Cameron jose mods vs.voodoo amp jose mods

[Digital Jams]

A speaker, barely moving, is lame........

I like this line very much.

 

[thiswaythatway]

All of the people who posted on that thread who:

A) Got a gain structure closest to VHI
B) Actually saw the internals of the amp

think that he essentially used a stock plexi that di not have a Jose mod. John Suhr confirmed that most of the solder joints were original, speciafically the ones that would have needed to be changed for the "Jose mod".

Pete Thorn and others clearly got enough gain out of a stock amp to do VH. We all know that numerous other factors go into a recorded tone on an album, but it was clear that a mod is unnecessary to reach the level of gain actually used by Ed.

Agree, you don't need a modded Marshall to get VH tones. However, it's extremely hard to get that VH tone without cranking the shit out of a Marshall and pissing off the whole neighborhood. Modded amps can get it much much easier and at lower gains.

I have never chased the VH tone but i did a clip with my Fortin and i think i got in the ballpark but the volume on my amp was lower then my TV at what i call a normal TV volume and it was at 11:00pm with my 1 year old sleeping upstairs. Try doing that with your stock Superlead.

i don't think it's physically possible to get vh tone at tv volumes because of the speaker aspect. if you are trying to decide if it sounds brown because the volume isn't there to clearly feel it, it's not brown.

a speaker, barely moving, is lame.

mark knows the vh factor and his amps reflect that core thing, even at the highest gain, similar to what is heard in mojave and vht amps. the midrange growl and clarity that spanks open.

never played a voodoo but trace is cool and i'd bet he could get some happening vh tone from his circuits as well.

As I've said before, I'm not a big VH tone chaser and I've never tried to cop the brown sound so I'm no authority on the subject. But i gave it a whirl and IMHO, and others as well, i at least got into the ballpark. And this is very very low volumes and with the gain on the amp very low, as you can tell since I'm struggling on playing leads. The speaker is a Scumback M75.

And FWIW, from recent Axe-Fx and 11r clips, I'll take a real amp anyday for trying to get the brown sound.

 

[TTripp]

Well, that's kind of the first commandment of VH tone chasing:

"Thou shalt not ever really get there."

Followed closely by "Thou shalt certainly not ever really get there in a straightforward and simple manner."

 

[mixohoytian]

according to Suhr, if he is correct
it IS the fingers

 

[Digital Jams]

according to Suhr, if he is correct
it IS the fingers

There is a guy that is not the best EVH player but from what he does play he NAILS the brown imo so I am going to have to respectfully disagree with Mr Suhr. Several guys here know who I am speaking about.

 

[mixohoytian]

I understand that metro amp kids can do all kinds of stuff to get Eddie's sound

but from what we've all read, it seems
Eddie was man enough to get his sound with his fingers

 

[thegame]

I have to disagree about the speakers needing being cranked. I personally hate speaker tone when they are pushed to their limit. The sound difference is also inaudible at those levels. I can crank a 4x12 loaded with 25's 30's 65's and 80's and I bet 99% couldn’t tell the difference with a SL cranked.

There's a huge range between a speaker barely moving, and being pushed to the limit. I think speakers sound best when they're loud, but not '100w amp on 10' loud. Its easy to lose perspective when things get too loud.

 

[mixohoytian]

I have to disagree about the speakers needing being cranked. I personally hate speaker tone when they are pushed to their limit. The sound difference is also inaudible at those levels. I can crank a 4x12 loaded with 25's 30's 65's and 80's and I bet 99% couldn’t tell the difference with a SL cranked.

There's a huge range between a speaker barely moving, and being pushed to the limit. I think speakers sound best when they're loud, but not '100w amp on 10' loud. Its easy to lose perspective when things get too loud.

I've come to realize that I only have true perspective when my mojave peacemaker is all the way up and killing my internal organs

 

[mentoneman]

I have to disagree about the speakers needing being cranked. I personally hate speaker tone when they are pushed to their limit. The sound difference is also inaudible at those levels. I can crank a 4x12 loaded with 25's 30's 65's and 80's and I bet 99% couldn’t tell the difference with a SL cranked.

