Anybody shred with a semi-clean sound???

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the aXeman

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Hey guys,



So a few months back I bought my first Marshall from a buddy of mine. When I went over to pick it up, we had a little jam session and he was kinda showing me some tricks with the amp...and also schooling me big time. This guy's good- he can play Yngwie like nobody's business and can play slow, melodic stuff that'll just make you cry... He blends the 2 in a way that'll make you cringe... When I plugged into the amp for the first time, I just about hit the deck. The amp sound was practically CLEAN!! When my bud was playing it, it sounded like it had all the distortion in the world.... He didn't use ANY front-end boost at all, no FX's... just straight in. He had the gain at about 1 'o clock and was doing all the squeals and harmonics no problem... It took me a few weeks to get the hang of it, I can riff through it (gain on full, of course...) without too much hassle... but I still hit it with a boost for solos... I'm trying to get used to soloing without the boost but I can't seem to do it!! Anybody out there really shred with a sound that could pass as a gritty clean sound?? Guess I kinda feel guilty for using some front-end boost for extra gain for the self-compression that I like after seeing somebody use the exact same rig with half the distortion... But I can't think of ANYBODY who doesn't use some type of front-end boost if they're not running an ultra-distorted tone to begin with!! We're talking more 80's Hard Rock shred... I'm kinda directing it more towards my Marshall guys out there but anybody who uses anything else with a similar approach please chime in!!


aXe
 
Eddie Van Halen used a pretty clean sound on the old records
 
Yeah it requires much more work to shred on a crunchy tone than on a full on melting face distortion. Like either you're pushing the amp with your playing or the amp pulls you in. I like lots of overdrive but if I had the choice, I'd rather be a better player and use less of it.
 
Eddie's amp seemed like it had an amazing overdrive-to-saturation ratio to it; for as non-distorted as it sounded at times, it really seemed like he had that self-compression happening, and from what I know, he's never been a big user of compressors (correct me if I'm wrong there...)

Agreed, Hunter. I'm still trying to figure out how he does it... Oh, btw, I DID play his guitar to see if it was the pickups... NOPE!! He grabbed my Explorer and made it sing like I never could... :p Jerk... ha
 
I do all my practice unamplified. If I can't get pick harmonics sounding bright and squeaky when I'm just playing acoustically, plugging in to a Dual Recto ain't gonna help it.
 
shgshg":3u4ubfsd said:
I do all my practice unamplified. If I can't get pick harmonics sounding bright and squeaky when I'm just playing acoustically, plugging in to a Dual Recto ain't gonna help it.
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I practice unamplified most of the time as well.

I don't need a lot of gain to rip, however I like it!
 
i don't think there's anything more to it than practise, i'm like you i need a certain amount of gain to function but i've seen much more technical players than me shred on unplugged and acoustic guitars. The legato is the giveaway here, it takes a ton of left hand strength and conditioning , guys who can do audible legato on a clean sound have advanced technique - like that video of Guthrie doing it one handed, just insane
 
Badronald":2lvbs5is said:
shgshg":2lvbs5is said:
I do all my practice unamplified. If I can't get pick harmonics sounding bright and squeaky when I'm just playing acoustically, plugging in to a Dual Recto ain't gonna help it.
Click to expand...

I practice unamplified most of the time as well.

I don't need a lot of gain to rip, however I like it!
Click to expand...




Same here on practicing unplugged. My Explorer rings really well unplugged... I should mention that this was my first tube amp also and the amount of sound as well as the consistency of it on my end has amplified (no pun intended) enormously just jamming unplugged from cleaning up the slop that was covered up before with all the effects before... I can run through a lot of solos and everything unplugged but I gotta have that extra kick in the pants when I plug in to really execute them properly and comfortably... But I still feel like I'm cheating after seeing somebody take my guitar, plug it through my amp, and turn the gain at 1 'o clock and rip it like crazy.... Gahh!!!!!!


So here's another question. For those that don't use any front-end distortion for the extra "POW", or for those that are trying to play without it... Why do it that way, and are there any advantages to it that you could think of?
 
How hot were the pups on his guitar? I usually only play with preamp gain at around 2 pm (7) and with decent output pups and legato and hammer ons, you can get a lot done if you dig in. Where it kills you is alternate picking. Check out Malmsteen below at around 40 second mark. I think he is playing through a JMP and doesn't sound like additional pedal gain. His hands do the talking but you need to play heavy handed with less gain.

 
Kapo_Polenton":36k49crf said:
How hot were the pups on his guitar? I usually only play with preamp gain at around 2 pm (7) and with decent output pups and legato and hammer ons, you can get a lot done if you dig in. Where it kills you is alternate picking. Check out Malmsteen below at around 40 second mark. I think he is playing through a JMP and doesn't sound like additional pedal gain. His hands do the talking but you need to play heavy handed with less gain.

