Engl Blackmore Vs. Artist Edition

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Intimidator333

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Anyone have experience with both of these? I know the differences in specs but can anybody elaborate on the sonic differences between the 2 in a high gain metal context?
 
I owned the Blackmore but only played the Artist Edition and that was a long time ago.

Many praise the Blackmore for high gain metal, but I didn't find it gave me what I was after in terms of the heavier stuff (Thrash and Death Metal). If your thinking Blackmore for metal I'd go the xtra mile and grab a Savage 120, the post 2011 if possible. If your patient you can find a used Savage 120 for a good price. WELL below the retail cost. Stupid tight amp with no boost. Crunchy, organic gain structure with lots of upper mid punch. TONS of tone shaping options!

I remember liking the Artist Edition but can't remember specifics enough to be able to compare to the Blackmore.
 
I have a Blackmore and a bandmate of mine has an Artist Edition. We play in an extreme metal project (probably closest to Behemoth / Emperor / Dissection / Old Man's Child in sound) tuned to E Standard, mostly speedy 16th note picking type stuff some technical riffing, some pretty heavy parts as well, drums do a lot of blasting / double bass. Most of the time is spent on the lead channel, hi gain mode with a clean part every so often. All of these are just my observations -- my Blackmore is significantly older than his Artist Edition (I think his amp is maybe 2 years old at most?). Both have had recent retubes though.

I feel they're pretty much extremely similar. Primary two differences is that I feel like the gain in the Artist Edition is more tweaked towards modern metal tones on the lead channel, hi gain setting. There is more gain on tap in the Artist Edition but for both you just hit a point where you don't need to go. I don't think we've ever ran the gain past 6 or 7 on either amp. The Artist Edition has a more crunchy yet still warm sound compared to the Blackmore, Blackmore has a more treble emphasis in the tone - my treble knob is usually dialed back a bit more than his, same with the Lead Presence. With minimal tweaking you can pretty much get either amp to sound like each other. Cleans are a toss up, both are great for metal and can more or less do the same thing. The only real difference outside of that is cutting through the mix; I feel the Blackmore just cuts a bit better, I routinely have to run my volume level a little lower.

If I was playing in a metal project where you needed a lot of gain on tap and I was picking between the two (and I didn't own either amp), I'd probably buy the Artist Edition. My bandmate actually used to own a Blackmore but sold it an switched to the Artist Edition because preferred the tones of the Artist Edition.
 
MetalHeadMike":31ok3w9l said:
I owned the Blackmore but only played the Artist Edition and that was a long time ago.

Many praise the Blackmore for high gain metal, but I didn't find it gave me what I was after in terms of the heavier stuff (Thrash and Death Metal). If your thinking Blackmore for metal I'd go the xtra mile and grab a Savage 120, the post 2011 if possible. If your patient you can find a used Savage 120 for a good price. WELL below the retail cost. Stupid tight amp with no boost. Crunchy, organic gain structure with lots of upper mid punch. TONS of tone shaping options!

I remember liking the Artist Edition but can't remember specifics enough to be able to compare to the Blackmore.
Click to expand...

This +1

Get the Savage.
 
Played thrash metal on a blackmore. Sounded pretty good. Is a lean amp and extremely bright. Can get icepicky.
 
MetalHeadMike":2oza9ioq said:
I owned the Blackmore but only played the Artist Edition and that was a long time ago.

Many praise the Blackmore for high gain metal, but I didn't find it gave me what I was after in terms of the heavier stuff (Thrash and Death Metal). If your thinking Blackmore for metal I'd go the xtra mile and grab a Savage 120, the post 2011 if possible. If your patient you can find a used Savage 120 for a good price. WELL below the retail cost. Stupid tight amp with no boost. Crunchy, organic gain structure with lots of upper mid punch. TONS of tone shaping options!

I remember liking the Artist Edition but can't remember specifics enough to be able to compare to the Blackmore.
Click to expand...

Why the post 2011 Savage? Did Engl make some revision to the original Savage?
 
^^^
Updated/larger output transformer. Its HUGE.
 
MetalHeadMike":2uijyzux said:
I owned the Blackmore but only played the Artist Edition and that was a long time ago.

Many praise the Blackmore for high gain metal, but I didn't find it gave me what I was after in terms of the heavier stuff (Thrash and Death Metal). If your thinking Blackmore for metal I'd go the xtra mile and grab a Savage 120, the post 2011 if possible. If your patient you can find a used Savage 120 for a good price. WELL below the retail cost. Stupid tight amp with no boost. Crunchy, organic gain structure with lots of upper mid punch. TONS of tone shaping options!

I remember liking the Artist Edition but can't remember specifics enough to be able to compare to the Blackmore.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input guys. As for the Savage, I owned one for 9 years. Sold it this time last year. It was the most perfect dream tone ever. It was just so weak. It got ate alive no matter how I set it and yes I know what I'm doing. I'm asking about the Blackmore and Artist Edition because I've read that they are similar to the Savage but are less compressed and sound fuller and louder. As for the transformer upgrade in the Savage, has anybody compared the new model with the old model? If I could have a Savage again but that was louder, fuller, had more chunk to it, that would probably be the way to go. While all us Engl fans are here, any of you guys have any Diezel experience? VH4 is probably out of my price range but a used Herbert or DMoll is doable. Any you Engl guys like those amps?
 