There's a huge range between a speaker barely moving, and being pushed to the limit. I think speakers sound best when they're loud, but not '100w amp on 10' loud. Its easy to lose perspective when things get too loud.

yeah i wasn't suggesting diming the speakers, but there is a threshold beneath which any speaker isn't nearly as full, responsive, and musically dynamic in my experiences.
so the concept of bedroom or tv level suggests that speakers can give up the goods beneath where *i* believe good tone starts.
for me i can't get any decent tone at a level where my wife or kids would want to be in the same room as me talking or watching tv. we've tried this and it's a no go. enemies are formed.

with any amp i've tried TV/bedroom volume with, thin and dry come to mind.

which is why rockstah's mod of jeff H. epiphone valve jr. 5 watt amp is very intriguing. drop a hotplate behind it, into a low wattage blue or the like, and now we are possibly talking bedroom level. also this is another plus for the axefx. great DI to mixer/headphones tones for late night jamarooskis.

but yes maxed out speakers can be pretty one-dimensional at times also, particularly if there is a ton of bass end involved.

but mixo has a point about the dimed peacemaker....once you skim away the dross, separate the chaff from the wheat, and swirl and blend the test tubes to generate the proper color of appointments, the oily oink, chirp, and konk of the 'Maker leaves little left to crave.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I have to disagree about the speakers needing being cranked. I personally hate speaker tone when they are pushed to their limit. The sound difference is also inaudible at those levels. I can crank a 4x12 loaded with 25's 30's 65's and 80's and I bet 99% couldn’t tell the difference with a SL cranked.

There's a huge range between a speaker barely moving, and being pushed to the limit. I think speakers sound best when they're loud, but not '100w amp on 10' loud. Its easy to lose perspective when things get too loud.

yeah i wasn't suggesting diming the speakers, but there is a threshold beneath which any speaker isn't nearly as full, responsive, and musically dynamic in my experiences.
so the concept of bedroom or tv level suggests that speakers can give up the goods beneath where *i* believe good tone starts.
for me i can't get any decent tone at a level where my wife or kids would want to be in the same room as me talking or watching tv. we've tried this and it's a no go. enemies are formed.

with any amp i've tried TV/bedroom volume with, thin and dry come to mind.

which is why rockstah's mod of jeff H. epiphone valve jr. 5 watt amp is very intriguing. drop a hotplate behind it, into a low wattage blue or the like, and now we are possibly talking bedroom level. also this is another plus for the axefx. great DI to mixer/headphones tones for late night jamarooskis.

but yes maxed out speakers can be pretty one-dimensional at times also, particularly if there is a ton of bass end involved.

but mixo has a point about the dimed peacemaker....once you skim away the dross, separate the chaff from the wheat, and swirl and blend the test tubes to generate the proper color of appointments, the oily oink, chirp, and konk of the 'Maker leaves little left to crave.

I still liked my Fortin more than the Axe for low volumes, or any volume for that matter.

 

[Digital Jams]

I have to disagree about the speakers needing being cranked. I personally hate speaker tone when they are pushed to their limit. The sound difference is also inaudible at those levels. I can crank a 4x12 loaded with 25's 30's 65's and 80's and I bet 99% couldn’t tell the difference with a SL cranked.

