Alternatives to Atma?

[Zappatalist]

I've owned three Atmas- 2 heads and a combo.

From a size, weight, and feature set, they are (seemingly) perfect for what I need right now- namely, a very small/portable multi-channel low-wattage head w/a great fx loop, to act as a backup for my Landry G3 for jams and small-venue gigs.

Unfortunately for me, they also present several issues I don't seem to be able to get over: 1) clean channel is boomy, no way to dial it out unless you put an EQ in the loop (this is true no matter what cab you use and/or which rectifier setting you choose), 2) there isn't enough of a difference between Crunch and Solo gain levels, no matter how you have it dialed, 3) footswitch is wired counterintuitively, 4) it's kind of stiff feeling/sounding. I guess I could also complain about how the Decade switch isn't footswitchable, but really I just left it on "70s" most of the time, unless I was in the studio.

This has me looking for an alternative. Friedman Runt 20 seems to be at the top of my list right now, but I'd be interested in hearing what my other options are. I should mention straight away that A) I need both clean and dirty channels, and B) I've never had luck dialing in Mesas. The only other tube-based alternatives at that size/weight appear to be the Victory amps, which have received somewhat underwhelming reviews, and the Soldano HR25, which is just too large/heavy to really fit the bill (and is pretty pricey, besides).

What say you?

 

[4406cuda]

I love my Runt 20!

 

[GOHOINC]

Have you thought about a great gain pedal instead of multi channel amps? I have the atma combo but now I run it on clean only with either a diezel vh4 pedal, a be-od, a bogner la grange or a fuzz pedal. Works great. Also I swapped the stock speaker for an alnico cream and I think the atma sounds much better. I also run it with a y cable and a bogner os212 loaded with a v30 and a greenback 65. I noticed the boom in the past but have had great results with the alnico cream and the os212...

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

Did a little shootout a few years back with the arms and the Mark V 25. Wasn't the least bit interested in they Atma after that. It's a killer little head and is not hard to dial in at all. Seriously.

 

[SavageRiffer]

Dude, have you tried an EL844? There are different brands and a couple of different models of EL84 tubes. The power section has a lot to do with what low/mid/high frequencies your amp puts out. EL844's have a more agreeable EQ. If you use JJ or Sovtek, you might also just try switching to Valve Art because their EL84's sound better to me. Also, each channel might have an additional preamp tube for the different gain stages. You can substitute a lower gain preamp tube or maybe a 12AT7 which will affect how much gain is passed on to the next gain stage which might result in a wider usable gain range.

I'm not an expert or anything, but I've done a lot of tube swapping and things like that. Speakers have a lot to do with it too. EL84 amps usually aren't going to sound as good with certain speakers that EL34 or 6L6 amps will. You have to match the right speaker. It sounds like you really like the Atma but need some adjustments to make it just right. Maybe a combination of these things will get you where you need to be and you won't have to worry about swapping amps again.

 

[Badronald]

I love my PT-20 as much as anything I've ever had. Killer.

 

[Manxmusicman]

Have a look into the the revv generator 7-40, it might be what you're after.

 

[Zappatalist]

Have you thought about a great gain pedal instead of multi channel amps? I have the atma combo but now I run it on clean only with either a diezel vh4 pedal, a be-od, a bogner la grange or a fuzz pedal. Works great. Also I swapped the stock speaker for an alnico cream and I think the atma sounds much better. I also run it with a y cable and a bogner os212 loaded with a v30 and a greenback 65. I noticed the boom in the past but have had great results with the alnico cream and the os212...

I've considered getting gain from a pedal instead of a channel switcher, but honestly that kind of defeats the whole purpose of the "tiny grab n' go" head for me, in that part of the scenario here is to be able to leave the house with just the head, a small speaker cab, and a guitar. Also, for what it's worth, I've tried the Atma with a bunch of different speakers and cabs, and while somewhat different results were achieved, it wasn't enough to sway me to keep it.

Dude, have you tried an EL844? There are different brands and a couple of different models of EL84 tubes.

Speakers have a lot to do with it too. EL84 amps usually aren't going to sound as good with certain speakers that EL34 or 6L6 amps will. You have to match the right speaker. It sounds like you really like the Atma but need some adjustments to make it just right. Maybe a combination of these things will get you where you need to be and you won't have to worry about swapping amps again.

