Bogner XTC 100B or early XTC 101B. Which one should I keep?

[fucduperinchit]

I have a 1993 XTC 100B and a 95 XTC 101B - both with white chassis. I love both amps, and there are functions that one has but the other does not. I love the cabinet switching of the 101B - but I also love the variac feature of the 100B. They both sound pretty much the same in terms of tone and feel, so it's a difficult choice. The 101B has a better clean channel for sure. If the 101B also had the variac, it would be an easy decision. I just can't seem to justify having so much money out on two amps that are so close to each other in terms of tone. My 100B also has the coverless OT just like the three in Reinhold's personal 100B collection.

 

[roodboy]

Keep the 100b.
Although if I had the $ I would say sell the 100b so I could buy it.

 

[supersonic]

100B

 

[hunter]

If blue and red are the same on both but the 101 has a better green, I'd go with the 101. I never liked the green channel on the 100b. Can the 101b break up a bit on the green? Does it do that blooming tone for cleans?

Money wise the market is total ass, so in fact from that perspective you should keep both until the market is better again.

 

[russellconner]

i say keep both. unless you REALLY NEED to free up some cash, dont worry about how much money is tied up in them.

right now, you have two amps you absolutely love. so what if theyre similar? maybe your tastes and preferences are focused enough that you only need amps like them.

ive had my dual rec (rev F) since '94, and my uber (rev 2) since '04.

- are they similar? yep.
- could one pretty much replace the other in a one amp situation? yep.

here's what matters to me, though:

- i cant choose a favorite between them.
- im just as happy cranking either one to jam on.
- i would miss either one if i sold it, and constantly kick myself because they are classics (at least, in my biased opinion) and very difficult to replace. - like yours

if you want to buy something new, wait until you can generate new money to do it with. if you bring it home and it makes you fall out of love with one of the boggies, you can sell one (or give it me, in exchange for this invaluable advice ). if it doesnt, you still have your two favorite amps in the world!

good luck,

russell

 

[se7en]

If blue and red are the same on both but the 101 has a better green, I'd go with the 101. I never liked the green channel on the 100b. Can the 101b break up a bit on the green? Does it do that blooming tone for cleans?

Money wise the market is total ass, so in fact from that perspective you should keep both until the market is better again.

Yeah, if you don't need the cabinet switching, or value the clean channel of the 101 more than that ability, then I'd keep the 101. Yes, the market blows, but maybe you can make a trade...

 

[fucduperinchit]

If blue and red are the same on both but the 101 has a better green, I'd go with the 101. I never liked the green channel on the 100b. Can the 101b break up a bit on the green? Does it do that blooming tone for cleans?

Money wise the market is total ass, so in fact from that perspective you should keep both until the market is better again.

The green channel on the 101B is WAY better than the 100B. Nice break-up and bloom is there. The 100B clean is good, but I would rather have the 101B clean in the 100B. I didn't care for the green channel in my 2007 101B XTC though. It was good, but I prefer the green channel on the early white chassis 101B. It sounds a bit more "alive" IMO. More "plexi-like" - if that makes any sense?

 

[Dave K]

I'm surprised to hear you say they both have the same basic tone. I know both circuits, though I've only worked on two 100B's,but many 101's, and I think the 100 is a much rawer, aggressive amp, while the 101 is more refined and articulate.
Sucks if you have to let one go !

 

[fucduperinchit]

I'm surprised to hear you say they both have the same basic tone. I know both circuits, though I've only worked on two 100B's,but many 101's, and I think the 100 is a much rawer, aggressive amp, while the 101 is more refined and articulate.
Sucks if you have to let one go !

Are you referring to the early white chassis 101B, or the the current design? It would be more likely that you would have worked on more 100B models since there are only 100 x white chassis 101's in existence vs 150 x 100B's.

From my experience the white chassis 101B much closer to the 100B than the later black chassis model XTC. I think the white chassis models used different transformers, but I'm not sure. If you search my posts you will see that I compared the 100B to an "Alice In Chains" vibe, and the 101B white chassis to a "Stone Temple Pilots" type vibe... Both are excellent. The 101B almost sounds a bit EQ'd to me. I love it!

I owned a new 2007 101B and ended-up selling it after 1 month. I don't want to go into why I sold it... I'll just say that it didn't work for me.