There's a huge range between a speaker barely moving, and being pushed to the limit. I think speakers sound best when they're loud, but not '100w amp on 10' loud. Its easy to lose perspective when things get too loud.

yeah i wasn't suggesting diming the speakers, but there is a threshold beneath which any speaker isn't nearly as full, responsive, and musically dynamic in my experiences.
so the concept of bedroom or tv level suggests that speakers can give up the goods beneath where *i* believe good tone starts.
for me i can't get any decent tone at a level where my wife or kids would want to be in the same room as me talking or watching tv. we've tried this and it's a no go. enemies are formed.

with any amp i've tried TV/bedroom volume with, thin and dry come to mind.

which is why rockstah's mod of jeff H. epiphone valve jr. 5 watt amp is very intriguing. drop a hotplate behind it, into a low wattage blue or the like, and now we are possibly talking bedroom level. also this is another plus for the axefx. great DI to mixer/headphones tones for late night jamarooskis.

but yes maxed out speakers can be pretty one-dimensional at times also, particularly if there is a ton of bass end involved.

but mixo has a point about the dimed peacemaker....once you skim away the dross, separate the chaff from the wheat, and swirl and blend the test tubes to generate the proper color of appointments, the oily oink, chirp, and konk of the 'Maker leaves little left to crave.

I still liked my Fortin more than the Axe for low volumes, or any volume for that matter.

I am going to send Pat my Natas on my dime just so I can read the review from him

LIkes it or hates it the write-up will be epic!

 

[mentoneman]

I still liked my Fortin more than the Axe for low volumes, or any volume for that matter.

groovy. still haven't recreated the tube fur coat of my amps in the axe, and my little super champ xd or carol ann is sure simple and tasty compared to trying to hook up the axe rig for home use.

but the axe has it's place in my live world for sure. it replicates my triaxis/rocktron/tc 8 space rig tones/4 space 395 power amp/pedals/midiboard/2 passive cabs

in 4 space rack (axe+furman)/midiboard/tech 21+EV powered monitor...1/3 the rack spaces and 1/4 the weight overall

 

[thiswaythatway]

I have to disagree about the speakers needing being cranked. I personally hate speaker tone when they are pushed to their limit. The sound difference is also inaudible at those levels. I can crank a 4x12 loaded with 25's 30's 65's and 80's and I bet 99% couldn’t tell the difference with a SL cranked.

There's a huge range between a speaker barely moving, and being pushed to the limit. I think speakers sound best when they're loud, but not '100w amp on 10' loud. Its easy to lose perspective when things get too loud.

yeah i wasn't suggesting diming the speakers, but there is a threshold beneath which any speaker isn't nearly as full, responsive, and musically dynamic in my experiences.
so the concept of bedroom or tv level suggests that speakers can give up the goods beneath where *i* believe good tone starts.
for me i can't get any decent tone at a level where my wife or kids would want to be in the same room as me talking or watching tv. we've tried this and it's a no go. enemies are formed.

with any amp i've tried TV/bedroom volume with, thin and dry come to mind.

which is why rockstah's mod of jeff H. epiphone valve jr. 5 watt amp is very intriguing. drop a hotplate behind it, into a low wattage blue or the like, and now we are possibly talking bedroom level. also this is another plus for the axefx. great DI to mixer/headphones tones for late night jamarooskis.

but yes maxed out speakers can be pretty one-dimensional at times also, particularly if there is a ton of bass end involved.

but mixo has a point about the dimed peacemaker....once you skim away the dross, separate the chaff from the wheat, and swirl and blend the test tubes to generate the proper color of appointments, the oily oink, chirp, and konk of the 'Maker leaves little left to crave.

I still liked my Fortin more than the Axe for low volumes, or any volume for that matter.

I am going to send Pat my Natas on my dime just so I can read the review from him

LIkes it or hates it the write-up will be epic!

Am i going to see you on the 7th? I'm bringing 4 amps. 2 mine, and 2 belong to Danhops.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I still liked my Fortin more than the Axe for low volumes, or any volume for that matter.

groovy. still haven't recreated the tube fur coat of my amps in the axe, and my little super champ xd or carol ann is sure simple and tasty compared to trying to hook up the axe rig for home use.

but the axe has it's place in my live world for sure. it replicates my triaxis/rocktron/tc 8 space rig tones/4 space 395 power amp/pedals/midiboard/2 passive cabs

in 4 space rack (axe+furman)/midiboard/tech 21+EV powered monitor...1/3 the rack spaces and 1/4 the weight overall

My friend had a Carol Ann, i liked that amp a lot. It reminded me, a little bit, of my old IIC+, in that it had that sweet singing lead voice. We did boost it with a MIJ SD-1. Really nice amp for leads.

