AxeFx vs Kemper vs real amplifier.

[Mailman1971]

I had one of these....supposed to be a MIX of both worlds...
it was fun to mess around with for sure.....but got bored messing with it after a week.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ ... Mgod4AcAsA

 

[squank]

While waiting on the Kemper AxeII dust to settle, I bought a Rhodes Gemini to have an amp with insane midi control.

In the end, since I don't play out enough to find setting up my gear a hassle, I'm sticking with amps. If it ever comes to pass I play out enough to need more, Two Notes seems pretty cool.

Not going to buy a fake amp to emulate the real amps I own... No need to.

I hear what you're saying. But for me, it was all about buying the profiler so I could take all my cool amps to a gig without hauling around 10 different heads and some space-based switching station.

 

[squank]

I had one of these....supposed to be a MIX of both worlds...
it was fun to mess around with for sure.....but got bored messing with it after a week.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ ... Mgod4AcAsA

I know, right? Weren't those the biggest disappointment?

I remember thinking, "Wow, I wonder how much different this is going to sound than a POD?" Turns out it wasn't much different.

 

[Mailman1971]

I had one of these....supposed to be a MIX of both worlds...
it was fun to mess around with for sure.....but got bored messing with it after a week.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ ... Mgod4AcAsA

I know, right? Weren't those the biggest disappointment?

I remember thinking, "Wow, I wonder how much different this is going to sound than a POD?" Turns out it wasn't much different.

I remember playing it in the music store....just RIPPING on it!! I was like.....FINALLY!!!

After a week.....it was on the floor.....

 

[Heritage Softail]

While waiting on the Kemper AxeII dust to settle, I bought a Rhodes Gemini to have an amp with insane midi control.

In the end, since I don't play out enough to find setting up my gear a hassle, I'm sticking with amps. If it ever comes to pass I play out enough to need more, Two Notes seems pretty cool.

Not going to buy a fake amp to emulate the real amps I own... No need to.

I hear what you're saying. But for me, it was all about buying the profiler so I could take all my cool amps to a gig without hauling around 10 different heads and some space-based switching station.

That is the reason.

The only reason I would consider it.

And it is ones A
awesome one though, if you get profiles you are happy with.

 

[ejecta]

The last few months I have mixed a bunch of records with Kemper, Ax FX etc... They all sounded ok soloed but mixed poorly. Also they all had strange phase issues with large layers of heavy rhythms. Not my cup of tea, I ain’t sellin my amp collection for a box of 1’s and 0’s.

Given your resume I am in no way challenging you when I ask how bands like the Deftones make it work as in their album "Koi_No_Yokan" which was all Axe Fx. Maybe there's a trick to how you record them? I also realize you didn't record the original tracks you are talking about as you are a mixing house. (great idea BTW).

I know that the Kemper had a problem with phasing if you re-amped with it on numerous overdubs as different profiles had different latency. Kemper fixed that with a switch that sets all the same but you do have to activate it and maybe some Kemper guys don't know that.

I'm a huge Deftones fan. Saw an interview with Stephen and I'm pretty sure he said he used several amps on that record but he used the Axe2 to capture them and take them on the road to get that sound on the road and said he as happy with the initial results but felt he needs to dive deeper to get that last bit more. So obviously FOR HIM it works for the most part. I saw them in March at Marathon Music Works in Nashville. His tone was not exactly like the record, didn't cut as well as I thought it could nor was it thick like it is on the record. Periphery opened and they use them as well. I thought the same about their tone. Ironically the best tone was the lead singer Cino's and he was using an orange amp and cab on stage mic'd on stage. I didn't even know that until after the show and I went up there to look. I thought he was using the AxeFX too.

All that said both bands kicked ass and after a few songs even though the tone didn't get any better in the mix, I had a great time and could tell both bands were having fun too and that's what it's really about.

