Building an 80s Rack - Any Suggestions Regarding Lexicon?

[ChurchHill]

I've been pondering this question for about a month now, so I thought I'd ask what you all would suggest based on any experience you've had with any of the units.

First, for now, this is what's in the rack:

1. Furman PL8+ Power
2. Korg DTR-1 Tuner
3. Drawmer DS201 Noise Gate
4. RJM Music Effect Gizmo
5. Rane SM26S Mixer

6. Pedal Drawer - AnalogMan Beano Boost, MXR M177 Flanger, MXR Phase 90 Script, Dry Bell Vibe Machine
7. Dunlop DCR2-SR Rack Wah
8. dbx 160A compressor

9. TC Electronic 2290
10. TC Electronic 1210
11. Eventide H3000
12. Eventide GTR4000
13. Yamaha SPX90

14. Mesa Boogie Studio Pre
15. Mesa Boogie Switch Track 395

So, I'd like to add some Lexicon into the mix.

Back in the day, I used to want a PCM 70, mostly because it seemed like everybody had at least one of them. Compared to the later units, it's obviously somewhat limited, but they sound so good.

I've heard many good things about the PCM 80, namely that the converters are better. I don't put a lot of weight into that because the "lower spec" converters are part of what makes the H3000 sound better (in this case) than my Eclipse (in a different rack). I've found the settings for adding the "missing" presets from the PCM 70, so I'm not sure I'm really missing anything with the PCM 80, except that I'd have to find the PitchFX and/or DualFX card(s) to get the most out of this box.

The PCM 81 has the PitchFX and DualFX algorithms built in and is also capable of the "missing" presets from the PCM 70. This one seems the most versatile option, and I love having options. However, the convertors in this were upgraded again after the PCM 80's came out, which may or may not be as good as the PCM 70's converters mojo.

Finally, I already have the PCM 92 (currently in the rack with the Eclipse). I love the sounds I can get out of this box, but I think it's too modern, or maybe more accurately, it's not from the same period. Sometimes, I think limitations are the greatest assests.

Anyway, I'm hoping that someone here has experience with a few of these boxes and would be willing to share their expertise by comparing the strengths and weaknesses of any/all of these devices. I'm open to suggestion, too, but my goal here is to create an 80s "dream rack" using components that were available new in the late 80s and early 90s. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

-- --

 

[Zachman]

I had the PCM 80, and that unit died, so I replaced it w/ the PCM 81; which I prefer for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[ChurchHill]

Thanks, Zachman! That's basically where I'm leaning, too. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything bypassing the 70 and 80 without buying all 3 (which, given my past history, certainly isn't out of the question).

 

[Zachman]

Thanks, Zachman! That's basically where I'm leaning, too. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything bypassing the 70 and 80 without buying all 3 (which, given my past history, certainly isn't out of the question).

I LOVE the preset that loaded on the Lexicon in this pic:

Some fun w/ tones: https://soundcloud.com/mentoneman/zachrack-10-30-16

 

[Dave L]

The PCM81 doesn't have the Dual stuff, and that card is where it´s really at with those units. So a 81 with the Dual card is my suggestion.

 

[paulyc]

PCM 70 the circular delays are the shit !!!

 

[mooncobra]

check this lexicon, its only $5500!! the lexicon 960. I have never even heard of this before.

 

[Speeddemon]

PCM 70 the circular delays are the shit !!!

+1 for the PCM70; from my studio background, make sure it has V2.0 software, because of the magnificient Tiled Room preset.

Furthermore, if you add either (on the cheaper side) a Yamaha SPX-990 for fx, or for more $$$ an Eventide H3000 D/SE, you should be set.

I sold my SPX-990 though, although that 'Bamboo Room' preset was something else. Still have the PCM-70...'making due' with a Sony DPS-V77, until I get my hands on a Eventide Eclipse or H3000 D/SE. But all from a studio perspective; not a live-rack.

 

[ChurchHill]

Thank you, everyone, for your input! Sorry for the consolidated replies to specific posts... it's been a busy weekend. You've all definitely given me some things to consider... keep it coming!

I LOVE the preset that loaded on the Lexicon in this pic:

Some fun w/ tones: https://soundcloud.com/mentoneman/zachrack-10-30-16

Zachman, thanks for the heads-up on that preset. The algorithm that's based on seems like there could be a LOT of very usable sounds in there. And that clip sounds great! I love the ambient clouds that surround the notes yet always seem in tune and the huge but never intrusive reverb on the leads.

The PCM81 doesn't have the Dual stuff, and that card is where it´s really at with those units. So a 81 with the Dual card is my suggestion.