Appreciate the suggestion. I haven't tried rolling tubes in the Atma, but honestly it wouldn't fix enough of the quibbles I have with it to buy another anyway (I no longer own one). I've gone through a bunch of different speakers/cabs (as noted above). I like the *idea* of the Atma- from a size/weight vs. volume + feature set perspective, unfortunately the execution in this case leaves me wanting.

Have a look into the the revv generator 7-40, it might be what you're after.

Hmm... had no idea about these. Cool amp, for sure, but too large/heavy to fit the bill, unfortunately.

 

[Red_Label]

Another vote for the Runt 20. Great little amp!

Or get a Mini Dirty Shirley (my favorite lunch box) and use your volume knob to dial in/out gain. It cleans up amazingly well and sounds so great. It's a little amp that thinks it's a big amp.

 

[acidvoodoo]

I had an ATMA in the Helios headshell, looked awesome but I soon found similar dislikes with it as you, so off it went...and the search for a small tone machine continued.

I recently bought a new Friedman PT-20 and I absolutely love it. I play hard rock/metal and with the newly added gain structure switch it covers lots of ground, much more versatile than the original version, definitely worth trying one out.

 

[Red_Label]

I had an ATMA in the Helios headshell, looked awesome but I soon found similar dislikes with it as you, so off it went...and the search for a small tone machine continued.

I recently bought a new Friedman PT-20 and I absolutely love it. I play hard rock/metal and with the newly added gain structure switch it covers lots of ground, much more versatile than the original version, definitely worth trying one out.

I'm looking forward to checking the new version out. I had the original PT-20 after they first came out (it was my first Friedman) and wasn't wild about it. It didn't seem to clean up well enough for me, and had no thump. I got a Ceriatone Chupacabra the same day as the Taco and the Chup spanked it for what I was looking for. The Mini Shirley that I demo'd in the man cave did both of those things (clean up and thump) far better than the original Taco. But the new version of the Taco sounds very promising, and no doubt it will be much tighter than the Shirley. I like my current BE100 more than the Smallbox and DS40 that I had. But a Taco with more tonal options might make a good backup, recording and practice rig. I would like to see a Taco with a switchable clean channel. Which would make it a higher quality Runt 20 I guess.

 

[Zappatalist]

I would like to see a Taco with a switchable clean channel. Which would make it a higher quality Runt 20 I guess.

Yeah, this is the crux of the biscuit for me; as much as I get the "clean up with the volume control on the guitar" thing, I need a dedicated switchable clean channel. (Which means the Runt 20 seems like the one from the Friedman line that fits my needs the best.)

 

[acidvoodoo]

I'm looking forward to checking the new version out. I had the original PT-20 after they first came out (it was my first Friedman) and wasn't wild about it. It didn't seem to clean up well enough for me, and had no thump. I got a Ceriatone Chupacabra the same day as the Taco and the Chup spanked it for what I was looking for. The Mini Shirley that I demo'd in the man cave did both of those things (clean up and thump) far better than the original Taco. But the new version of the Taco sounds very promising, and no doubt it will be much tighter than the Shirley. I like my current BE100 more than the Smallbox and DS40 that I had. But a Taco with more tonal options might make a good backup, recording and practice rig. I would like to see a Taco with a switchable clean channel. Which would make it a higher quality Runt 20 I guess.

I'm running it through 2 Hellatone V30's and with the bass turned up this little guy definitely has some thump! It sounds like a big amp. I had a Smallbox for about two weeks and very much prefer the PT-20, especially when you factor in the price difference. Eventually I'll probably send it to Dave so he can add a simple clean channel to it.

 

[4406cuda]

I run my Runt 20 with the AXE FX8 II, tonal heaven and integrated channel switching.

 

[Badronald]

I'm looking forward to checking the new version out. I had the original PT-20 after they first came out (it was my first Friedman) and wasn't wild about it. It didn't seem to clean up well enough for me, and had no thump. I got a Ceriatone Chupacabra the same day as the Taco and the Chup spanked it for what I was looking for. The Mini Shirley that I demo'd in the man cave did both of those things (clean up and thump) far better than the original Taco. But the new version of the Taco sounds very promising, and no doubt it will be much tighter than the Shirley. I like my current BE100 more than the Smallbox and DS40 that I had. But a Taco with more tonal options might make a good backup, recording and practice rig. I would like to see a Taco with a switchable clean channel. Which would make it a higher quality Runt 20 I guess.