 

[FortinAmps]

I have a 1993 XTC 100B and a 95 XTC 101B - both with white chassis. I love both amps, and there are functions that one has but the other does not. I love the cabinet switching of the 101B - but I also love the variac feature of the 100B. They both sound pretty much the same in terms of tone and feel, so it's a difficult choice. The 101B has a better clean channel for sure. If the 101B also had the variac, it would be an easy decision. I just can't seem to justify having so much money out on two amps that are so close to each other in terms of tone. My 100B also has the coverless OT just like the three in Reinhold's personal 100B collection.

Call Bogner and ask if they would add the variac mod to your 101B.

 

[fucduperinchit]

I have a 1993 XTC 100B and a 95 XTC 101B - both with white chassis. I love both amps, and there are functions that one has but the other does not. I love the cabinet switching of the 101B - but I also love the variac feature of the 100B. They both sound pretty much the same in terms of tone and feel, so it's a difficult choice. The 101B has a better clean channel for sure. If the 101B also had the variac, it would be an easy decision. I just can't seem to justify having so much money out on two amps that are so close to each other in terms of tone. My 100B also has the coverless OT just like the three in Reinhold's personal 100B collection.

Call Bogner and ask if they would add the variac mod to your 101B.

I never even thought of that. Good call!

I've heard that Bogner isn't doing as many mods as they use to? I think they've also stopped making the 101B Classic. I thought that was one of their most popular custom amps?

 

[RSRD]

Only you can answer this question. Gotta search deep and picture yourself without both. Which do you miss more?

Not a fun decision. Good luck!

 

[se7en]

I have a 1993 XTC 100B and a 95 XTC 101B - both with white chassis. I love both amps, and there are functions that one has but the other does not. I love the cabinet switching of the 101B - but I also love the variac feature of the 100B. They both sound pretty much the same in terms of tone and feel, so it's a difficult choice. The 101B has a better clean channel for sure. If the 101B also had the variac, it would be an easy decision. I just can't seem to justify having so much money out on two amps that are so close to each other in terms of tone. My 100B also has the coverless OT just like the three in Reinhold's personal 100B collection.

Call Bogner and ask if they would add the variac mod to your 101B.

I never even thought of that. Good call!

I've heard that Bogner isn't doing as many mods as they use to? I think they've also stopped making the 101B Classic. I thought that was one of their most popular custom amps?

According to their website, the 20th Ann. XTC replaced the Classic.

 

[fucduperinchit]

Ah! That explains it. Seems more players prefer the 20th Shiva though... I obviously have more amp shopping to do.

I am LOVING the clean channel on the 100B! It's not as versatile as the 101B, but it's so pure sounding. Rings like a bell! Reminds me of an old Fender Twin I had back in the late 70's. To be fair I need to put a 12AX7 into the PI position of the 100B. I have a 5751 in there now, and that could be throwing everything off? I use to run a couple of these in my Boogie Mark IIC+ to help smooth it out a bit. I have lots of testing to do before I make a decision.

BTW - I have the bias adjusted to 33mA. That's 70% of MPD @ 525 plate voltage. Seems like it could use a bit more bias... Opinions?

 

[se7en]

If you like a hotter bias, try 35 - 36mA...should get you real close. I tend to prefer a somewhat colder bias on my Bogners, but that's me. I honestly like the 20th Ecstasy as much as the Shiva...I like the lead and rock rhythm tone on the Ecstasy better and the Shiva hard rock/metal rhythm and clean channel better...The XTC is plenty tight for me...makes me wonder where TME's bias was set. I was thinking of grabbing a quad of KT77's but am concerned it may actually make it too stiff. The new Ecstasy and Shiva are definitely a step towards more of a crunchy Marshall tone. Just what I was hoping for from the company. No complaints here. Your amps ain't too shabby either. I'd love to hear the white chassis 101b, because it seems there's been some mixed thoughts with it as well.

 

[fucduperinchit]

If you like a hotter bias, try 35 - 36mA...should get you real close. I tend to prefer a somewhat colder bias on my Bogners, but that's me. I honestly like the 20th Ecstasy as much as the Shiva...I like the lead and rock rhythm tone on the Ecstasy better and the Shiva hard rock/metal rhythm and clean channel better...The XTC is plenty tight for me...makes me wonder where TME's bias was set. I was thinking of grabbing a quad of KT77's but am concerned it may actually make it too stiff. The new Ecstasy and Shiva are definitely a step towards more of a crunchy Marshall tone. Just what I was hoping for from the company. No complaints here. Your amps ain't too shabby either. I'd love to hear the white chassis 101b, because it seems there's been some mixed thoughts with it as well.

I have heard good things about both 20th Bogner models. I played a Shiva briefly, but never got to open her up!

