Buffers and signal chain question

[fearhk213]

I've never used a buffer, but I think I'm going to need one once I finish my rig. I understand buffers are designed to drive long runs of cable without tone loss. Am I correct in assuming one could string a few true-bypass pedals together and as long as they were off the tone should be the same as if you just went guitar-buffer-amp? If the pedals are not true bypass, will they still have a "negative" impact on the tone even with a buffer? Also, are buffers only for running stuff infront of amps or are the used in fx loops as well?

Thanks in advance.

 

[blackba]

With TB and buffers in general its a mix that is the best. Too many TB pedals and your signal gets weak. Too many buffers and they start to color your signal too much.

I like to put a pedal with a buffer early in the pedal chain and one late. For example, I like the Korg DT-10 tuner as a buffer, I put it right after my wah. I then have a Maxon AD-80 Analog Delay with a buffer at the end of my chain. There may be a pedal with a buffer or two thrown in the middle, but most are TB.

As for the loop, I don't find as much of an effect between buffers and TB in the loop. Your signal in the loop has gone through part of the preamp of the amp, so longer cable runs should not be as much of a concern in the loop. I had a line6 Verbzilla, which has a buffer that for me would suck tone in front of the amp, but was hardly noticable in the loop.

Here is a picture of one of my pedalboards. The buffer pedals are the Korg DT-10, Danelectro EQ, Maxon AD-80, and Line6 Verbzilla (old picture, TB Hermida Reverb in its place). The rest are TB. This is my board for amps with no effects loop.

Oh course too there are always other options, TB loopers, multieffects units, Axe-FX, etc.....

 

[glpg80]

I understand buffers are designed to drive long runs of cable without tone loss.

it has a voltage source, and basically "refreshes" the original AC signal to its original format from its source.

Am I correct in assuming one could string a few true-bypass pedals together and as long as they were off the tone should be the same as if you just went guitar-buffer-amp?

true bypass depends on the footswitch button you use and its relation to the output terminal. it would depend on how the circuit is wired, but if the signal is true bypass and does not touch any AD/DA chips inside the pedal, it is essentially a piece of wire, or a trace on a board from one point to the external 1/4" output of the pedal. again, it would depend on the pedal circuitry. but if a pedal is extremely true bypass, it will pass a signal from one side to the other whether the pedal is dead/battery-less, or is turned on. if the pedal refuses to pass the signal either with a dead battery or no 9V/12V/15V supply, then the AC signal output from your guitar is going through its circuitry, and its acting like a buffer and possibly robbing pure tone if you want to be picky about it.

If the pedals are not true bypass, will they still have a "negative" impact on the tone even with a buffer?

a buffer simply refreshes the original source AC voltage to its correct amplitude and shape - the shape is the variable depending on many variables like cable resistance for instance. amplitude buffering depends on how strong the source voltage is for a reference. depending on the buffer used, some will be 99.9% transparent. others will have a very very minute' effect on your tone, but its enough for rock and roll as they say. alot of times buffers are used live, and live recordings are not as particular as studio use. there are too many uncontrolled variables, and this is simply one of them.

Also, are buffers only for running stuff infront of amps or are the used in fx loops as well?

you would only need a buffer if you have locks of cable not being touched by anything electrical to refresh the AC signal. usually you will see them in low AC voltage lines like the input of a guitar amplifier. the equivalent of an AC buffer in DC form, is called a DC to DC converter and is usually used to step-up voltages in a much larger scale.

hope this helps.

-matt

 

[fearhk213]

Thanks for the input