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Wow, pretty much right on the money like watching Shawn (my buddy) do his thing!! His 2 biggest influences are Yngwie and Lynch, so it makes sense. ha As far as his pickups, I played his guitar too... He was playing an '86 Charvel Model 5 with the stock active Jackson pickups... They didn't seem too hot to me. He played my Explorer and made it scream just like his Charvel and I've just got the stock Gibson pickups in there yet... I'm thinking about swapping them out for a Tone Zone in the bridge and maybe an Air Norton or LiquiFire in the neck... not sure yet. Gotta do more research there.... What do you think the benefits are to running lower gain than higher gain for shredding like that?? Any?
 
Less fizz for one. Bigger fatter tone. It sounds more organic and less like gain. I know that makes no sense but that is how i hear it personally. Too much gain compresses everything. Turning up the amp helps too. Active pickups speak for themselves but stock gibson pickups are no slouches either where ceramic pups go either. I think you'd want to go JB, SD territory for the grind you want with an amp with no pedals. TZ gets mixed reviews and really only does a brighter guitar justice I think. Still though, you'll still sound good with a bit of a push from an OD so don't discard it completely.
 
Nothing will bring you back to earth like low gain and no FX.
 
i had my fling with tons of gain when i was younger. 5150 with the gain on about 6-7...totally totally over saturated! as i got older i pulled the gain back, and near the end of my time with the amp i had the gain on about 2.5. and this was with a Duncan Distortion, not EMGs (even though the Distortion is a pretty hot pickup). after it got stolen i used my Pod mostly, just to practice and jam out with. when i got my Single Recto it was a shock because i figured it was pretty much a really high gain amp like the 5150. it is...just different. and it took me a while to figure that out. much less compressed, and it likes to be loud to sound and feel good. i hit it with a boost and i liked it...but i learned to do away with it and just use the amp and my guitars. i refreshed the preamp tubes and run EL34s in the power section, run the gain around 1 o'clock which is about how much the 5150 put out at 2.5-3, although less saturated. and with the volume up to at least practice levels its pretty easy to shred on, although not forgiving at all.

plus i practice unplugged a lot, so gain doesnt get in the way of doing clean runs. running a decent amount of gain can cover up mistakes, as we all know, plus ive practiced like that for most of my guitar playing life. and if you REALLY want to hear guys shred with a clean tone, check out some of the country/bluegrass guys. jesus...shredding on a clean electric tone is one thing, but when they bust out some chops on an acoustic it makes you want to just quit!
 
Thanks for the replies guys!! soc_monki, how long did it take you to get used to running your setup that way over using a more saturated distortion sound??
 
the aXeman":9fsd1snr said:
Thanks for the replies guys!! soc_monki, how long did it take you to get used to running your setup that way over using a more saturated distortion sound??
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wouldnt have taken as long if i would have just sat down and practiced! LOL i just had to get used to the response of the amp and figure out my settings, and after some woodshedding it came back to me. playing on a Pod vs. playing on a real amp is very different feel wise, and since i played with nothing but a Pod for a couple years i had to kind of relearn how to interact with the amp. doesnt help that the Mesa sucks completely at lower volumes. which is why i never liked them in the first place...but when you live with it for a while and get to crank it up then i started understanding the ins and outs of it.

plus, being 50 watts lets me get the power section breathing a lot earlier. i played on a buddy's triple recto and at the same volume, and while the sound was similar my amp felt like it opened up a little more lower on the volume dial. partially the 50 watts, partially the EL34s i think. im sure his would stay more controlled at high volumes, and mine would get messier, but ive never gone for a super tight, preamp only dist tone if i can help it.
 
dimeola and greg howe shred w/very little distortion
 
Yeah I learned on an old Bassman and still play with very little grit, just a lot of volume. Playing heavy handed with the power tubes really working will give you lots of bite and sustain.
I have a very difficult time playing precisely through a heavily distorted rig. There's definitely an art to both sides. I think Kotzen is a perfect example of someone who can bring it either way.
 
I play the same regardless if it completely clean, point of break-up, crunch or high gain. It really does not make any difference to me. Most of the time I run direct into front of my NMV - JMP with my LP or Strat. Gain & saturation is completely unnecessary.
 
the aXeman":2arunil6 said:
Eddie's amp seemed like it had an amazing overdrive-to-saturation ratio to it; for as non-distorted as it sounded at times, it really seemed like he had that self-compression happening, and from what I know, he's never been a big user of compressors (correct me if I'm wrong there...)

Agreed, Hunter. I'm still trying to figure out how he does it... Oh, btw, I DID play his guitar to see if it was the pickups... NOPE!! He grabbed my Explorer and made it sing like I never could... :p Jerk... ha
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Nope, Eddie was playing with WAY less gain than a lot of people think. That's why you hear so many people "copping Eddie" but with giant gain. What you're hearing in early EVH is a cranked amp and a kickin' guitar player with loads of attitude. That attitude is your saturation...
 
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