Differences between Bogner Helios, XTC 101B, Goldfinger SL

  • Thread starter Thread starter chasintonez
  • Start date Start date
C

chasintonez

Member
I am looking at picking up a first from Bogner. I am closely watching for the release of the new 3534 which is supposed to reference the XTC 101B according to guys at Bogner.

I have never played an XTC 101B or any other XTC. I have never been able to catch a Goldfinger Superlead at the GC here as they are the only place that carries Bogner in Nashville.

I have played a Shiva and Shiva 20th EL34. Was a great amp, but not quite my type of overall gain structure. After playing on the Shivas, Tony at GC had me try a Helios (This was back before the Eclipse release, so an original Helios). That was definitely in my wheel house and I would have went with the Helios, but I got to have quick channel switching to a dedicated clean channel. Rolling the guitar volume down to me gets a good blusier type of clean, but sometimes I have to have a spanky actual clean channel. I cover a lot of various type of material on the fly here in the Nashville area so I need an amp that has some flexibility for channel switching.

That has led me to focus on the Goldfinger Superlead and the new 3534 getting ready to release over the next few months. Both are similar wattage which is about the wattage I would need with a little smaller footprint than a 50 or 100 watt head.

Since the 3534 has not really been released, right now I am using the XTC 101B as a general reference for those that have played on it as well as the GF SL to give a little info on the differences or/and any similarities between these two amps/circuits.

And would one or the other get in the realm of the Helios Hot channel in its various settings?

I play mainly classic rock, 80s rock/hard rock, shred stuff like Rappoport, Nick Johnston, Andy Timmons etc., But also cover a few modern country tasks here and there along with 80's Top 40 stuff, Funk, R&B type stuff at some corporate gigs.

On my own time for my thing I like Jeff Beck, Van Halen type stuff, Vito Bratta, SRV... Most of the main guitar type stuff.

So I need something that can cover ground which from what I have read the XTC's seem to cover a lot. The GF SL looks like it has a good clean channel and gain channel albeit maybe a more vintage style of gain versus the XTC.

If anyone has played on the XTC 101B, GF SL and the Helios since I know what that sounded and felt like (The Helios felt great under the fingers..Really greasy, slippery and easy to play on) let me know your thoughts.

Thanks
 
Well, if you dig the tones of the Helios and want a lower wattage amp I would say the Goldfinger would be what your after. It has the biting high end tone relative to the classic Marshall's. The XTC's are great amps but they have a different vibe going on. More rounded if that makes sense. It's hard to verbalize sound!
 
chasintonez":3vv37cf1 said:
I am looking at picking up a first from Bogner. I am closely watching for the release of the new 3534 which is supposed to reference the XTC 101B according to guys at Bogner.

I have never played an XTC 101B or any other XTC. I have never been able to catch a Goldfinger Superlead at the GC here as they are the only place that carries Bogner in Nashville.

I have played a Shiva and Shiva 20th EL34. Was a great amp, but not quite my type of overall gain structure. After playing on the Shivas, Tony at GC had me try a Helios (This was back before the Eclipse release, so an original Helios). That was definitely in my wheel house and I would have went with the Helios, but I got to have quick channel switching to a dedicated clean channel. Rolling the guitar volume down to me gets a good blusier type of clean, but sometimes I have to have a spanky actual clean channel. I cover a lot of various type of material on the fly here in the Nashville area so I need an amp that has some flexibility for channel switching.

That has led me to focus on the Goldfinger Superlead and the new 3534 getting ready to release over the next few months. Both are similar wattage which is about the wattage I would need with a little smaller footprint than a 50 or 100 watt head.

Since the 3534 has not really been released, right now I am using the XTC 101B as a general reference for those that have played on it as well as the GF SL to give a little info on the differences or/and any similarities between these two amps/circuits.

And would one or the other get in the realm of the Helios Hot channel in its various settings?

I play mainly classic rock, 80s rock/hard rock, shred stuff like Rappoport, Nick Johnston, Andy Timmons etc., But also cover a few modern country tasks here and there along with 80's Top 40 stuff, Funk, R&B type stuff at some corporate gigs.

On my own time for my thing I like Jeff Beck, Van Halen type stuff, Vito Bratta, SRV... Most of the main guitar type stuff.

So I need something that can cover ground which from what I have read the XTC's seem to cover a lot. The GF SL looks like it has a good clean channel and gain channel albeit maybe a more vintage style of gain versus the XTC.

If anyone has played on the XTC 101B, GF SL and the Helios since I know what that sounded and felt like (The Helios felt great under the fingers..Really greasy, slippery and easy to play on) let me know your thoughts.

Thanks
Click to expand...

The Helios is the least Bogner voiced amp of the 3. I'd opt for the Helios Eclipse over the Helios due to the poor channel/switching design.

The XTC is the flagship. I'd wait to see what the 3534 has to offer since the 25 wasnt even the same circuit but rather voiced like a 101b. The 101b had a great master volume and can be had used for cheaper than what the 3534 will be new. I have my doubts that the 3534 will be true to the original XTC design.

The Goldfinger is an enigma for me. Not good, not bad,
 
Had them all...GF90, Shiva 20th, XTC 20th, Helios 100. I now have the Eclipse and if you liked the core Helios tones, the Eclipse is the way to go. Killer modded plexi tones and a dedicated clean channel. I dont use the ultra high gain modes on the Eclipse, as they are over the top for me. The new 3534 is interesting for sure!
 
love the Bogner stuff! I’ve had a 101B in the past. I kind of wish that i kept it. It sounded great. I like the new 3534 amp!
 