As for recording and mixing.... when I had my Kemper we profiled my friends plexi and I can say for sure that when we went back and forth between the tracks recorded traditional and then using the Kemper, IMHO the mic'd tones would sit in a mix better and I could see where James said that in very thick multiple tracks of guitars he may have had a hard time getting what he is looking for. As an alternative Pete makes some great recording with his Kemper so for him it works and Periphery uses AxeFX2's in their recording and it sounds great. Again all subjective.

I'm by no means slagging the tech.... just speaking honestly about my experience as I think both the Kemper and AxeFX are cool units and that's after owning them both and the AxeFX twice.

It just cracks me up the defensive nature some users of digital units have. I really don't understand why they feel the need to knee jerk react to anything remotely negative said about digital amps. If you like then cool.... fuck what other people think.

 

[zentman]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/120948114/Ele ... e-feb-2013 pg 22

Just one of many articles out there pointing out that they used the Axe II on the record. They did sketch tracks with the amps then replaced them with TM patches they made. As to why it's not as fat live? Overdubs, multiple tracks, studio magic etc.

That being said, my politely worded, non-defensive question was how some can make it work and others can't. Must be a trick these guys did to make it sound so great on the album.

Furthermore, can anybody give me a scientific reason why the two tones below wouldn't sit the same in a mix? One being the amp the other a digital reproduction. The only reason I ever read is "IMHO it was just different". I'm being sincere here, not defensive.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/858 ... 0match.wav

 

[zentman]

Duplicate post deleted.

 

[ejecta]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/120948114/Electronic-Musician-magazine-feb-2013 pg 22

Just one of many articles out there pointing out that they used the Axe II on the record. They did sketch tracks with the amps then replaced them with TM patches they made. As to why it's not as fat live? Overdubs, multiple tracks, studio magic etc.

That being said, my politely worded, non-defensive question was how some can make it work and others can't. Must be a trick these guys did to make it sound so great on the album.

Must be something going on in the studio as it is with all recording traditional or non. I must not have heard right in that interview.... I didn't hear him say he used them to record with but anyway yes the album sounds really good but his captures IMHO did not translate live and could see how James made of had issues.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

I love vs. threads.

 

[Ventura]

...fuck what other people think.

No kidding eh?

If only you could grab those thoughts by both the ears and lay into it Compton style, man...

 

[Shark Diver]

I love vs. threads.

Yeah, I really try not to look at it that way. But it's fun reading.

X vs Y really comes down to personal needs and taste. I think we are pretty much at the point where digital amp simulation can fill a lot of needs. Not all needs, but neither do amps.

 

[squank]

I love vs. threads.

Yeah, I really try not to look at it that way. But it's fun reading.

X vs Y really comes down to personal needs and taste. I think we are pretty much at the point where digital amp simulation can fill a lot of needs. Not all needs, but neither do amps.

Well said.


It should be noted that there are many great (and expensive) tube amps out there that I don't like. Never would use them. Do they suck because they are tube amplified? Of course not. They just aren't my preference.

I think a lot of the overzealous defense of the AxeFX (and to a lesser degree, the Kemper) was because of the kind of criticisms the units received initially. The majority of the comments I read were along the lines of "They'll never get digital to sound like analog", "Tubes will always sound better than digital", or "I hate solid state crap." Most critics had never tried the unit, and so their comments were uninformed. Most of the fans of the new product just wanted people to listen for themselves, and not have a bunch of troglodytes poison the public's opinion before they had a chance to hear it for themselves.

 

[ejecta]

I love vs. threads.

Yeah, I really try not to look at it that way. But it's fun reading.

X vs Y really comes down to personal needs and taste. I think we are pretty much at the point where digital amp simulation can fill a lot of needs. Not all needs, but neither do amps.

Well said.


It should be noted that there are many great (and expensive) tube amps out there that I don't like. Never would use them. Do they suck because they are tube amplified? Of course not. They just aren't my preference.

