Best way to connect Herbert Mark 2 to Diezel Rear Loaded 412

[MikeToddOnline]

So many opinions on this. Everyone says their way is the right way.
That said, running a Fender Strat and/or Les Paul Custom into a TC Electronic G-System then through the Loop of a Diezel Herbert Mark 2 Head, which is the best mono option for feeding into a Diezel Rear Loaded 4x12? 16, 8, 4, etc?
Can you damage the head or speaks if done "incorrectly?"
Tonal differences?

Thanks!
I wouldn't ask as this is very basic knowledge, and yet so many people seem to differ on their opinion or methodology.

 

[cardinal]

What's the impedance of the cab? Probably 16 ohms? Safest bet is to use the 16 ohm speaker out. You also could rewire the cab to be 4 ohm, then best bet is to use the 4 ohm output. I've gone back and forth using a Marshall cab with a switch to go between 16 and 4 ohm, and thought the 4 ohm wiring was a bit "stiffer" and "colder" than the 16 ohm wiring, but it was hard to hear.

Are you wanting to mismatch the impedance? Peter would be the authority on whether the Herbert is built to withstand impedance mismatching. I tend to like the sound of using an 8 ohm speaker output into a 16 ohm cabinet. It sounds warmer to me than matching with a 16 ohm output. It also noticeably kills some volume. From what's been explained to me, running the mismatch in that direction increases the magnitude of flyback voltages, which if unlucky could cause arcing at the tube sockets or in the output transformers, which obviously is bad. Running a mismatch the other way supposedly stresses the output transformer's primary. These days I just match the impedance.

 

[MikeToddOnline]

It's a standard stock Diezel 4x12 with two input jacks, one which is 8 ohm mono/16 ohm and then the input jack next to it is another 16 ohm.

 

[MikeToddOnline]

I had an old JCM 800 slant cab that I had re-wired into a stereo cab (was using a stereo rack setup back then, 90s).

Next 4x12 was a Mesa oversized Rectifier run with a Line 6 Vetta HD.

Then I didn't play for a number of years and now I'm back with the Diezel/TC setup. I've noticed big differences in tone, gain, and white noise depending on which fx loop I use (parallel or Serial). Diezel Owner's Manual says one, TC "White Pages" and owners manual says another. I'm more inclined to listen to Germans over Danes. Then again TC are some of the best FX in the World but likely aren't overly familiar with the nuances of Diezel's looping options as opposed to non-boutique heads.

 

[GtarLover]

So the Diezel cabs are wired for 8ohms mono and 2X16ohms stereo.

If you are only running 1 cab in mono, you would want to use the 8ohm output on your Herbert.
I run 2 Diezel cabs off my Herbert, each cab out of one the 4ohm outputs of Herbert.
This is because each cab is 8ohms and together they are 4ohms or 2 X 8ohms.

Hope this makes sense

 

[cardinal]

GtarLover is right on the connections.

Regarding the loops, there are just significant differences in how a serial loop operates from a parallel loop. If you're using multiple pedals, you really want the serial loop, in my opinion. If you're just using a single pedal (like delay) or a multi-FX pedal, the parallel loop might work well for you, but the FXs ideally would need killdry to be at their best. In other words, parallel loops are trickier to use, in my opinion.

 

[phil b]

I dont understand why you are saying so many peoples opinions differ on the subject. There is only ONE way to do it correctly. You could mismatch but thats not correct. Again, one correct way...

As far as you running the G system, are you running into the input of that and then the return of the loop or going into the front of the head and using the send/return for the G system? The series loop will allow both wet and dry signals whereas the parallel loop will allow you to run your effects 100% wet and then blend them with the dry signal. Which loops you use depends on what type of effects you are running.. etc. If you do use the parallel loop make sure you go full wet or you might get some nasty phasing issues going on. Remember though, these are all just guidelines and the end result is what sounds best to you.

 

[kahawe]

Concerning amp-->cab, your best bet should be to simply match the impedance. If that doesn't sound good it is probably better to either dial it in so it does, give the speakers some time to breakin-in if new and if all that doesn't work, well, then you would start searching for which component to swap - most likely the cab since it contributes so much to the sound.
I don't think mismatching impedance should be considered so nonchalantly as an "option". The rule, the one way of hooking it up, is to match (the overall) impedance. There might be very few exceptions to that and I would never do it unless you are really 100% sure of what you are doing, because worst case is you gonna be sending your herb off to a quite expensive repair if something goes wrong.