The 101b is incredible, but as a heavy fx loop user, the compression and slight tonal change of that circuit began to drive me crazy. You can totally get a Marshall snarl out of it, but the loop makes it nearly impossible. The Helios (original) sounds like a very well-sorted metal-panel Marshall with more gain on tap. But it was a total pain because of the channel switching, and to get a truly Plexiglas sound you needed to switch to the JTM30 mode.
 
Owned a Bogner 20th Shiva kt88. Dug it but I prefer more of a Marshall voiced gain structure.As everyone says get a marshall if you want that sound" I find the Helios a nice option. It's not 100% Marshall voiced but the mids IMHO are spectacular. I wanted to try a Helios and had seen all the opinions and deal breakers because the amp cant go from clean to mean or cant switch between hot and plexi input. I've ran the amp 2 ways. Hot input in 80s mode for awsome rock and metal tones then switching to the clean channel as mentioned is maybe to broken up to call clean. However more amp volume and less guitar volume makes this possible. It cleans up very well so from a channel switching perspective, simple. 2nd option, into plexi input. Clean channel is clean. Not acustic guitar clean but definitely a good clean electric guitar. Switch to channel 2 and theres a basic rhythm channel with good crunch! Then engage a boost and theres your hard rock and rock lead tones and higher gain voiced Marshall style amp. Tons of boost available for this application, I used a buxxom boost as it adds a good amount of gain if wanted tightens the low end if wanted and has an eq to further enhance the boosted dirty plexi channel. If you boost the clean channel with the BB you get ACDC and quite well! For shits and giggles I a/b the hot input with gain set to 3/4 and then the plexi channel with the boost engaged. Pretty dsmn identical in sound and feel. As mentioned the Eclipse maybe another option with more options. This set up is tits and beers for me with the Helios 100, having a 30 watt mode helps even more!! YMMV Happy Hunting
 
Yeah...

I will always have a loop going with delay and reverb if needed. Didn't realize the 101B loop affected main tone.

Supposedly the 3534 loop takes an improvement they made on the xtc25 as that loop was a bit weak on the first few.

Liked the Helios but would definitely like a smaller package if I can get it. Although the GF SL is not much smaller from what I can tell.

Not being able tot try them is frustrating.
 
I like a Marshall tone in general, but there are some things about Marshalls that I don't totally get along with. I tend to like a little softer feel and tone than many Marshall proper circuits. Sometimes Marshalls can seem a little pokey or stiff sounding. It seems when they get good and wound up cranked they start to smooth out and round off some with a better feel from the compression that starts coming in from the power amp pushing hard.

Not sure if the 101B would be to round without the snap on top. I like some presence and bite, but like a little smoother/softer touch in the gain with a bigger girth and wider bandwidth that still will cut in a mix. Sometimes the Marshalls can be a little narrow in bandwidth, which cuts good and fits in mix well, but I still like a little more shoulders to the overall gain structure.

Any Marshall style circuit, whether it be a Marshall or several of the botique variants of the Marshall flavor, I usually have to run an EP Booster either in front of the amp or in the loop to help give it some girth and round it out some for a little smoother tone. Still get the bite, but the edges are a little rounder.

It seems some of the Bogner amps kind of do that right in the amp circuit itself. Many have said the GF SL while similar to a Marshall style gain still was a bit smoother and fuller sounding. The Helios seemed bigger sounding to me when I played that next to a few other nice Marshall style amps at GC. It just had a little bigger footprint. And it was so nice to play on. Not sure if all Bogners feel that easy to play on as that has been my only Bogner experience except for a few of the Shivas. Shiva was nice, but the gain character was not nearly as nice to me as the Helios gain.
 
chasintonez":ksmn5l07 said:
I like a Marshall tone in general, but there are some things about Marshalls that I don't totally get along with. I tend to like a little softer feel and tone than many Marshall proper circuits. Sometimes Marshalls can seem a little pokey or stiff sounding. It seems when they get good and wound up cranked they start to smooth out and round off some with a better feel from the compression that starts coming in from the power amp pushing hard.

Not sure if the 101B would be to round without the snap on top. I like some presence and bite, but like a little smoother/softer touch in the gain with a bigger girth and wider bandwidth that still will cut in a mix. Sometimes the Marshalls can be a little narrow in bandwidth, which cuts good and fits in mix well, but I still like a little more shoulders to the overall gain structure.

Any Marshall style circuit, whether it be a Marshall or several of the botique variants of the Marshall flavor, I usually have to run an EP Booster either in front of the amp or in the loop to help give it some girth and round it out some for a little smoother tone. Still get the bite, but the edges are a little rounder.

It seems some of the Bogner amps kind of do that right in the amp circuit itself. Many have said the GF SL while similar to a Marshall style gain still was a bit smoother and fuller sounding. The Helios seemed bigger sounding to me when I played that next to a few other nice Marshall style amps at GC. It just had a little bigger footprint. And it was so nice to play on. Not sure if all Bogners feel that easy to play on as that has been my only Bogner experience except for a few of the Shivas. Shiva was nice, but the gain character was not nearly as nice to me as the Helios gain.
Click to expand...
Yes exactly! The Shiva has a very different type distortion , it's not as aggressive is maybe a way to explain it. It's a great amp without question! I had researched it quite a bit before purchase and found a thread where things were mentioned that the bogner distortion/shiva possibly was very different and some what fizzy. Hard to explain. I couldn't hear it in any clips what so ever but as soon as I played it I knew exactly what was being described. Fizzy may be the wrong word. I as mention had the 20th with kt88s so I am sure they are rounder than an el34 in this amp. Great amp. The Helios is imho perfect type distortion if you like a little less high end. The mids are worth the price of admission! And the highs are smooth and can be piercing without any skreech. Probably just my hacked style but I dig it!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top