Distortion pedal + Clean amp = Modern Metal Tones???

[fearhk213]

Something I've always been curious about since there are lots of options for distortion pedals these days and some really nice clean amps. Is there really a viable option for someone who plays something a clean based amp like the Fuchs Clean Machine or something like that to run a distortion pedal into the front and get modern metal high gain tones (i.e. Uberschall, HG Jose, etc)? I'm not talking "that's good enough" type tones, but viable tones that don't sound like pedals and have amp-like dynamics and that could hang with the mentioned amps. They have some mid-gain pedals like the Kar-Krash that are amazingly amplike and dynamic, but is the a distortion box out there like that?

I'm not planning on parting with the Uber anytime soon, just curious.

 

[SFW]

For about four months, I used the Hughes & Kettner Warp Factor pedal into the front of the clean channel of my Carvin Legacy with great results.

 

[lllazarrr]

For about four months, I used the Hughes & Kettner Warp Factor pedal into the front of the clean channel of my Carvin Legacy with great results.

I'd really like to hear that, do you have some clip of that setup by any chance ?

 

[Mudder]

I do it frequently with my AC30 and various pedals: MI Crunch Box, Radial Plexitube, Righteous Tones Fang...

 

[Inearthed]

For about four months, I used the Hughes & Kettner Warp Factor pedal into the front of the clean channel of my Carvin Legacy with great results.

I'd really like to hear that, do you have some clip of that setup by any chance ?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24744

Also hit up YouTube for clips of the Warp Factor...

Nice sounding pedal..

Musiciansfriend was dumping them for $40 Mid / Late last year.. They're harder to come by now. Been trying to find one.

 

[blackba]

In my experience its hard to get high gain sounds with a clean amp and a pedal. I think part of the reason is that nice clean amps often are just not voiced to go to the brutalz. I run my Fenders through Webers that are Jensen clones, not really a speaker that is meant for brutal tones. I think Mid gain and low gain has been done very well with pedals, high gain not so much.

I have an MI audio crunch box right now and am GASing for a Barber Dirty Bomb. One of the best distortion pedals out there in reputation is the Zoom Tri-metal. I wish they still made it so it would be easier to find one to try out.

 

[VH4_BigRig]

In my experience its hard to get high gain sounds with a clean amp and a pedal. I think part of the reason is that nice clean amps often are just not voiced to go to the brutalz. I run my Fenders through Webers that are Jensen clones, not really a speaker that is meant for brutal tones. I think Mid gain and low gain has been done very well with pedals, high gain not so much.

I have an MI audio crunch box right now and am GASing for a Barber Dirty Bomb. One of the best distortion pedals out there in reputation is the Zoom Tri-metal. I wish they still made it so it would be easier to find one to try out.

Don't bother with the Tri Metal dude, I had one for a bit and ended up giving it to one of my friends. Too close to metalzone-ish tone for my tastes. It is better than the metalzone (chunkier low end, less fizz), but it has absolutely no warmth or sustain. Just my two cents!

This is part of the reason I was glad you asked earlier about the tube based pedals. If you're going to get good hi gain tone through a clean amp, tubes definitely make a difference to me so far. Think I'll go bump that other thread. Cheers!

 

[blackba]

Don't bother with the Tri Metal dude, I had one for a bit and ended up giving it to one of my friends. Too close to metalzone-ish tone for my tastes. It is better than the metalzone (chunkier low end, less fizz), but it has absolutely no warmth or sustain. Just my two cents!

This is part of the reason I was glad you asked earlier about the tube based pedals. If you're going to get good hi gain tone through a clean amp, tubes definitely make a difference to me so far. Think I'll go bump that other thread. Cheers!

Thanks for the heads up on the tri-metal. I have seen mostly good reviews on it. When I started looking again for a distortion pedal I was surprised that the SS distortion pedals were similarly priced to the Tube distortion pedals. I mean the BJE Dyna Red which gets recommended all the time and is tough to find is $350USD. The Blackstar HT-DistX looks pretty cool, but it gets alot of mixed reviews.

Here is the other thread I started.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42290

 

[rsm]

FWIW, I used my Axe-Fx Ultra with a Bose L1 Model II system which, while not technically an amp (more of a PA) is a very clean amp sound when run by itself. I was not able to AB with the real modern amps, but some of the presets that used the modern amp / cab sims after I removed (bypassed) some of the effects, and tweaked it, they sounded very modern to me, even though modern metal tone is not something I'm after..,

I never played a Fuchs, but I think the Axe-Fx with a clean amp set-up would be great, especially with recent Drive block parameters that have been expanded, to get a wide range of distortion tones. You can create your own custom overdrive, distortion and/or fuzz with the drive block now - like having your own distortion pedal designer without the need for germanium transistors or a soldering iron! The Axe-Fx wiki has a list of settings people made to simulate classic pedal effects.

Sellers remorse.... Big time. Yup. Missing that Ultra. Yup, uhuh.

I'll just have to listen to Brad's posts of the new rig Dave is building for him!

 

[guitarslinger]

I know what you're saying. It's almost like dist pedals + killer clean amp = KILLER grunge/post-rock sounds, but it's never tight or modern.

