Do better Pots and caps improve tone?

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maxguitars

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Had this discussion today with a buddy, He swears you can improve your tone upgrading pots and drop caps in say a Carvin. Or use a high end Les paul replacement kit from RS guitar works... I can concede that the tone pots and will better and there is less noise etc but what's your take?
 
Um, absolutely. Get some 500k TVT and Russian PIO in a Les Paul, change to 50s wiring, and it'll be like night and day better.
 
I know that I just like one volume pot and a kill switch.

But I will always say that the best components for the job at hand.
 
rottingcorpse":151y2fxm said:
I know that I just like one volume pot and a kill switch.

But I will always say that the best components for the job at hand.


Yeah, but most of your guitars are all custom single pickup monsters! What else do you need? Better pots make a big difference, high dollar tone caps aren't any better than average ones in my experience.
 
In some ways yes, others no.

RS Guitar Works packages some relatively common parts (which are good--no complaints here!) and then upcharges. I've seen "kits" of parts anyone can buy for maybe $10-$12 selling for $50. They rely on the fact you don't know where to source the parts yourself...or want to buy a roll of wire if you only need a few pieces. Again, the parts are good. Magic? Probably not. :)

About "better" pots/caps/wire:

Pots: I'm more concerned with 1) does it fit the space required, 2) is it reliable, 3) does it "feel nice" when turning it, 4) what value it really is when you read it with a meter. Sometimes people will use a 350K pot and go nuts about how magic it is, when all they wanted was some lower peaks from their humbuckers (compared to using 500K pots)...whether they realize their pot reads 350K or not. If the sweep isn't perfect, it's easy to compensate for in most cases by wiring a resistor between pins 1 and 2 (not the 3rd "ground" lug), whatever value is appropriate. Or a bright cap, with or without a resistor in series. Anyway #1 is basically the most important because you can't compensate for that. #2 is good in the long run (not that swapping a pot is horrible, but it's annoying). #3 is a picky thing and I usually don't care much unless it's either flopping around not staying on full, or feels really stiff. As for the "sound" of various pots: other than its value and its sweep, I don't hear a difference. If there's a pot which keeps series resistance in the circuit when it's "full up", that would annoy me. Maybe I haven't had the displeasure of using some "bad" pots, to discover something like that (which I know is possible).

Caps: Changing them can make a difference. Changing the value is more important than changing the type/brand. Once you know what value works best for you, the rest is secondary. As for what's "best", it's subjective and a relatively small change most of the time, so I can't recommend one type over another (as long as you're using some kind of poly film or metal film type, anyway; I guess some guitars come with crappy caps, but I find lots of manufacturers supplying their guitars with plastic film caps these days).

Wire: I hear no difference in different "kinds" of wire. :) That is, if they're all copper/tinned wire of the same gauge. Some want a "vintage look" with the push-back jacket wire, I prefer to strip the wire and not have frayed bits of crap in my way. :) Solid core stays in a particular shape (when bent) much better than stranded, so that's something to consider, depending on what you're working on and/or how you prefer to work.

That's my 2c.
 
JP got it. no difference in wire - copper is copper. Pots, descent pots will "feel" better an maybe last longer. Capacitors - tone does not pass through caps. A cap will only bleed certain frequencies to ground. Their composition does not matter. Only their values.
 
Good info here folks, thanks for chiming in. I have to say, in Carvin guitars new pots etc make a big differnce
 
Might want to try lower values for your tone pot. You can roll off highs gradually and keep the lows and mids intact. This makes it more usable for me...
 
Any change in tone would come from different values of the pots and caps or differences in how it's wired. For example, cheap "500k" pots might actually not be very close to 500k. But someone like RS Guitarworks will make sure the value is right. Pots also have different tapers, which makes them more or less useable depending on what you want. As for wiring, there is a difference between "modern" and "50s" wiring and how they load the pickups once you start rolling off the controls.

But assuming you keep the wiring the same and swap pots with the same values and tapers, you won't hear any difference.

Oh, and from what I understand, the tone cap 1) doesn't have any influence when the tone knob is all the way up and 2) only starts to have an influence once the tone knob is rolled back about 50% (what you hear before that point is from sweeping the resistance of the tone pot down).
 
JamesPeters":e49vwtl5 said:
In some ways yes, others no.