 

[mentoneman]

I am going to send Pat my Natas on my dime just so I can read the review from him

LIkes it or hates it the write-up will be epic!

i liken that potential encounter to that of a 2 year old hugging the business end of a firehose, cutting to and fro cross the summer sky, like a tattered kite in a gale.

 

[mentoneman]

...and this talk of volume reminded me of a ted nugent concert i attended...the loudest show i've been to by a wide margin. here was my recollections of that fateful eve in a "worst concert ever" thread i contributed to:

"my ears rang for 2 days after the nuge played hawaii. take one neaderthal man, add hollowbody, insert into a wall of dimed 100 watt dual showman. oh good call physics wizard.. the occasional feedback burst felt like darth vader running me through, ear to ear, with a light saber and rattling his wrist in circles once buried to the hilt for good measure.

then as if ted wasn't motivated enough to rob me of the ability to listen forever, some smashed military cat in the front row conjured a bronchial pilgrim with spine bending, knee-squeezing conviction, and hucked that beer enriched lung cookie the size of my fist and the color of mustard smack dab in the middle of terrible ted's forehead.

i was 26 row with bino's and saw the slow-mo ostrich yolk occlude my sightline, tomahawking end over end, shimmering in the spotlight and perching on the madman's bangs, pinning them to his aghast brow.

i had a 103 fever and actually gagged when it dawned on me what hapened

T unstrapped his wide open byrdland right then and there in the middle of cat scratch fever, and sledgehammered the fool on the thinker as he lept from the stage..KARRANG!!! amplified anger! and HEY! there's that neat vision altering feedback again!! SUPER!

i really don't think an overzealous referee climbing into my ear canal and blowing his whistle with all of his might directly on my conchlea could inflict as much bodily disharmony to my auditory senses as the nuge did that instant. and no army training on earth could recreate the coordinated effort of 5000 individuals cupping their ears as reflexively as was seen in that heart-stopping moment.

a fu manchu-ed sleeveless pink leopard shirted carmine appice scrambled from behind the kit and started palpating the nuge's loogieist on the head with the bottom of a mike stand. white wristbands turned pink then red and rained up and down on ol' Mucus mcCatipult until Theodore was satisfied with the ample serving of vengeance he doled out, and climbed back on stage to thank his samoan brothers up front for sharing in the punch fiesta, and complete the tune.

however the worst musical show ever was some blues band in a winnepeg dive...harmonica/vocal dude kept coughing like a kazoo to the point of drooling after the high notes, bass player could have made better music randomly twisting the tuning peg on one string, the drummer and guitar player looked like they were the ancient sleeveless love children of willam defoe and david crosby and madly in love with each other, and kept time like two nickels in the dryer.

and their one and only fan, a lone indian standing in the center of the dance floor, clapped out zappa time signatures with a toothless grin while quoting shave and a haircut with her bandaged foot. i've never seen thicker toenails in my life.

oh and edward wasn't whistlin dixie on the last roth reunion neither. but he did have nice teeth. "

 

[robertkoa]

It is POSSIBLE but difficult to get these tones or very close at Low Volume.

How do I know - because you can play BACK the tones at low volume from a recording and they are close.

Don't tell me about Fletcher-Munsen curves,power tube sag , speaker cone cry blah bla blah.

You can play BACK a recording of VH at low volume and the sound waves form patterns in the air and it's real close at low volume to his LOUD tones.

Therefore it IS POSSIBLE to approximate these tones at Low Volume thru an amp or RIG.

You might need a different type of speaker, etc etc for low volume, but you're dealing with sound waves in the air- so if VH sounds like VH at TV Volume on playback- you should be able to get real close at the same volume through a special RIG- the RIG may NOT be 4-12s with 10 lb. magnets- it may be a Monitor with cab emulation AFTER the Tube Head- just like what you PLAY BACK Van HALEN on - get it- I've been having this discussion for years with Amp Guys who say it's GOTTA be SUPER LOUD to get the TONE- well to get the TONE EXACTLY it may have to be super loud, but you can get close at lower volume.

