bogner tj or diezel hagen ?

[hopkinWFG]

may I know of which would be a gain monster? tight huge low end,sweet mids soothing clear sweet treble and a very straight to face gain structure without the sizzle ?

 

[glpg80]

may I know of which would be a gain monster? tight huge low end,sweet mids soothing clear sweet treble and a very straight to face gain structure without the sizzle ?

no sizzle? Elaborate a bit, both amps have a bit of "sizzle" to them. tight? TJ. soothing mids? thats more like a mark series amplifier..... based on your description neither amplifier would fit

 

[hopkinWFG]

may I know of which would be a gain monster? tight huge low end,sweet mids soothing clear sweet treble and a very straight to face gain structure without the sizzle ?

no sizzle? Elaborate a bit, both amps have a bit of "sizzle" to them. tight? TJ. soothing mids? thats more like a mark series amplifier..... based on your description neither amplifier would fit

soothing sweet clear treble .. not too harsh ..sweet mids..i heard the herbert would sound clear on gain without sizzles just pure ? not fuzzy?

 

[glpg80]

may I know of which would be a gain monster? tight huge low end,sweet mids soothing clear sweet treble and a very straight to face gain structure without the sizzle ?

no sizzle? Elaborate a bit, both amps have a bit of "sizzle" to them. tight? TJ. soothing mids? thats more like a mark series amplifier..... based on your description neither amplifier would fit

soothing sweet clear treble .. not too harsh ..sweet mids..i heard the herbert would sound clear on gain without sizzles just pure ? not fuzzy?

the TJ has a pretty insane fuzzy character on top of your notes but does clear up on single note runs or if you back the gain down, but it is worse than a dual rectifier in that regards, just an FYI.

clear treble i believe the hagen has that character trait a bit more but that would be a tough call to make without playing both side by side or depending on what other amplifiers you are used to or comparing it to directly.

Your post does not mention anything about a herbert, just Hagen or TJ. amp for amp i would take the TJ over the Hagen. The Hagen is either a love it or hate it amplifier. Rig-talk is pretty divided on this subject - some hate it, others swear by it. In reality i prefer the TJ over it and do not like the Hagen voicing, but based on your requirements i really would not recommend either amplifier - but the TJ would be somewhat closer to what you are looking for depending on what tubes it is loaded with or what amplifiers you are coming from.

Also if cleans are important to you at high volume, TJ owners will be the first to admit that this is the TJ's major flaw - cleans at low volume are alright but tough to keep sparkling at higher volumes when keeping up with channel II.

 

[hopkinWFG]

thanks for the info feeding.. so lets set the herbert in for a comparison.. but ill like to know does the tj or herbert or hagen soumded more raw ?

 

[colimofsmoke]

Herbert is a soul destroying beast from hell. I wouldn't say it had soothing clear treble and def not sweet mids. It is a highly compressed stomach pummeling monster. It's hard to get much mids from it at all. The clean channel is very clear however. Piano like. Tj is more organic sounding and warmer/crunchier to my ears. If you want clear tones and awesome mids from a modern high gain I say Engl Powerball II.

 

[gtr31]

OP when you talk smooth mids, as in not biting an no top end sizzle. It sounds as if you are looking for a Darker more low mid focused amp

For what you want a 20th Bogner Shiva if you wanted to stay Bogner.
Could Go Mesa Mrk V or VI .
A Landry M series ,Diezel Einstein maybe

when I think less bite darker no Sizzle .I think Bogner, Mesa, Egnater

 

[hopkinWFG]

the shiva sounded most raw but not as modern type,tones if not wrong its more old school amp design..from the clips I,heard

 

[glpg80]

thanks for the info feeding.. so lets set the herbert in for a comparison.. but ill like to know does the tj or herbert or hagen soumded more raw ?

herbert mark I and mark II's sound their best under a mic IMHO - that is where they shine. They are great bedroom amplifiers too. I believe the VH4 or VH4S would be a better recommendation if you were considering playing live or in a band setting. Herberts and their mid-cut feature make it too easy to drown yourself out by crashes/cymbals or just drop out of the mix in general. As far as the herbert's gain is concerned it is very complex sounding - there's alot going on in there and therefore it does not have the fuzzy character trait at all. It also handle drop tunings very well and exert a very controlled type of character trait whereas i feel like the twin-jet is more of a rage-in-a-cage type of amplifier due to it being a very tight amplifier (i prefer my amplifiers that way, select based on your own preferences). Hagen i cannot speak of - have not spent any time with one and never really cared to - i suggest you play one if at all possible or at least listen to well recorded clips before making a decision concerning that amplifier.

