Bogner XTC 101b/RJM RG-16 cable. sometimes cant get to red

[boof]

Any and all,

If anyone can offer assistance to this problem it would be greatly appreciated.
I have a bogner xtc custom 101b and use an RJM RG16 cable to change channels, fx loop and so on hooked up to one of the amp jacks on the RJM RG-16.
What I have noticed is that is sometimes wont change to the red channel. The function light (3) changes, and I can hear the "click" of the relay but the bogner just sits there is whatever channel I was previously on.
This doesn't happen all the time, just most of the time. When I power on all the gear cold it seems to change to the red channel no problems for about the first 45 minutes to an hour. Then it starts to "miss" and after about three hours of playing Im lucky to get it to change to the red channel once every 50 tries. This is regardless of if i use the foot controller or manually press the function 3 button on the RG-16. What I have tried to trouble shoot this so far is.

1. replace the 7 pin midi cable from the foot controller to the RG-16 and use a 5 pin cable and a wall wart directly to the rocktron all access (remove the phantom power from the picture)
2. tried changing the amp selector on the back from the RG-16 from amp 1 to amp 2 and back and forth.
3 tried to use a different bogner (i have another older 101b in the house) same results
4. manually pressing the red channel on the back of the amp (no problem)
5. using the bogner foot switch (no problem as I would have expected since the problem was reproducible on both bogners)

I guess that the issue is with the cable or the RJM itself. I don't have an extra of either of those so I can test that point.
Has anyone had the same experience or have any trouble shooting suggestions? Its really starting to get frustrating.
In advance thanks.

Boof

also posted over at the bogner forum
http://bognerampforum.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=1121

 

[zewango]

I've read actually changing the LED sometimes solves problems with the footswitch. Do a search at the Bogner forum.

 

[boof]

I think I might have figured out the problem. I think that the relay for function 3 (that controls the red channel) is hosed. when the problem occurs the "clicking" sound isn't there.

 

[vchizzle]

I think I might have figured out the problem. I think that the relay for function 3 (that controls the red channel) is hosed. when the problem occurs the "clicking" sound isn't there.

That's possible, but it still might be the cable going from the head to the RJM. If the cable isn't transmitting data to the RJM, you wouldn't hear the relay. Don't get me wrong, it could be the relay, but it seems more likely to be a cable issue.

I had a similar problem with ground control pro/gcx. I'd switch patches on the GCP, but they wouldn't change on the GCX. I even tried another old midi cable that had previously worked, same problem. Bought a new midi cable - problem gone.

I'd give RJM a call and ask what they think, they may even try to trouble shoot with you? Worth a shot at least.

 

[boof]

I think I might have figured out the problem. I think that the relay for function 3 (that controls the red channel) is hosed. when the problem occurs the "clicking" sound isn't there.

That's possible, but it still might be the cable going from the head to the RJM. If the cable isn't transmitting data to the RJM, you wouldn't hear the relay. Don't get me wrong, it could be the relay, but it seems more likely to be a cable issue.

I had a similar problem with ground control pro/gcx. I'd switch patches on the GCP, but they wouldn't change on the GCX. I even tried another old midi cable that had previously worked, same problem. Bought a new midi cable - problem gone.

I'd give RJM a call and ask what they think, they may even try to trouble shoot with you? Worth a shot at least.

right point taken. if the pin/wire for that function is fired and isnt sending the signal then the channel wouldn't change. the only thing that makes me still think its the relay is that when I manually press the function button on the RJM I don't hear the relay click and that makes me lean towards the problem being with the relay. but I am just about to give Ron a call and he has already been giving me suggestions on how to test via email. seriously the guy is great for helping people out.

 

[boof]

I think I might have figured out the problem. I think that the relay for function 3 (that controls the red channel) is hosed. when the problem occurs the "clicking" sound isn't there.

That's possible, but it still might be the cable going from the head to the RJM. If the cable isn't transmitting data to the RJM, you wouldn't hear the relay. Don't get me wrong, it could be the relay, but it seems more likely to be a cable issue.

I had a similar problem with ground control pro/gcx. I'd switch patches on the GCP, but they wouldn't change on the GCX. I even tried another old midi cable that had previously worked, same problem. Bought a new midi cable - problem gone.

I'd give RJM a call and ask what they think, they may even try to trouble shoot with you? Worth a shot at least.

