Ever wanted to tell the other guitarist in the band...

  • Thread starter Thread starter snakeman1986
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Used to have 2 guitar players in my main band for many years. Back then in the early 90's I was using my block letter 5150 with an Intellifex and a BOSS EQ in the loop for a solo boost. Ran the amp with everything about noon give or take. Simple straight forward setup. No problems cutting through a mix. The first guy I played with was a buddy from high school I brought in. We got along. Smart, gear knowledgable guy with good ears and good tone. When he moved away was when my headaches started. The next couple of guys all had nice gear but sounded like ass. One guy had a Mesa Mark V ran it clean with I think a BOSS Metal Zone pedal. :doh: Not a fan of those things. After he heard my rig he went out and bought a used 5150 and Intellifex but would scoop the mids. :lol: :LOL: Next guy had all rack gear. The old Marshall preamp and power amp setup. Can't remember what those things were called. Anyway, more sounding like ass. Nothing but cranked bass, scooped mids and piercing treble. :doh: Shortly after he found a used 5150 but would scoop the mids. :lol: :LOL: Besides tone issues, it would always seem like guitar wars with these other guys too. They seemed the need to try to play 'Shredder' in between songs at practice and gigs. Really? When the last one left I said screw this lets get a bad ass keyboardist and I'm going to be the only guitar player. Best call I ever made. Been this way now for about 5-6 years. I love my keyboardist like a brother. I'm in 2 bands with him and there is no need for another guitar player. But it is cool when you have 2 guitar players that gel well tone wise playing wise and attitude wise. It's a great sound and you can do some really cool stuff. Hard to come by though.
 
Ugh...metal zone into a freaking mark v. That guy should be shot.
 
A band is like a business. If it's not working, you're not going to be happy. If you're not happy, it's going to cast a shadow on why you wanted to do it in the first place. Give the guy a chance to fix it. If he doesn't, move on without him.
 
Mr. Willy":ju4puubb said:
A band is like a relationship. If it's not working, you're not going to be happy. If you're not happy, it's going to cast a shadow on why you wanted to do it in the first place. Give the guy a chance to fix it. If he doesn't, move on without him.
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fixed.
 
victim5150":3ora9jqc said:
But it is cool when you have 2 guitar players that gel well tone wise playing wise and attitude wise. It's a great sound and you can do some really cool stuff. Hard to come by though.
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:) Exactly
 
The singer in my band plays guitar as well. He can play ok but has me dial in his tone 'cause tweaking gear just ain't his thang.

Martin
 
Only every band I've ever been in.

My last band the other guitarist went through about 3 different amps give or take.

I had a triaxis rig w/mesa cabs, always got lots of compliments at shows. His mushy tone usually got lost in the mix while mine cut right through. We were a metal band, sort of melodic thrash with a little bit of prog.

When I joined the band (newest member) he had a 5150, but he didn't know how to dial it in right. Rather than learn how to set it he decided he needed a rack rig like mine to give him more options in a simpler package.

So he got a POD Pro rack unit... !??!?! And this isn't even the current HD Pro or whatever, this is '03/'04. So his mushy digital modeling sound was drowned out. This was too early after me joining the band for me to really argue or point out that him trying to get a cool all-in-one rack rig like mine by getting a POD was a completely backwards idea.

He wasn't happy with his tone so it wasn't too hard to throw him suggestions without insulting him. But I think it was the audience constantly complimenting me and no one really saying anything to him that pushed him to fix it.

He finally got a JMP-1 to replace the POD (with a Marshall power amp) and that finally gave him something complimentary to my sound.
 
all these complicated ideas.... all you have to do is have the bassist and the singer hang back and observe while you two play a few of the songs through EACH OTHERS rigs with the drummer.

you'll never see people man up quicker than that, and usually, it's the other guy with tone "issues" after half of his band says "dude, you sound incredible through his rig". next practice, chances are, he'll be in there early making tweaks, or frantically trying to re calibrate his sound. one guitarist i played with was SUPER deaf...and had such bad tone,and he would ALWAYS be turned around tweaking knobs right in front of his rig, even on stage...one night the singer goes over and shuts his amp off mid song when he's our running around in the crowd showing off his new wireless he bought for 100$....and the dude didnt notice until 2 songs later when he got back on stage and went to tweak his amp.