Dave L, you're absolutely right. The PCM81 includes the PitchFX but not the DualFX. I need to research the DualFX card more. I wasn't aware that it would also work with the 81... definitely sounds like what I'm looking for.

PCM 70 the circular delays are the shit !!!

paulyc, yeah, that's another great effect, as are the Pan Delays. I found an old post (2008) on HRI that details the settings from the PCM70. I've used that as the basis for several similar presets on several processors (PCM92, MXP1, several non-Lexicons). While I think they are close, to be fair, the PCM70 is where those started. I've seen suggestions that the presets can be precisely replicated on the PCM80/81, but I have no experience with that since I don't have either.

check this lexicon, its only $5500!! the lexicon 960. I have never even heard of this before.

mooncobra, yeah, that's quite a machine! Real high-end stuff for the period.

I've also considered the M300, which has more than just reverb, but I haven't been able to find one in a condition I'd seriously consider. If I could find a good one at a reasonable price...

+1 for the PCM70; from my studio background, make sure it has V2.0 software, because of the magnificient Tiled Room preset.

Furthermore, if you add either (on the cheaper side) a Yamaha SPX-990 for fx, or for more $$$ an Eventide H3000 D/SE, you should be set.

Speeddemon, I'd definitely look for V2.0 if I end up with a PCM70. Tiled Room is great, and from what I can tell from clips, the PCM92 gets close, but it's just not the original.

I've got an SPX-990, but it's in my studio rack. You're right, it's an excellent processor, which is why I don't want to take it out of that rack for this one. I probably should have mentioned the H3000 I'm using in this rack is a D/SE. I've also got the Studio Preset expansion library for my GTR4000. Black Hole on the 4000, IMHO, is just sublime compared to both the Eclipse and Space. All three are incredible, but there's just that extra bit of magic in the 4000.



I probably should have included a little more detail in my original post, but the rack I'm looking for the PCM70/80/81 for isn't really a live rack. If I had several roadies and a rather large truck, maybe... LOL! But it's really more of a collection of pieces that I used to dream about when I was young.

I also have a smaller guitar rack, with a PCM92, an Eclipse, and a Fulltone TERC, and a studio rack with a TC Fireworx & G-Major II, Lexicon LXP-15 II & MPX1, Roland GP-16, SDE-330, SDX-330, SRV-300 & SRV-2000, a Yamaha SPX-990 & REV-500, and a Korg SDD-1000.

 

[mentoneman]

I attempted to open my personal rack's lexicon account with a pcm 70 but it arrived damaged, so I switched gears to a pcm 80 and feel for guitar racks it or the 81 is the better choice due to wider multi-fx options. I have the pitch fx and dual fx cards, but normally stick to the pitch card loaded. would be great to have the 81 with those pitch fx already built in, and just leave the dual card perma-loaded.

I have the circular delay sysex preset for the pcm 80 on my laptop, and loaded it on Zach's 81 so you can ask him what he thinks about it.
honestly that preset is what I leave on when using my pcm 80 about 90 percent of the time.

I have just started fiddling with trying to create a tape delay preset on my 80 because the factory presets in that regard don't float my boat, but I've only just begun that one...


I did tweak on a really fun surround type effect a while back that responds very dynamically to the player's touch, and with the surround speed patched to the LFO with pivot points, subsequently patched the speed of the LFO to the input level, then finally added the now "must have" shimmer type verb effect blended in, also dynamically controlled.

if you want to hear the example of it, use headphones for this one or don't bother listening because the stereo phasing of the surround effect will sound disastrous on cheap laptop-esque or iPad speakers

 

[mentoneman]

PCM 70 the circular delays are the shit !!!

+1 for the PCM70; from my studio background, make sure it has V2.0 software, because of the magnificient Tiled Room preset.

Furthermore, if you add either (on the cheaper side) a Yamaha SPX-990 for fx, or for more $$$ an Eventide H3000 D/SE, you should be set.

I sold my SPX-990 though, although that 'Bamboo Room' preset was something else. Still have the PCM-70...'making due' with a Sony DPS-V77, until I get my hands on a Eventide Eclipse or H3000 D/SE. But all from a studio perspective; not a live-rack.

if it were simply being used in the studio exclusively the 70 would be cool, as would be the 91, but as a guitar rack unit, the 80/81 is more bang for the buck. the Tiled Room is a nice preset but there are tons of amazing rooms and halls etc in the 80/81/91.

 

[italoop]

Hi ChurchHill

if you really must go for a PCM70 DO get a V3.0 machine as it's a MUCH better unit. MIDI works great and several other problems have been fixed.
Presets from V2.0 are available online, if you search. And you can always ask on a forum about those 2 or 3 people use all the time.