^^^
The Herbert is definitely and awesome amp. Ran it side by side my two Engls for a short while and really liked it. I definitely had to clean boost it though to get it tight enough for my tastes. Lots of great tones to be had in the Herbert. Darker amp though. At least the one I had was. Has a bit more sag in the response compared to the Engl stuff which could be your thing or not. I personally liked the sag it had; nice contrast to the Engls. I bought mine used and unfortunately it had issues and I had to return it.

Wizard of Oz will be able to give you a descriptive comparison between the pre-transformer and post-transformer upgrade Savage I do believe.
 
MetalHeadMike":y2719ujv said:
^^^
The Herbert is definitely and awesome amp. Ran it side by side my two Engls for a short while and really liked it. I definitely had to clean boost it though to get it tight enough for my tastes. Lots of great tones to be had in the Herbert. Darker amp though. At least the one I had was. Has a bit more sag in the response compared to the Engl stuff which could be your thing or not. I personally liked the sag it had; nice contrast to the Engls. I bought mine used and unfortunately it had issues and I had to return it.

Wizard of Oz will be able to give you a descriptive comparison between the pre-transformer and post-transformer upgrade Savage I do believe.
Click to expand...

I can do better than that... here's some clips (not mine):

1. Post-2011 Savage 120: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sugfgb2k1dpwwcf ... 7.ogg?dl=0

2. Pre-2011 Savage 120: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/3kwybpoclo9d8rq ... 7.ogg?dl=0

Right click to "Save target as" to download.

The post-2011 has a bigger output transformer and does sound thicker, a bit warmer, and chunkier. Not a huge night and day difference, but noticeable especially to someone familiar to the Savage tone. You'll notice an improvement although not earth shattering. Not any less compressed though. Same level of compression. The thing with the Savage 120 is like it's more like a 50W amp. 2 6550s in the power section output like 60-70W depending on the plate voltage. So there is going to be less headroom, more compression, and power tube distortion (coloration) to your sound. I like 6550s so that works for me. Some don't dig 6550s and for that reason they won't like the Savage. Also as you mentioned it's not a super loud amp like a Soldano SLO, Wizard, Mesa Triple Rec. etc. It wasn't designed to be one. The tone is from a super hot preamp section run thru a pretty clean power section with 6550s biased slightly cold from the factory to preserve the preamp tone signal as much as possible.

What you are wanting and describing I hate to say is the Engl Special Edition. It's way louder, heavier and much thicker. It's also much more evil sounding. That's the best descriptor for the tone. It still has tons of upper-mid and bite and cuts like a champ. This is the monster.

I've owned the VH4 and have been close to picking up another one. But if you don't like compression or dark-low mid voiced amps, the VH4 will not be your thing. It's super compressed (hence all the talk of de-compression mods) and very dark. Also the two main "money channels" 3 & 4 are very similarly voiced, with 4 having a touch bit more gain and a lot more compression as compared to channel 3. The DMoll is a little brighter, but not a Marshall-voice by any means.

The Blackmore and Artist won't fit your needs if you didn't dig the Savage 120. The Savage is far superior to both of those amps, with the Blackmore being a stripped down Savage 120 (similar to the E530 preamp) with less gain in a head-box. It's more open, less compressed but not any warmer or louder.

If you want loud, chunky, warm power chords for rhythms check out a new multi-watt Mesa Dual/Triple Recto or a Bogner Uberschall Blue. Both of these will fill the bill in spades.

HTH.
 
Thanks for the replies and tracks guys. I got the answers I was looking for. Wish I could find a post 2011 Savage to try.
 
"I can do better than that... here's some clips (not mine):

1. Post-2011 Savage 120: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sugfgb2k1dpwwcf ... 7.ogg?dl=0

2. Pre-2011 Savage 120: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/3kwybpoclo9d8rq ... 7.ogg?dl=0"

^^^
I'm sure a lot of it is just because its a clip and because of settings and signal chain, but that sounds like a bit more compression then I get with my Savage. One of the reasons I held off for so long on the Savage was because most of the recordings on albums I was hearing of it sounded really compressed/processed. I feel like the one I'm playing has a REALLY raw, open tone going on. To my ears this one sounds like a modern ultra pissed off version of the 78/79 JMP 2203 50 watt MV I used to have.
 
I have a Herbert and VH4s. I used to have a blackmore, changed it for 2014 savage. Savage has much more depth and gain and much better cleans than blackmore. Blackmore lacks a bit of low end in my opinion. Diezels are completely different. Huge low thump, a bit drier maybe if that's the right word. They have insane amounts of gain but completely different tonal character. I played savage along with evh5150. Somehow evh cut better but maybe it was the settings coz my friend had the mids scooped.
 
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