and whatever awful PA the venue has, but I can only control so many variables. I think more guitarists need to dial their tones in while having their cabinet mic'd and monitored in a proper studio-ish environment, or go the DI route with IRs or whatever method. The consistency is a real game changer and the technology is affordable these days.

 

[stephen sawall]

Bring your own microphone. A Sennheiser e 906 placed properly. SM 57 has good punch. But not as full sounding. SM 57 is what is used most of the time if you don't bring your own.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Yup, beaming the high end can be an issue if you don't pay attention to what you're doing. And it doesn't help if you drop a mic dead center of the dust cap. I try to stay aware of this and get my ears near the same level as the speakers when dialing in the amp.

Ted Weber sells this beam blocker thing that's supposed to disperse the high frequencies more evenly. I personally haven't used it but haven't heard anyone speak negatively of it. Not sure how it would work when close micing either.

https://www.tedweber.com/wbb12-4/

 

[RevDrucifer]

This has been my bitch about other guitarists for years now. They spend more time listening to the room than what’s actually coming out of the cabs.

Every gigging guitarists should spend some time in a room with their rig to find the cab’s sweet spot, mark it off with tape and never let the sound guy just throw a 57 directly in the center of a speaker (unless that happens to be the sweet spot, but that’s pretty damn rare in my experience).

In some of the FB groups I’m in, especially the metal-focused ones, it’s post after post with “Got this killer tone for riffing!” and it’s a wall of bees with this constant “OOooommmmmmm” in the background coming out of a $3000 amp rig.

Alas, until ya know, ya don’t know. It took years of live and studio experience for me to put the pieces together, so I try not to be too harsh on those who haven’t had that experience.

 

[SpiderWars]

I see local guys mic super aggressively right on top of the cap a lot of times, and at that point you´re going to be a bit on the shrill side no matter what you do

Recently saw this (it's timestamped, only takes a few seconds to see) where Kenny Wayne Shepard and Tom Bukovac had almost the exact same placement. Haven't tried it yet.

 

[Racerxrated]

Yep.
Slant cabs and amp stands for the win.

This. Straight cabs are great for home use, but they make it much harder to hear yourself on stage. Unless you can stand far enough away from them.
Other reasons for the harsh top end is simply this-some guys mark their eq settings and use them repeatedly without any adjustments. Most of us know that the louder you go, the brighter you get…hence the need to turn the highs down. Some don’t bother and stubbornly stay with their fav settings.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

As far as dialing in a guitar rig, tones created in isolation absolutely do not translate to tones created in a band mix.

The most effective thing you can do for dialing in your tone is to dial in your rig while the rest of the band is playing, and while you're NOT playing. Either record a loop and just listen to it with the band playing while you dial your tone, or get somebody you trust to play it for you while you dial it.

Basically, you need to duplicate exactly what the audience will hear and tweak during that situation. The closer you can get to tweaking during a 100% duplication of the band playing live, the more effective your tweaking will be.

Yup, beaming the high end can be an issue if you don't pay attention to what you're doing. And it doesn't help if you drop a mic dead center of the dust cap. I try to stay aware of this and get my ears near the same level as the speakers when dialing in the amp.

Ted Weber sells this beam blocker thing that's supposed to disperse the high frequencies more evenly. I personally haven't used it but haven't heard anyone speak negatively of it. Not sure how it would work when close micing either.

https://www.tedweber.com/wbb12-4/
View attachment 122560View attachment 122557

Beam Blockers were actually invented due to the incorrect belief that spikey high frequencies come from the center of the speaker. That's actually not true. The high frequency actually comes from the surrounding cone, but because the cone is always angled inward towards the center of the speaker, the most highs get radiated towards the center axis, and that's what the mic pics up when placed on-axis.

The best way to eliminate the beaminess of a cab and evenly distribute frequencies to all angles is actually by using a device called a "Mitchell Donut."

It works by essentially only exposing any given listening position to the same total cone surface area. In other words, no matter where you're standing, roughly the same amount of cone surface area will be exposed to you, so you'll get a much more uniform high frequency content profile across a much wider angle of exposure.

