Did you know that thicker strings = lower action?

[bulletproof_funk]

It seems counter-intuitive but it's true. Many people would've guessed thicker strings means larger swing including myself.

http://www.frudua.com/guitar_strings_tension.htm

I had a feeling it was true since having 2 guitars strung with 10s that felt like it had lower action than my newest guitar with 9s, but I wasn't completely sure if it was something else like the setup since I wasn't familiar with the new axe yet. Sure enough going from 9s to 10s let me lower my strings down to a comfortable shredding height. Before the switch, I was always feeling like the strings were tinning out sounding really harsh and ice picky, especially on the upper frets, even though I had the action higher than my norm (it felt like I was pushing under adjacent strings on bends).

Seems the theory is higher tension (due to increased mass of the thicker string gauge) means less amplitude for the same frequency, length, energy (from picking), even though I haven't found any equations to confirm how or why it is.

Does anyone else already known this? It's a total revelation to me. I will never go back to 9s again!

 

[wIsEbLooD]

it is all relative to the tuning though.

 

[bulletproof_funk]

I should've mentioned I'm tuned to E standard. If you're outside of the 'nominal' tension range the string was made for where it's too loose or too tight then YMMV.

 

[voodooradio1]

It seems counter-intuitive but it's true. Many people would've guessed thicker strings means larger swing including myself.

http://www.frudua.com/guitar_strings_tension.htm

I had a feeling it was true since having 2 guitars strung with 10s that felt like it had lower action than my newest guitar with 9s, but I wasn't completely sure if it was something else like the setup since I wasn't familiar with the new axe yet. Sure enough going from 9s to 10s let me lower my strings down to a comfortable shredding height. Before the switch, I was always feeling like the strings were tinning out sounding really harsh and ice picky, especially on the upper frets, even though I had the action higher than my norm (it felt like I was pushing under adjacent strings on bends).

Seems the theory is higher tension (due to increased mass of the thicker string gauge) means less amplitude for the same frequency, length, energy (from picking), even though I haven't found any equations to confirm how or why it is.

Does anyone else already known this? It's a total revelation to me. I will never go back to 9s again!

I don't think that article was originally written in English.It has the feel of having been put through a translator. You are misunderstanding what is being said there. At standard pitch, a guitar could have the same action with 9's, as with 11's, provided that it was set up correctly for the gauge being used. They won't have the same feel though, due to the heavier string requiring greater tension to get to pitch.
What he is saying toward the end is that if you use drop tunings, a heavier string will serve you better.Light strings dropped by 1- 1 1/2 steps have so little tension that unless you play with a super light touch, they will rattle against the frets. Heavier strings dropped the same will be under more tension, vibrate less, and have a better feel.
I know what you mean about 9's. I always feel like I'm pushing them off the board. They mess with my chord work too, because I tend to bend them out of pitch.

 

[bulletproof_funk]

I don't think that article was originally written in English.It has the feel of having been put through a translator. You are misunderstanding what is being said there. At standard pitch, a guitar could have the same action with 9's, as with 11's, provided that it was set up correctly for the gauge being used. They won't have the same feel though, due to the heavier string requiring greater tension to get to pitch.
What he is saying toward the end is that if you use drop tunings, a heavier string will serve you better.Light strings dropped by 1- 1 1/2 steps have so little tension that unless you play with a super light touch, they will rattle against the frets. Heavier strings dropped the same will be under more tension, vibrate less, and have a better feel.
I know what you mean about 9's. I always feel like I'm pushing them off the board. They mess with my chord work too, because I tend to bend them out of pitch.

This is the part of the page I read near the beginning, I didn't misunderstand. In any case, I know the results I got in going from 9s to 10s: lower string height and the strings don't buzz out. With the 9s I had the neck relief from near straight to bowed and varied the bridge height but couldn't get the buzzing to go away, and it was worse on the upper frets with more relief.

While vibrating, the strings forms an elliptical pattern which is fixed at the anchor points (in the case of a guitar the nut and the bridge saddles) and has its maximum width at the centre of the strings, which corresponds to the 12th fret position on the fretboard.

Pitch and all the rest being the same a heavier string will require greater tension and will be harder to bend. It will have a reduced vibration pattern, will deliver more sustain, more volume and a brighter tone with more attack.

Conversely a lighter string will require less tension, will have a wider vibrating pattern and will deliver a smoother tone with less volume.

Compared at same pitch a 008 string will have a wider vibrating pattern than a 010.

 

[Qweklain]

As voodooradio1 said this is not simply because the string is thicker, but because it has more tension.

 

[iplayloudly]

and a thicker string with more tension should raise the action, assuming nothing else is adjusted. The extra tension on the neck will give it more of a curve, which puts more distance between the strings and neck

 

[bulletproof_funk]

and a thicker string with more tension should raise the action, assuming nothing else is adjusted. The extra tension on the neck will give it more of a curve, which puts more distance between the strings and neck

Well yes, if you go to heavier strings at the same tension (assuming no down-tuning to put a string outside its designed tension range), your neck will bow more due to increased string tension... without adjusting the neck relief to compensate. That's a given but totally not my point.

As voodooradio1 said this is not simply because the string is thicker, but because it has more tension.

I think we're just argumentatively agreeing on this point... Yes, thicker string = more tension at the same tuning.

I'm starting to regret starting "one of these" types of threads where people pick apart the semantics of wording and end up missing the point. I apologize if I wasn't clear to start, not sure if I'm going to dig myself a deeper hole now.

My point was, if you wanted to achieve lower action/string height, heavier strings at the same tuning let you do that because of its increased tension that in turn means less amplitude (assuming you hit the strings with the same force), which means you can lower your bridge and adjust your neck relief accordingly.

I believe it's a common misconception that switching to heavier strings means you need higher action to prevent buzzing and the converse where lighter strings mean less buzz. I also don't believe that even a properly or well set up guitar can achieve lower string height with thinner strings without more buzz than heavier strings. If you try getting the action as low as you can go with 9s and 10s on the same guitar, however you want to adjust the bridge and neck tension, the 10s will get you lower with the same acceptable level of fret buzz.

Is my paraphrasing better this time?

 

[barnesjd]

I know what you mean about 9's. I always feel like I'm pushing them off the board. They mess with my chord work too, because I tend to bend them out of pitch.

Not really the topic of this post but +1. I used 11s or heavier for years, especially if tuning lower. Now days I use 10s and tune to E standard.

Not a big fan of REALLY low action, tho. I'd rather give up a little action for more sustain. It seems there can be a trade-off between those two.

 

[Spaceboy]

I don't know how. It seems to me that no matter the gauge of string, it's being stretch between two fixed points, the bridge and but. I would assume that a string wouldn't be able to get any closer to the board than a straight line from those two points. Maybe there's one physics at work I haven't considered. Doesn't matter to me really, I'm stuck on Daddario exl115w and I won't change my ways!

 

[cardinal]

It's all about how low you can get without buzzing. The amplitude of the vibrational arc of a thicker string is smaller than a thinner string like shown above. So you can keep the guitar buzz free with the neck straighter and the action lower with thicker strings than with thinner strings.

 

[bulletproof_funk]

^^^ Exactly!