My tip =

some kind of Isolated A/B switcher + external rack preamp + simple mixer into FX return of amp.

With the A/B you can switch back to the amps preamp and have the FX send going into the mixer.

I know it's a complicated (possibly expensive) solution, but it's the best solution.


Nice brutal preamps I've owned:

Rocktron Piranha
VHT GP-3
Egnater M4
Many more that get brutal with an external EQ

Nice brutal preamps I haven't owned:

MODDED ADA MP-1
Engl 570
Engl 580

 

[O'Rourke]

No. At least not anymore than you can get great Fender clean tones from the clean channel of a 5150 or similar amp. It will always be a compromise. If you want modern metal tones why would you buy an expensive amp geared toward clean tones and then put some solid state stomp box in front of it?

That's like using the flat side of a wrench to drive a nail. You'd be better off just buying a hammer IMO.

 

[lllazarrr]

For about four months, I used the Hughes & Kettner Warp Factor pedal into the front of the clean channel of my Carvin Legacy with great results.

I'd really like to hear that, do you have some clip of that setup by any chance ?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24744

Also hit up YouTube for clips of the Warp Factor...

Nice sounding pedal..

Musiciansfriend was dumping them for $40 Mid / Late last year.. They're harder to come by now. Been trying to find one.

Damn, I can't find that clip...
Youtube has some new clips and they are cool

The reason I'm asking is because some time ago it was H&K Warp factor vs TubeScreamer and TS won because I couldn't find any decent clip of H&K when I was trying to decide

Thanks anyway

 

[blackba]

No. At least not anymore than you can get great Fender clean tones from the clean channel of a 5150 or similar amp. It will always be a compromise. If you want modern metal tones why would you buy an expensive amp geared toward clean tones and then put some solid state stomp box in front of it?

That's like using the flat side of a wrench to drive a nail. You'd be better off just buying a hammer IMO.

+1 Like anything you have to target a sound or set of sounds you are looking for. However, I am looking for a distortion pedal for my clean amp so I can go into hard rock/metal territory on for a few songs, if you are mainly playing metal I can see how this approach would not be the best one (hence why I have a mesa mark IV for those heavy tones). Strangely enough the guy I bought my '69 fender bandmaster reverb from used it for metal.

 

[Anonymous]

The Line 6 Uber metal does a great job of this

 

[fearhk213]

Thanks for the input ya'll . I have an Axe-Fx and never thought you could get those types of tones out of a computer box so that's why I was wondering what there was out there in regards to pedals also.

No. At least not anymore than you can get great Fender clean tones from the clean channel of a 5150 or similar amp. It will always be a compromise. If you want modern metal tones why would you buy an expensive amp geared toward clean tones and then put some solid state stomp box in front of it?

That's like using the flat side of a wrench to drive a nail. You'd be better off just buying a hammer IMO.

Well yeah, if I played in Morbid Angel I wouldn't be shopping for a Twin and Metalzone so I agree with your point about picking the tool best suited for the job. I'm talking about people like the above poster who need metal tones for a few songs. With the progress pedals have made certainly there are options out there that do a convincing job without having to haul around a second head. Like I was saying there are mid-gain pedals (Kar-Krash) and some clean to mid-gain pedal/preamps (Ethos & Triad) that seem to be doing doing the job. Also, with the Axe-Fx and other rackmounts there are good preamp choices for the high gain stuff. So why is it so unfeesable to think that some of these builders have been able to squeeze those tones out in a pedal format? Especially when you consider how the majority of modern high gainers have their gain and sag coming from the preamp and their power section is dialed in for huge amounts of headroom with minimal breakup and sag, much like the power section on many clean amps.

As far as amps go there are plenty of 2 channel amps out there that have stellar clean channels and dirty channels. The 5150 may not be one of them, but a Cameron modded Uberschall (shiva cleans that are ridiculous), the OD100SE+, and a couple of amps from the Diamond line are more than "good enough." One or the other may not be to one's particular flavor, but no real comprises in either the clean or metal tone department.

 

[GuitarGuyLP]

One of my first projects I have planned (after I get my tube sockets) is a tube distortion pedal for going in front of a clean amp. I agree that you will need some speakers suited to hard rock/metal, but I can see no reason why it can't be done. My plan is to start with a good preamp channel design, and tweak it running it into a clean amp. The clean channel eq will act as an overall tone control. My plan is to have a bass switch (tight or big), and high switch (bright, or mellow), and a mid scoop control.

I will post results as soon as I can start wiring it up. I am finishing my experimenter power supply today. It is a small enclosure with a 400 VDC, and 6.3VDC power supply. Both have switches, and fuses. From there I will be wiring up the circuit on my breadboard.

 

[Anonymous]

I am running a 1977 Fender Twin (master volume) into a 4x12 with g12-75's. I really, really need a good od/distortion, but NOT a metaled out fuzzy bee sounding OD. Just a good marshally crunch!!

 

[SFW]

The Warp Factor is a really great unit. It is one of the few pedals that I've had that actually feels like you're playing a gained out amp. I never had the gain over 1:00. I will say that it likes darker amps, but I was able to get some nice tones from my DSL a few times with it.