 

[mentoneman]

This. Straight cabs are great for home use, but they make it much harder to hear yourself on stage. Unless you can stand far enough away from them.
Other reasons for the harsh top end is simply this-some guys mark their eq settings and use them repeatedly without any adjustments. Most of us know that the louder you go, the brighter you get…hence the need to turn the highs down. Some don’t bother and stubbornly stay with their fav settings.

there used to be a ported tilt back device called the sound enhancer made for open back combos in various sizes from princetons up twins and ac30s.



this wooden enclosure trapped the muddy lows spilling off the back of the combo and folded it forward through a front facing port, as well as tilted the amp toward the player. i loved using it as a player for the tilt back factor (even used to put my bogner 4x12st on it for the slant) and as a soundman making volume/tone offenders with poorly dialed combos get a taste of their own medicine.

it was a great look in the mirror reality check. if they would complain about the way it sounded (too bright in my face/too bassy) i would gently steer the convo to explain that the problems they were hearing is what needed to be corrected at the amp. it wasn’t always met favorably and got interesting, but the truth was the enhancer made your amp sound fatter and more audible at lower stage volumes.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

As far as dialing in a guitar rig, tones created in isolation absolutely do not translate to tones created in a band mix.

The most effective thing you can do for dialing in your tone is to dial in your rig while the rest of the band is playing, and while you're NOT playing. Either record a loop and just listen to it with the band playing while you dial your tone, or get somebody you trust to play it for you while you dial it.

Basically, you need to duplicate exactly what the audience will hear and tweak during that situation. The closer you can get to tweaking during a 100% duplication of the band playing live, the more effective your tweaking will be.





Beam Blockers were actually invented due to the incorrect belief that spikey high frequencies come from the center of the speaker. That's actually not true. The high frequency actually comes from the surrounding cone, but because the cone is always angled inward towards the center of the speaker, the most highs get radiated towards the center axis, and that's what the mic pics up when placed on-axis.

The best way to eliminate the beaminess of a cab and evenly distribute frequencies to all angles is actually by using a device called a "Mitchell Donut."

It works by essentially only exposing any given listening position to the same total cone surface area. In other words, no matter where you're standing, roughly the same amount of cone surface area will be exposed to you, so you'll get a much more uniform high frequency content profile across a much wider angle of exposure.

I remember the foam doughnut thing too. Never bothered trying that either. I happened to be on the Weber website and the beam blockers were more in the front of my mind. And you are correct that the blockers were designed on an incorrect notion, but putting anything in front of the speaker will still influence the sound waves. I guess it all depends on the effect it has and what you're trying to achieve.

Personally I just put the cab on a stand, angle it up towards me more, or get my ear to near the same level that an audience would hear it. It's one of the reasons I like my Egnater cabs, the entire baffle is angled slightly upwards. I just have to plop it on the floor any not worry about lifting or tilting it. Speakers are directed up towards me more but not quite a direct line. Not that I play out a lot anymore for this to matter as much, but from an audience perspective the speakers would be aimed just above the front row's heads so they don't get blasted with a direct line either.

*Edit - I do this when not being miced into a PA. Once you drop a mic in front you have to EQ for what it's going to be picking up and hope the sound guy is adequate.

 

[cobrahead1030]

I try to play live with a wireless when I can. If we have adequate time for sound check, I like to walk out to the mixing board and hear what's going on in the room. If something isn't right, either the band or the sound guy need to tweak accordingly.

Of course, half the time it's more of a 'throw & go' scenario, so we get what we get.

I think from years of using the same cab, switching between a couple of heads, and using the same sm57, I've probably learned to keep my treble & gain just a hair lower than my instinct would dictate. It's pretty rare that I have to bump the amp dials more than half an hour one way or the other.

 

[Monkey Man]

Ted Weber sells this beam blocker thing that's supposed to disperse the high frequencies more evenly.

The Kemper Kabs can actually do this via Kemper's OS.

It's not specifically for highs, but rather broadband dispersion control, which is even-better when you think about it.