RS Guitar Works packages some relatively common parts (which are good--no complaints here!) and then upcharges. I've seen "kits" of parts anyone can buy for maybe $10-$12 selling for $50. They rely on the fact you don't know where to source the parts yourself...or want to buy a roll of wire if you only need a few pieces. Again, the parts are good. Magic? Probably not. :)

About "better" pots/caps/wire:

Pots: I'm more concerned with 1) does it fit the space required, 2) is it reliable, 3) does it "feel nice" when turning it, 4) what value it really is when you read it with a meter. Sometimes people will use a 350K pot and go nuts about how magic it is, when all they wanted was some lower peaks from their humbuckers (compared to using 500K pots)...whether they realize their pot reads 350K or not. If the sweep isn't perfect, it's easy to compensate for in most cases by wiring a resistor between pins 1 and 2 (not the 3rd "ground" lug), whatever value is appropriate. Or a bright cap, with or without a resistor in series. Anyway #1 is basically the most important because you can't compensate for that. #2 is good in the long run (not that swapping a pot is horrible, but it's annoying). #3 is a picky thing and I usually don't care much unless it's either flopping around not staying on full, or feels really stiff. As for the "sound" of various pots: other than its value and its sweep, I don't hear a difference. If there's a pot which keeps series resistance in the circuit when it's "full up", that would annoy me. Maybe I haven't had the displeasure of using some "bad" pots, to discover something like that (which I know is possible).

Caps: Changing them can make a difference. Changing the value is more important than changing the type/brand. Once you know what value works best for you, the rest is secondary. As for what's "best", it's subjective and a relatively small change most of the time, so I can't recommend one type over another (as long as you're using some kind of poly film or metal film type, anyway; I guess some guitars come with crappy caps, but I find lots of manufacturers supplying their guitars with plastic film caps these days).

Wire: I hear no difference in different "kinds" of wire. :) That is, if they're all copper/tinned wire of the same gauge. Some want a "vintage look" with the push-back jacket wire, I prefer to strip the wire and not have frayed bits of crap in my way. :) Solid core stays in a particular shape (when bent) much better than stranded, so that's something to consider, depending on what you're working on and/or how you prefer to work.

That's my 2c.


My findings as well... I'm in the process of taking out an RS guitarworks harness that the previous owner installed because the 550k+ volume pots are way to bright and harsh for my pickups/amp and cable capacitance.
 
thunda":2c54ad97 said:
JP got it. no difference in wire - copper is copper. Pots, descent pots will "feel" better an maybe last longer. Capacitors - tone does not pass through caps. A cap will only bleed certain frequencies to ground. Their composition does not matter. Only their values.

To clarify:

Wire could matter...but unless you're talking about going with hair-thin wire compared to something more reasonable (22 gauge), or some wire made of crummy metal, I haven't noticed a difference.

Caps do pass frequencies (in the signal path) in some circuits but not in others. Even in the latter case, the "bleeding to ground" thing, it makes a difference since the remaining frequencies "in the signal path" are a matter of what was removed/how it was removed. I just find that most "good" caps made of plastic or metal film work well with hardly any noticeable difference among them, and choosing the right values is more important. 20 years ago it was more common to find "crummy" caps in a lot of guitars, and I guess better caps have become more affordable since then, so these companies don't go quite so cheap anymore. :)

cardinal":2c54ad97 said:
Any change in tone would come from different values of the pots and caps or differences in how it's wired. For example, cheap "500k" pots might actually not be very close to 500k. But someone like RS Guitarworks will make sure the value is right. Pots also have different tapers, which makes them more or less useable depending on what you want. As for wiring, there is a difference between "modern" and "50s" wiring and how they load the pickups once you start rolling off the controls.

But assuming you keep the wiring the same and swap pots with the same values and tapers, you won't hear any difference.

Oh, and from what I understand, the tone cap 1) doesn't have any influence when the tone knob is all the way up and 2) only starts to have an influence once the tone knob is rolled back about 50% (what you hear before that point is from sweeping the resistance of the tone pot down).

Some may argue that the composition of the element of the pot could affect the sound, but usually that's a matter of noise and would only occur in a circuit with appreciable current (not so much a guitar's electronic system).

As for 50s wiring, for a while I liked it because it helped maintain consistency with the rolloff in the middle position...but I prefer the sound of the more common wiring due to the loading effect with both pickups on at the same time, in most guitars anyway. So my love affair with 50s wiring was short. :)

The tone pot/cap has an effect all the time even when it's fully "up". It's enough to notice compared to removing the tone pot/cap...if you're picky. I used to be that picky. It depends on the amp. If it's not bitey enough, I'd want the tone pot removed from the guitar. It could help give it that slightly extra edge which makes it sound "like my strings stay fresh longer" lol.
 
Yes, but not much. Upgrades like that change the tone slightly... and I wouldn't say better either, it just makes it different. The difference between 300 and 500k pots is a subtle change, and you will notice the 500 is a bit brighter. Caps in guitars change the tone even less, it's hardly noticeable... but of course some here will disagree.
 

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