Because you can play EVH BACK at Lower Volume and it's close.

Therefore you CAN get close at Low Volume because the low volume sound waves when you PLAY BACK VH or anyone else are just sound waves in the Air and you can get the same type of waves at a similar volume as PLAYBACK- and yes you MAY have to play thru a Monitor or special speaker ( maybe with the tweeter off) ( special EQ, Cab Emulation etc.).

But it's just science- I'm not saying it's EZ but it's POSSIBLE.

Obviously if you play back " Fair Warning " thru a 4-12 " and a tweeter array for the high end designed for a Stadium - it won't sound good at TV volume either- get my point?

IF you can PLAY BACK VH or EJ or HENDRIX at LOW VOLUME and they sound good - there MUST be SOME signal chain on the planet that will sound THAT GOOD at THAT VOLUME while you are playing.

Listen to the Video of EJ playing at low volume thru the little Fender Gdec amp- sounds like EJ, if it was EVH, probably same result. And we have MUCH better signal chains available than a Gdec .

 

[mentoneman]

i agree robert

i said something similar to a person asking me about the axe-fx. it "should" be able to sound like what i hear when i put on a landau or vh or ej CD, but everything unique to their rigs, their hands and how they play their tones, the recording chain, the mixdown....is not included in the price of the unit

-but-
we do have the benefit of these guys doing their homework and knowing how the end of the story sounds, so should be able to get there as you suggested. maybe it would take hiring EJ like fender did, and plugging his consultation into the equation. problem with vh is i'm not so sure he would be able to recreate his vh I/II tones by ear/playing test anymore. i'd hire rockstah for that.

tom scholz did it with his tone and the rockman.

 

[petejt]

tom scholz did it with his tone and the rockman.

Yup! Absolutely right!

 

[Digital Jams]

I have to disagree about the speakers needing being cranked. I personally hate speaker tone when they are pushed to their limit. The sound difference is also inaudible at those levels. I can crank a 4x12 loaded with 25's 30's 65's and 80's and I bet 99% couldn’t tell the difference with a SL cranked.

There's a huge range between a speaker barely moving, and being pushed to the limit. I think speakers sound best when they're loud, but not '100w amp on 10' loud. Its easy to lose perspective when things get too loud.

yeah i wasn't suggesting diming the speakers, but there is a threshold beneath which any speaker isn't nearly as full, responsive, and musically dynamic in my experiences.
so the concept of bedroom or tv level suggests that speakers can give up the goods beneath where *i* believe good tone starts.
for me i can't get any decent tone at a level where my wife or kids would want to be in the same room as me talking or watching tv. we've tried this and it's a no go. enemies are formed.

with any amp i've tried TV/bedroom volume with, thin and dry come to mind.

which is why rockstah's mod of jeff H. epiphone valve jr. 5 watt amp is very intriguing. drop a hotplate behind it, into a low wattage blue or the like, and now we are possibly talking bedroom level. also this is another plus for the axefx. great DI to mixer/headphones tones for late night jamarooskis.

but yes maxed out speakers can be pretty one-dimensional at times also, particularly if there is a ton of bass end involved.

but mixo has a point about the dimed peacemaker....once you skim away the dross, separate the chaff from the wheat, and swirl and blend the test tubes to generate the proper color of appointments, the oily oink, chirp, and konk of the 'Maker leaves little left to crave.

I still liked my Fortin more than the Axe for low volumes, or any volume for that matter.

I am going to send Pat my Natas on my dime just so I can read the review from him

LIkes it or hates it the write-up will be epic!

Am i going to see you on the 7th? I'm bringing 4 amps. 2 mine, and 2 belong to Danhops.

I am still waiting for further instructions from the war department