Concerning the gsystem, do try the search function because this topic has come up here a few times and at least one common way is what everyone refers to as the "4 cable method" on here. I think some folks had issues with the gsystem "sucking tone", though. YMMV, above all trust your ears and consider which effects you want and whether you want some/all of them serial or parallel.

 

[MikeToddOnline]

Phil B --->
Because prior to this thread, that has been MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE when asking people

 

[MikeToddOnline]

I think I see the problem. my kid was playing hide and seek behind my cab and must have unplugged the cab 8 and put it back in the 4.
I wondered why the master volume seemed to be dropping levels a bit on channel 3! Hope I didn't damage the sucker!
So JUST SO WE HAVE THIS STRAIGHT.
Forget 4ohm since Herbert only has 8 and 16 ohm, and my two options are 8 ohm out to 8ohm in, or 16 ohm out to 16 ohm in

 

[webrthomson]

Herbert -> FL 4x12 is like this:

The 16 Ohms are either side in 2x12 stereo format!

 

[MikeToddOnline]

Now THAT is an answer!!! THANK YOU
However, luckily I figured it out for myself last night after talking to a huge Marshall enthusiast buddy of mine who reminded me that not all Celestions have the same OHMs and to check Diezel site to see what mine were. Just to be sure, I opened the back of my Diezel RL 4x12 and saw they are 8s and as such, immediately put it back to where it was, 8 to 8. Sounds SOOO much better and no Master Volume creepdown. What footswitch are you using? Not the Columbus obviously. I'm channel changing via MIDI from my G-System. Thanks for the response dude!

 

[MikeToddOnline]

See that (2x8) symbol? That's what was throwing me off after my kid unplugged and replugged it! I was like hey I don't remember that shit from six months ago, haha!

Is your Herb a Mark 2? Mine's got the Lars signature on it as well. Isn't it the greatest head ever made? I didn't dig the D-Moll or Hagen too much but I'm VERY curious to try and likely buy a VH4 and a second cab, this time Vintage Salt and Pepper grill with the FL G12K-100s.

What speaks are in your FL? G12K-100 I bet!

 

[kahawe]

See that (2x8) symbol? That's what was throwing me off

That "2x8" is there to tell you: if you are running TWO 8Ohm cabs, plug them into the two 4Ohm outputs because that's the (Ohm's) law!" Same with the "2x16" marking.

Check the manual, Diezel explains the hooking-up there as well!

 

[MikeToddOnline]

Danke Schon.

 

[webrthomson]

Now THAT is an answer!!! THANK YOU
However, luckily I figured it out for myself last night after talking to a huge Marshall enthusiast buddy of mine who reminded me that not all Celestions have the same OHMs and to check Diezel site to see what mine were. Just to be sure, I opened the back of my Diezel RL 4x12 and saw they are 8s and as such, immediately put it back to where it was, 8 to 8. Sounds SOOO much better and no Master Volume creepdown. What footswitch are you using? Not the Columbus obviously. I'm channel changing via MIDI from my G-System. Thanks for the response dude!

Welcome - I'm using one of these for a footpedal:

Works nicely - and yes I agree the Herbert is a truely fantastic head, the best I've ever owned - for me it beat the VH4 and that takes some doing!

 

[MikeToddOnline]

[No message]

 

[MikeToddOnline]

Hey thanks for all your responses, dudes! We Diezel owners/users are the Elite of the equipment world!

 

[kahawe]

Looks good!
(in case the question ever pops up whether plugging just one cab into either the right or the left "8Ohm" output matters... no it doesnt)

And damn, now I want a Diezel cab!

 

[MikeToddOnline]

As a guy whose owned Marshalls and Mesas (cabinets) over the years, I can tell you these Diezels are built like Panzer Tanks and sound AMAZING! The silver piping looks super cool and the quality is just over the top. WELL worth the extra coin, just like the Diezel heads.
Andy Wood claims the Front Loaded with G12K-100s are better with the Herbert, I am considering adding that and if I like it better I'll sell my Rear Loaded. Hit me up in a few months if youre interested, mine's nearly brand new and totally cherry mint but I wanna try the other before I'd sell mine!