Seems like a lot of guys are using the KT's now. I don't really have any interest in trying them, as I might make my decision that much more difficult. I will say that both the 100B and early 101B sound much closer to Marshall than my 2007 101B did. That amp was too compressed sounding for me? Plus, the red channel was just too "over-the-top" in terms of gain. I couldn't get the blue and red channels to "jell" properly? I was getting a lot of fizzies out of the red channel also. Maybe it just needed a bit of tweaking? Two of the FS LED's burned-out in a span of 3 days! I got the repair parts form Bogner - fixed it - then sold it.

I know these early amps have different transformers in them, but I don't know how that really lends to the differences in tone? Like I said, these (especially the 100B) sound closer to Marshall to my ear. The 2007 blue channel was the shit!

 

[fucduperinchit]

I think the 100B is the keeper. Not that it sounds that much better really - but it is a more straight-forward amp. The less switches the better I always say.

The 101B is like the ultimate studio amp vs. the more aggressive "live" sound of the 100B. It has so many options on it, plus the cab the cab switching is really cool. I'm now liking the 100B clean channel better than the 101B clean. It doesn't break-up, but I can use a pedal in front for that. I changed the PI tube from 5751 to 12AX7, and seems to have made difference overall. If there's more transparency in the 100B, the clean channel is where I'm hearing it most.

Question is, is now the time to list it? It would be nice to make a small profit, but that's really not a big deal to me.

 

[FortinAmps]

I have a 1993 XTC 100B and a 95 XTC 101B - both with white chassis. I love both amps, and there are functions that one has but the other does not. I love the cabinet switching of the 101B - but I also love the variac feature of the 100B. They both sound pretty much the same in terms of tone and feel, so it's a difficult choice. The 101B has a better clean channel for sure. If the 101B also had the variac, it would be an easy decision. I just can't seem to justify having so much money out on two amps that are so close to each other in terms of tone. My 100B also has the coverless OT just like the three in Reinhold's personal 100B collection.

Call Bogner and ask if they would add the variac mod to your 101B.

I never even thought of that. Good call!

I've heard that Bogner isn't doing as many mods as they use to? I think they've also stopped making the 101B Classic. I thought that was one of their most popular custom amps?

Don't email them about it, give them a call and explain your situation, they might go against their policy and mod yours for you. They have great customer service.
Cheers,
Mike

 

[Red_Label]

Question is, is now the time to list it? It would be nice to make a small profit, but that's really not a big deal to me.

Now is ONLY the time to list it if you don't mind getting a fraction of what you'd be getting during a normal market (and don't expect things to get worse or drag-out for a long time).

The market is horrible and has been that way for at least the past year. And I don't see any reason that it will be going back up for years. So if money isn't short and you don't have something specific that you're looking to replace the 101B with, then I wouldn't sell at this time. If however you do have something that you're eyeing, you could trade the 101B (obviously it has a very high trade value) to someone and take such hit as you would with a sale. Your amp is rare enough that it's still going to command more than other boutique amps that were produced in larger numbers.

Right now is just a HORRIBLE time to be selling gear... especialy boutique gear. I picked-up my mint used XTC Classic a year ago for $2200, thinking it was a "steal". But I've seen XTCs go cheaper since then. It's just BAD out there right now...

 

[fucduperinchit]

Question is, is now the time to list it? It would be nice to make a small profit, but that's really not a big deal to me.

Now is ONLY the time to list it if you don't mind getting a fraction of what you'd be getting during a normal market (and don't expect things to get worse or drag-out for a long time).

The market is horrible and has been that way for at least the past year. And I don't see any reason that it will be going back up for years. So if money isn't short and you don't have something specific that you're looking to replace the 101B with, then I wouldn't sell at this time. If however you do have something that you're eyeing, you could trade the 101B (obviously it has a very high trade value) to someone and take such hit as you would with a sale. Your amp is rare enough that it's still going to command more than other boutique amps that were produced in larger numbers.

Right now is just a HORRIBLE time to be selling gear... especialy boutique gear. I picked-up my mint used XTC Classic a year ago for $2200, thinking it was a "steal". But I've seen XTCs go cheaper since then. It's just BAD out there right now...

Understood.

The state of the economy is getting a bit scary. A lot of the stores and strip-malls in our area are now totally vacant. They were thriving just 3 years ago... Now - nothing! I was going to shoot some video of these areas, and then post them on YouTube; but who would really care? If it's happening here, I'm sure it's happening everywhere. We have a lot of homeless people that are starting to show-up around many of the grocery stores. I'm no liberal, but there's just something not quite right with what's going on.