PCM81 (possibly finding the DualFX card) is a great machine. You can do ALL the PCM70 does and a lot more. It sounds right, don't worry. The 92 and 96 are very different in their sound character, not the 80/81.

Studio Pre and 395 are cool! I run them for a while and loved both. Replaced the Studio witha TriAxis eventually.

Not even sure you really need the LExicons with all the gear you already have. The Eventide GTR4000 can do Circular delays and what not...

 

[Dror520]

I have the circular delay sysex preset for the pcm 80 on my laptop, and loaded it on Zach's 81 so you can ask him what he thinks about it.
honestly that preset is what I leave on when using my pcm 80 about 90 percent of the time.

Hey,

Do you mind sharing the sysex file of that preset?

Thanks!

 

[mentoneman]

I have the circular delay sysex preset for the pcm 80 on my laptop, and loaded it on Zach's 81 so you can ask him what he thinks about it.
honestly that preset is what I leave on when using my pcm 80 about 90 percent of the time.

Hey,

Do you mind sharing the sysex file of that preset?

Thanks!

try this link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7AgCH ... sp=sharing

 

[ChurchHill]

if it were simply being used in the studio exclusively the 70 would be cool, as would be the 91, but as a guitar rack unit, the 80/81 is more bang for the buck. the Tiled Room is a nice preset but there are tons of amazing rooms and halls etc in the 80/81/91.

mentoneman, while there's a chance I'll pick up a 70, too, I'd very likely put it in my studio rack. I know there are some great sounds there, but the versatility of the 80/81 is a strong selling point.

I've been looking at the Lexicon 300, too. While it's not as versatile, there are some stellar sounds in it (check out italoop's website under Eventide and Other Stuff if you haven't already). However, for my situation, I'm sure that one would get much more use in my studio.

BTW, that clip sounded awesome!

And thanks for that sysex file, too!

if you really must go for a PCM70 DO get a V3.0 machine as it's a MUCH better unit. MIDI works great and several other problems have been fixed.
Presets from V2.0 are available online, if you search. And you can always ask on a forum about those 2 or 3 people use all the time.

If I do look for a PCM70, I'll make sure to check the version or get an upgrade to v3. MIDI control is a bonus and definitely my preference, although not always a requirement. I've already found several of the "choice" presets and I'm sure I could find more.

PCM81 (possibly finding the DualFX card) is a great machine. You can do ALL the PCM70 does and a lot more. It sounds right, don't worry. The 92 and 96 are very different in their sound character, not the 80/81.

Excellent! That was what I needed to hear. If I can get that PCM70 sound character with the versatility of the PCM81, even without the DualFX card, then that's what I'm looking for.

Studio Pre and 395 are cool! I run them for a while and loved both. Replaced the Studio witha TriAxis eventually.

I've had the Studio Pre for 24 years now, and it's still my favorite amp. I have a lot of other amps that are just incredible, too, that are every bit as good (just different), but I always seem to come back to the Studio Pre. It was the first amp that I ever really bonded with, and that's probably why. The TriAxis is definitely a great pre, too, but I just keep coming back to the Studio Pre.

Not even sure you really need the LExicons with all the gear you already have. The Eventide GTR4000 can do Circular delays and what not...

Well, you just earned some points with my wife... LOL! The 4000 is a tremendous piece of kit! I probably use it more than anything else. Amazing reverbs, killer delays, so many things it does so well.
I'm wanting the Lexicon mostly because it's a different flavor and can do more than just reverb.

Basically, I'm trying to group sets of 4 presets into songs. 1 or 2 cleans, 1 rhythm, and 1 or 2 leads, each with differenct combinations of effects, all with spill. I'm trying to avoid any delay in switching patches, so I'm using any given combination of processors to arrive at this 4 "presets" per song idea. For example:

1. Clean with SPX running Pitch Change 3 detuner + 1210 + 2290 + 4000 running Black Hole.
2. Rhythm with PCM81 running a plate.
3. Lead 1 with 3000 running Reverse Shifters
4. Lead 2 with 1210 (same as #1) + 2290 (same as #1) + PCM81 (running the same plate as #2).

Obviously, there are a ton of combinations both within and between each processor, but that's the general idea for each song. Each of the 4 "presets" would actually be a series of MIDI CC commands sent to the switching system. Each "song" would actually be a set of MIDI PC messages that sets up the next set of 4 "presets." Hope that makes a little sense. Currently, I'm using a Voodoo Lab Ground Control with has 3 rows of 4 control switches. This was the best use of this configuration that works for what I do that I've come up with to date, although I'm sure there are others.

Finally, thanks again for your input here! You certainly know how to get the best out of these units!