I'm running it through 2 Hellatone V30's and with the bass turned up this little guy definitely has some thump! It sounds like a big amp. I had a Smallbox for about two weeks and very much prefer the PT-20, especially when you factor in the price difference. Eventually I'll probably send it to Dave so he can add a simple clean channel to it.

Man, if he can do that and put it on a single button footswitch this amp would be unstoppable.
I love it as it is and don't care about a dedicated clean channel, but it sounds like others would like one.

By the way, I agree with you. This thing has great thump and home practice and lower levels of band practice. I always have high output amps, so if I play a big place i'm covered, but I see the PT-20 being my go to amp for just about everything these days. I rarely play my 100 - 120 watt amps loud anymore anyway. Everywhere I play seems to have decent p.a. systems, so...

 

[supersonic]

The Atma is a fantastic amp, it has the best clean channel of any amp IMO, I get great tones on the clean channel using a Bogner Blue, Arc Klone and Blue note, (all set low gain and stacked for different degrees of gain).
I use channel two set to medium gain and add one of the above ODs' if I want to get more grind.
Channel three is a bit misleading as it only adds gain and volume to channel 2, it will add compression and bass as the gain is turned up. What you really want when going from channel two to three is more cutting mids, volume and gain.
All of the tones are in there but accessing them on the fly is the tricky part. I'm yet to work it out but I suspect a switching system is needed to add eq and od to the solo channel would be the route.
As far as the boominess goes I have not had this problem, pick ups maybe? The Atma prefers an open back cab as a closed back can sound "boxy". I really like the "stiff" feel of the amp too. The Atma tones in an XTC layout would be my perfect amp.

 

[Zappatalist]

The Atma is a fantastic amp, it has the best clean channel of any amp IMO, I get great tones on the clean channel using a Bogner Blue, Arc Klone and Blue note, (all set low gain and stacked for different degrees of gain).
I use channel two set to medium gain and add one of the above ODs' if I want to get more grind.
Channel three is a bit misleading as it only adds gain and volume to channel 2, it will add compression and bass as the gain is turned up. What you really want when going from channel two to three is more cutting mids, volume and gain.
All of the tones are in there but accessing them on the fly is the tricky part. I'm yet to work it out but I suspect a switching system is needed to add eq and od to the solo channel would be the route.
As far as the boominess goes I have not had this problem, pick ups maybe? The Atma prefers an open back cab as a closed back can sound "boxy". I really like the "stiff" feel of the amp too. The Atma tones in an XTC layout would be my perfect amp.

At the risk of sounding argumentative, I gigged and recorded with this amp for several years (actually 3 of them), and used it with several different guitars, different cabs (closed and open back), and different speakers, so I feel like my opinion stated in the OP is pretty well informed. You and I seem to have had differing experiences with this amp- glad it's working out for you, though.

Aaaaaaaaaanyway, it seems like the Runt 20 is still the best contender for this role. Gonna start looking for a used one, doesn't seem like they come up very often.

 

[Rdodson]

The ATMA is stiff. It just is. It does sound good; producers always liked it. It responds well to expensive NOS glass and top-of-the-line EL84s. That really helps.

 

[Zappatalist]

The ATMA is stiff. It just is. It does sound good; producers always liked it.

Yeah - I actually had a lot better luck with it in the studio than I did in live situations, for what it's worth. The decade switch and the myriad of sonic treatment options available in the studio made for a lot of good/usable sounds... and the fact that I didn't have to wrestle with the oddly-wired footswitch and the (lack of) difference between the drive channels certainly made life easier. If I had only needed it for recording purposes, I'd still own one.

As it stands, the fact that the Runt 20 has a XLR cab simulated output for recording is actually a pretty nice selling point, since it'll easily facilitate home recording.

 

[gtrlw]

May not be on par with the Atma or a Friedman but I ran across a used Egnater Rebel 30 for $185 at my local guitar shop. A 2 channel head for the price of a pedal - I couldn't resist. It actually sounds good and its small size makes it perfect to keep in my car as a backup and take to rehearsals when I don't feel like taking my gigging rig.