I think a lot of the overzealous defense of the AxeFX (and to a lesser degree, the Kemper) was because of the kind of criticisms the units received initially. The majority of the comments I read were along the lines of "They'll never get digital to sound like analog", "Tubes will always sound better than digital", or "I hate solid state crap." Most critics had never tried the unit, and so their comments were uninformed. Most of the fans of the new product just wanted people to listen for themselves, and not have a bunch of troglodytes poison the public's opinion before they had a chance to hear it for themselves.

I agree but is all the hyper defensiveness still needed today? Quite a few players have tried the unit and like it or they don't and move on. Honestly, you don't see as many of the players of the cheaper units getting sand in the ol' va jay jay over every little negative comments about digital. It just looks like SOME of the guys who buy the high end modelers feel they have to justify putting that much coin down on a boutique modeler.

 

[squank]

I love vs. threads.

Yeah, I really try not to look at it that way. But it's fun reading.

X vs Y really comes down to personal needs and taste. I think we are pretty much at the point where digital amp simulation can fill a lot of needs. Not all needs, but neither do amps.

Well said.


It should be noted that there are many great (and expensive) tube amps out there that I don't like. Never would use them. Do they suck because they are tube amplified? Of course not. They just aren't my preference.

I think a lot of the overzealous defense of the AxeFX (and to a lesser degree, the Kemper) was because of the kind of criticisms the units received initially. The majority of the comments I read were along the lines of "They'll never get digital to sound like analog", "Tubes will always sound better than digital", or "I hate solid state crap." Most critics had never tried the unit, and so their comments were uninformed. Most of the fans of the new product just wanted people to listen for themselves, and not have a bunch of troglodytes poison the public's opinion before they had a chance to hear it for themselves.

I agree but is all the hyper defensiveness still needed today? Quite a few players have tried the unit and like it or they don't and move on. Honestly, you don't see as many of the players of the cheaper units getting sand in the ol' va jay jay over every little negative comments about digital. It just looks like SOME of the guys who buy the high end modelers feel they have to justify putting that much coin down on a boutique modeler.

Needed? No. But you still occasionally get trolls who love to stir the pot, and some people are just too sensitive to it.

Modelers are tools, plain and simple. They are good at what they do. If'n somebody isn't interested, move on. Unfortunately, some people can't leave it at that.

The reality is that at some point, probably in our lifetime, tube amps will simply go away (or become collector's items).

 

[RedRider]

I own an slo and an axe ultra....and while I can absolutely see how easy it would be to gig with the axefx and not lug a ton of gear and still sound great there is no way that I would choose it over my slo...however I don't play out...so obviously the stuff i play will always lean towards what the slo's excels at...and I just skip the weak stuff... Lol

 

[tonefinger]

Never will be able to duplicate analog. You would have to have a sampling rate of better than 2000khz to come close. Mathmatically can not be done with current technology

 

[squank]

Never will be able to duplicate analog. You would have to have a sampling rate of better than 2000khz to come close. Mathmatically can not be done with current technology

It's already doing it. And doing a pretty good job.

The test is not a mathematical standard, it's a listening standard.

 

[IntenseJim]

Never will be able to duplicate analog. You would have to have a sampling rate of better than 2000khz to come close. Mathmatically can not be done with current technology

It's already doing it. And doing a pretty good job.

The test is not a mathematical standard, it's a listening standard.

True. And how many of us on this board can hear up to 20 Khz?

I said how many of us on this board can hear up to 20 Khz?


The ironic factor is that people will judge and compare tube, solid state, and digitally created clips tones on Soundcloud or Youtube...which is all digitized sound through the Internet, you PC/Apple and into your speakers.

 

[steve_k]

What folks need to wrap their head around is that the Kemper is a profiler. In the words of those that created it, "the Kemper is as good as it will get as it cannot get any better. It profiles exactly the signal fed to it and stores that impulse". The Axe FX is a simulator and creates a digital audio sample that is determined by the DSP and re-creation of a digitally input circuit - or built from digital scratch. So, yeah, there's fuck tons of difference in the two and how they deliver digitally stored audio. Every time Fractal comes out with a firmware upgrade, it is going to sound better.

FX, routing, control function, power amp sims and cab IR's - that's another thing.