 

[mentoneman]

to be clear the sysex file I shared above is a circular delay preset, not the one I used on the YT clip.

the sysex file from the clip is here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7AgC ... S1rWTAtN3M

but when I did that video clip my rig was configured a bit differently so the patch used to be more of a typical stereo preset and the korg dl8000 was blended in as a long modulated delay to carry the chord swells in the background. over time my rig became more tweaked towards a wdw type mentality so the patch reflects some of those changes now. still a decent place to start towards a lexicon level octave shimmer with a surround twist!

 

[italoop]

if it were simply being used in the studio exclusively the 70 would be cool, as would be the 91, but as a guitar rack unit, the 80/81 is more bang for the buck. the Tiled Room is a nice preset but there are tons of amazing rooms and halls etc in the 80/81/91.

mentoneman, while there's a chance I'll pick up a 70, too, I'd very likely put it in my studio rack. I know there are some great sounds there, but the versatility of the 80/81 is a strong selling point.

I've been looking at the Lexicon 300, too. While it's not as versatile, there are some stellar sounds in it (check out italoop's website under Eventide and Other Stuff if you haven't already). However, for my situation, I'm sure that one would get much more use in my studio.

Yes, the 80/81 has the "bang for the buck" factor... for all it does in a single box.
But since you mention the 300... and the 90/91 are in there too...

here are some of my news about REVERB... the Lexicon heritage.
A LOT of amazing verbs to listen to.
If one is serious about reverb, considering a dedicated reverb unit isn't a mistake; and some come cheap too.

Check these out:
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventi ... m90-91.asp

http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventi ... on-300.asp

 

[Dror520]

to be clear the sysex file I shared above is a circular delay preset, not the one I used on the YT clip.

the sysex file from the clip is here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7AgC ... S1rWTAtN3M

but when I did that video clip my rig was configured a bit differently so the patch used to be more of a typical stereo preset and the korg dl8000 was blended in as a long modulated delay to carry the chord swells in the background. over time my rig became more tweaked towards a wdw type mentality so the patch reflects some of those changes now. still a decent place to start towards a lexicon level octave shimmer with a surround twist!

Thanks!

 

[ChurchHill]

to be clear the sysex file I shared above is a circular delay preset, not the one I used on the YT clip. the sysex file from the clip is here:

mentoneman, thanks again!! Somehow, I was under the impression that the first preset was a circular delay. It's so cool of you to share the preset you used in the clip (albeit slightly modified), too!!

since you mention the 300... and the 90/91 are in there too...

here are some of my news about REVERB... the Lexicon heritage.
A LOT of amazing verbs to listen to.
If one is serious about reverb, considering a dedicated reverb unit isn't a mistake; and some come cheap too.

italoop, nice! I've been checking out your clips for at least the past few years, and recently your YT channel. I'm blown away with the "Oslo Hall" on both those pages, specifically, and the Random Hall algorithm in general. Just such a beautiful space! I've always thought that the notes one doesn't play are at least as important as the ones that are played, but no note or rest exists in a vacuum. Without the space around the note, the note loses its context; when rests are always expressed as silence, silence loses its meaning.


So, what I'm taking from this is:
1. I should obtain a PCM81 for my "80's" rack.
2. I should be on the lookout for the DualFX card.
3. The 300, or at least the PCM 90/91, would be a perfect addition to my studio rack.
4. I'm a reverb junkie...
5. I suffer from GAS... (now, there's a shocker!)

 

[italoop]

to be clear the sysex file I shared above is a circular delay preset, not the one I used on the YT clip. the sysex file from the clip is here:

mentoneman, thanks again!! Somehow, I was under the impression that the first preset was a circular delay. It's so cool of you to share the preset you used in the clip (albeit slightly modified), too!!

since you mention the 300... and the 90/91 are in there too...

here are some of my news about REVERB... the Lexicon heritage.
A LOT of amazing verbs to listen to.
If one is serious about reverb, considering a dedicated reverb unit isn't a mistake; and some come cheap too.

italoop, nice! I've been checking out your clips for at least the past few years, and recently your YT channel. I'm blown away with the "Oslo Hall" on both those pages, specifically, and the Random Hall algorithm in general. Just such a beautiful space! I've always thought that the notes one doesn't play are at least as important as the ones that are played, but no note or rest exists in a vacuum. Without the space around the note, the note loses its context; when rests are always expressed as silence, silence loses its meaning.


So, what I'm taking from this is:
1. I should obtain a PCM81 for my "80's" rack.
2. I should be on the lookout for the DualFX card.
3. The 300, or at least the PCM 90/91, would be a perfect addition to my studio rack.
4. I'm a reverb junkie...
5. I suffer from GAS... (now, there's a shocker!)

1/2/3 are facts!
4/5 are opinions... they don't matter...