Drum mixing question: Drummer hitting the snare irregularly

[manyaxes]

Well, I guess the subject is pretty OT, but it's music-related anyway and some of you guys have a lot of talent mixing... A local band has asked me to record a quick little demo for them because even though I am by no means a pro at this, I am the only person they know that somehow has some recording and mixing skills and recording gear (and not charge a lot ).

Problem is, the drummer hits the snare differently every time, had never seen such an irregular drummer, even though his timing is stunning. I try to compensate the volume differences compressing a lot, but even going way over the top with the ratio some hits are still very silent, specially during hard passages and hitting a lot of stuff at once or hitting sextuplets on the bass drum.

But volume differences are not the worst part, tone differences are. Sometimes (this is after gating, eq and comp) snare hits sound crisp and snappy, as they should be, but then the "pitch" starts to lower as if someone had engaged a phaser or something, and the tone becomes boxy, until it gets back to normal a few hits later. I think this is because the drummer is hitting different parts of the mesh giving different tones, but I am not a drummer nor an expert at mixing.

Any tips? I have already tried to rerecord telling the drummer to pay attention to it, but it's still very noticeable.

 

[Phrygian]

I think an easy solution would be to use sampled hits, with drumagog or a similar program. You can even load up his snare sounds, just get him to give you a few cleans hits to choose from.

If using pro tools, one option would be their sound replacer program, but it's not cheap.

You can always do it the low tech tedious way, tab to transient and paste a good hit. Gets harder with rolls.

Good to hear his timing's on. That's half the battle. Maybe observe his technique and see if there's anything you can do to improve it. Sometimes it's as weird as stool positioning, more so height. Some guys tend to crack the rim at the same time, which can sound awesome, but if they're doing it sporatically it can be annoying, and inconsistent with the mood of the song.

Those are my initial thoughts anyway. Hope it helps a bit!

 

[moltenmetalburn]

+1 get some hits of his own and then sample the snare.

 

[Phrygian]

I've tried all sorts of compression techniques in the past to help situations like this, but even if you can get the volume fairly consistent you can still tell a good solid hit from a bad one. Samples give you that edge, a good smack on the snare every time you need it.

My drummer's a friggen joy, great timing and very consistent. He better be or he (my brother) is fired! lol jk ...Even still, I use samples for him. Not to fix, but to bring the sound to the next level, as well as clean stuff up if I have some bleed in. I blend his original track with some Steven Slate Samples....that's the goods right there!

 

[amiller]

Drumagog is a great program for substituting drum hits, however, the cost of Drumagog AND a decent drum library that works with Drumagog, like Steve Slater durms, can cost a bit. I use both and love em.

Having said that, you need to be sure the drummer actually wants the strikes replaced. It may be that the lite snare hits and differences in tone are on purpose for dynamics and expression. If the snare drum hits are all the same volume and the tones are all the same it will sound a little artificial...'just my 2c.

 

[manyaxes]

Thanks for the answers guys. I had thought about replacing, in fact the bass drum is already completely replaced and sounding very nice. But how do you handle the drum-rolls and "special" hits? I mean, how do you prevent them from sounding artificial and sort of like a machinegun?

 

[Phrygian]

Thanks for the answers guys. I had thought about replacing, in fact the bass drum is already completely replaced and sounding very nice. But how do you handle the drum-rolls and "special" hits? I mean, how do you prevent them from sounding artificial and sort of like a machinegun?

You can select your blend percentage, which helps. There are times you've got to get creative. But hey, if you sample using his own hits you can just knock off the trigger program when it comes to the rolls. That should work just fine. It's when you introduce completely different sounds/tones that it becomes extremely tricky with rolls.

 

[guitarnate2000]

Thanks for the answers guys. I had thought about replacing, in fact the bass drum is already completely replaced and sounding very nice. But how do you handle the drum-rolls and "special" hits? I mean, how do you prevent them from sounding artificial and sort of like a machinegun?

You can select your blend percentage, which helps. There are times you've got to get creative. But hey, if you sample using his own hits you can just knock off the trigger program when it comes to the rolls. That should work just fine. It's when you introduce completely different sounds/tones that it becomes extremely tricky with rolls.

Yep I have had similar issues and remedied it with Drumagog.... thats the way to go bro

 

[eternal_idol]

I've run into this.

My easy fix solution, analog gate in the insert.
then sub mix it to a compressor and tweak.

I don't have drumagog, had to go in an edit the odd snare hit.

interesting snare muting kinda worked also.

i went with what i got. and it worked for a demo.

Brae

 

[killertone]

I am a Drumagog user as well. Works extremely well and is very responsive to dynamics if you want it to be. I would also recommend sampling the original drum you are replacing. Also, a good stereo pair of overheads or room mics to help fill out the sample is recommended, with out it the samples sound like....samples.

 

[Bob Savage]

Garbage in, garbage out. It's good that he has great timing, but without consistency in attack, unless varied dynamics are called for by the musical style there's little you can do, practically.

 

[ruso]

Apple Logic Pro 9 and Flex Time feature.

/thread