I just talked to Ron. based on some more testing that I did he said that it points to the relay is toasted. Very cool of him though, he is going to put some spares in the mail for me today.

Boof.

 

[Tone Merchant]

Ron is awesome. Hope it works out for u

 

[boof]

I worked with Ron via email and phone and did more testing.
Testing that I did is below. In the end Ron was nice enough to send out some parts that he thought would be the culprits and recommended that I replace on chip in particular, the omron g6h-2 12vdc chip that was on K11 and that seems to have done the trick. While I havent done any kind of real testing since I have yet to have the problem in regular playing. So if anyone comes across teh same problem perhaps the same fix will work for them as well.

Test 1. Reproducing the problem while foot controller and RG-16 are using separate power supply (no phantom power)
This was confirmed in my previouslyl. All testing was done with the Rocktron using its own wall wart and the RG-16 using its own wall wart (CAJ 9VAC 1.2A) The problem started about 40 minutes after amp and RG had been powered on.

Test 2. Reproducing the problem and removing the RG-16 cable and using the bogner foot switch. This test was done tonight.
A. 0:00 Furman said 103V at time of power on.
B. 0:20 Went to 104v after 20 min.
C. 1:00 Could not reproduce the problem after 1 hour of normal playing (changing channels at random times, take 5 minutes here and there to go have a smoke)
D. 1:15 Turned on the 2:90 power amp in the same rack (I usually triamp).
E. 1:23 Problem started 1 hour and 23 minutes after power on 40 "misses" within the next 20 minutes out of roughly 300 channel changes with increasing frequency
F. 1:45 the number of "misses out numbered the successful channel changes for a few minutes then went to about 70% hit 30% miss.
G. 1:50 changed to the bogner FC. 200 channel changes 0 "misses"
H. 2:00 changed to the RJM cable 100 channel changes 96 "misses"
I. 2:05 changed to the bogner FC. 100 channel changes 0 "misses"
J. 2:10 changed to the RJM cable. 100 channel changes 100 "misses"
K. 2:15 Powered down the bogner and the rack and went to eat dinner.

Test 3. Relay click on and click off. For this test I had to undo the grouping of the first three function switches as I wasn't able to tell if the relay was clicking off for the red channel since function switch 1 or 2 would also click as the relay would turn on.
A. 0:00 reset the RG-16 so no switches momentary or grouped and channels were assigned on the Rockton as three different program changes.
B. 0:05 RJM cable 200 channel patch changes 0 "misses"
C. 0:15 RJM cable 100 channel patch changes 1 "misses" I didnt do anything switched channels again and it worked the next program change
D. 0:20 RJM cable 100 channel patch changes 1 "misses" hard to tell but sounded like it did not click off. I changed to green or blue and it worked next program change *see note 1
E. 0:25 RJM cable 100 channel patch changes 1 "misses" did not click pressed the function 3 button on and off on and off and never "clicked"
F. 0:30 RJM cable 100 channel patch changes 1 "misses" did not click pressed the function 3 button on and off on and off and never "clicked"
G. 0:35 RJM cable I started to press the function buttons on the RG-16 itself and from random patterns was able to clearly tell that every time the red channel would not kick in I would not hear a click. I feel confidant to say that indeed there is no click when the issue happens.
H. 0:45 let the amp and RG-16 sit idle for a while.
J. 1:00 it seems that the problem is easy to reproduce at this point manually *see note2

note:1
when I get the function 3 button to fail and I have confirmed it isn't clicking by turning the function three button on and off a few times I turn the function 3 button on and then turn the function 2 button on so that both function 2 and function 3 are lit. this results in the blue channel only being active. when I then turn off the function 2 button the blue channel turns off and the red channel turns on and the function 3 button clicks on and off properly.

note:2 it is much easier to produce the problem when manually pushing the function buttons on and off manually from the RG-16. The problem occurs much less when making program changes on the Rocktron.

 

[John Busbee]

I can't say enough good about Ron, awesome guy and company.

 

[boof]

wow that was a long time ago. Ron was able to tell me exactly what the problem was and the parts he sent indeed took care of the problem. Never had an issue since and all the RJM gear I have is working perfectly.

 

[Giga]

Yep, I've had the same problem; one of the relays didn't work at all and one worked intermittently. Ron took great care of me and send some spare relays.

The board is easy to work on so no problems fixing it.

Giga