 

[glpg80]

To be honest every amplifier mentioned in this topic is a complete gain monster and can deliver whatever you throw at them - no matter the genre or the playing style. But each amplifier will cater to the needs differently of each player as each player has their own preferences in how the amplifiers feel and also perform in certain situations.

 

[hopkinWFG]

so thats the herbert there not giving the sizzle when at high gain.. but does it have thr springy bloomy tone? please eleborate on herbert mystical gain structure .. however am only a bedroom guitarist but am big fan on these amps like diezels bogner and of course fryette

 

[glpg80]

so thats the herbert there not giving the sizzle when at high gain.. but does it have thr springy bloomy tone? please eleborate on herbert mystical gain structure .. however am only a bedroom guitarist but am big fan on these amps like diezels bogner and of course fryette

theres nothing to elaborate on. Its a complex type of gain/sound and not simple, like krank amplifiers for example.

If you're only a bedroom guitarist you will be missing out big-time on what these amps can really do. They really shine when you can crank them up

 

[hopkinWFG]

how much can speakers give in for amount of volume you set ?

 

[gtr31]

so thats the herbert there not giving the sizzle when at high gain.. but does it have thr springy bloomy tone? please eleborate on herbert mystical gain structure .. however am only a bedroom guitarist but am big fan on these amps like diezels bogner and of course fryette

Fryette and VHT is one for you if you are a metal guy for sure. they are super tight super percussive don't really have that sizzle and a ton of gain.

Another company you may not know of is Peters amps out of Canada .His Hydra, Gryphon .The are known for incredible master vloume with a taper that sounds great at bedroom or stage volume .
If you dont need a clean or addl channel around $2000 on a single ch

 

[dwizted]

The herbert gets bashed for not cutting through the mix, but it will cut through like a knife just depends how you eq it. The thing about the herbert is that it has the midcut feature and sounds like no other amp sounds like. You have to really spend some time with it. Most guys have a hard time with it couse it sounds insane but its not gonna cut with it engauged. Turn it off and you have a mix like any other high quality amp. Like I said before it is a feature that other amps cant replicate as of yet. The herbert will get you pretty much any tone you would like from one of the most killer clean tones to one of the most brutal tones and everything in between, if you take the time to find out its adjustment levals...

 

[colimofsmoke]

^ I agree with this. I just wouldn't say it had "smooth mids"

 

[Ventura]

I think the biggest issue with this thread is the subjectiveness and ambiguity of the descriptors being thrown around...
Smooth
Sizzle
Mids
Treble

Everyone's ears hear differently.

I'll say that of the amps mentioned in this thread, any of 'em will get you to where you probably need to go.

 

[colimofsmoke]

I think the biggest problem wih this thread is the idea of buying a 180 watt amp for a bedroom amp.

 

[Red_Label]

Herbert is a soul destroying beast from hell. I wouldn't say it had soothing clear treble and def not sweet mids. It is a highly compressed stomach pummeling monster. It's hard to get much mids from it at all. The clean channel is very clear however. Piano like. Tj is more organic sounding and warmer/crunchier to my ears. If you want clear tones and awesome mids from a modern high gain I say Engl Powerball II.

Exactly what I was gonna post when I saw the thread title!

I've owned or had in my possession some great mid-high gain amps (including the TJ, VHT UL, etc) and the Powerball 2 that I own right now is by far my favorite. Tight gain, but some sweet mids. LOVE the mid-boost feature as well as the dual master volumes. This amp is truly awesome and versatile. I've also owned some versatile amps (XTC, Triamp, etc) and the Engl puts 'em to shame for sheer versatility IMO. I can do country on the clean channel, ACDC on crunch, and Alterbridge on the two high-gain channels. Another thing that struck me the very first time I plugged into the Powerball II at the local fun store was how great it sounded at low volume. The amp truly left a mark on me the moment I plugged in and I was smitten.

 

[Ventura]

I think the biggest problem wih this thread is the idea of buying a 180 watt amp for a bedroom amp.

There is that, too