sure, the other guy will fight, kick, bite and scratch that he can't play this or that blah blah....but, when confronted with all these bs excuses, my outlook is (whether i voice it or not, but lol, usually id o)... i can make our shit sound good on a fucking crap antares acoustic with 1/2 inch action at the 12th fret when im writing it....wtf is ur deal.

a lot of dudes in bands ARENT guitar players....i wont go into what i mean here, those that know..do...those that will argue it or dont know what i mean...have no clue.

when working with another guitarist, for me, the nose for tone, chops, and ability to absorb and morph constructive criticism into a strength is usually what keeps me playing with someone else. if the band is worth it, and it's not working with the other guy, he's going to be the one that gets phased out, not me... to me, thats natural progression and survival of the fittest.

anyone can go buy a 3k suhr or ibby prestige or PRS etc etc and the latest trend amp...funny how a lot of those guys still sound like they're playing through a boss metal zone into a crate g130. granted, your tone will be 90% your tone no matter what you play through, but, that's providing you HAVE your own tone from the git go, and the nose to achieve it no matter the amp you're playing through.
 
Man, I'm feeling really lucky right about now. Everything is about getting the best sound possible. We're even thinking of re-amping his playing tracks through my amp so the tone is different but the timing will be spot on. I'll do an overlay track, solos, and lead/accent passages.

Thoughts?
 
yeti":3nfzh4d3 said:
all these complicated ideas.... all you have to do is have the bassist and the singer hang back and observe while you two play a few of the songs through EACH OTHERS rigs with the drummer.
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I have done this. It can help a lot. But other times it points out how much tone is in the hands.

Nice well thought-out post above. :yes:
 
stephen sawall":bzoz9j90 said:
yeti":bzoz9j90 said:
all these complicated ideas.... all you have to do is have the bassist and the singer hang back and observe while you two play a few of the songs through EACH OTHERS rigs with the drummer.
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I have done this. It can help a lot. But other times it points out how much tone is in the hands.

Nice well thought-out post above. :yes:
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Ya but when you are a great player with bad tone then you are just that; A great player with bad tone. A good example of that for me would be Dimebag Darrell. I HATE his tone. I can't deny that he was a great guitar player but I can't stand that tone.
 
but, he was the ONLY player in that band,and, whether we liked his tone or not, in the mix, he fit sonically, even if it seemed like the mix was centered heavily around his tone..which i never understood.. big difference when there's only one guitar. but, i see your point, and agree to a point, except for far beyond driven...loved his tone on that album...i still swear/say he did something tubey on the tracks that didnt get leaked...there's a certain growl and throatiness his tone had on that album that was different from the others.

i HATE zakks recorded tones...most of them anyway. they're thin and overly nasal to me. but his and nicks live tones REALLY mesh well together...
anyways, this is an awesome thread.

one thing a lot of guys forget too....they put their rigs in a corner of the jam room...and come stage time...all that bottom end and low mids just fade away to nothing and they're left with nothing but a train whistle-like-REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
kinda like a ringing ear tone.

when you're playing in a bar band, or jam band, there are certainly lots of ideas to listen to, experiences to draw from, and things to consider. i used to sidewash my old drummer with my bottom cab, and "T" the other top cab on top of it. then put my rack on a chair next to it, instead of full stacking to the audience with my rack on top. that way, we were linked in regardless of what was going on with the house, sound, and he got sidewashed with my bottom cab that's how i play..lockstep tight with the drummer, and this dude loved having guitar blaring in his ear...so it worked out perfectly for us.

it's easy to get caught up in the "my tone sounds soooooo good in my basement by myself" and wonder "what the fuck happened, it must be this room or the humidity or this or that" when you get in a band situation. you gotta learn how to be adaptable, and with this comes some humility and the willingness to lose that hardheaded stubborn-ness than most of us guitarists hold near and dear to our hearts. easier said than done...otherwise, this thread wouldn't be here (the other guitarists tone sucks bad!).
 
I had that issue in the last two guitar band I was in. My local sound guy actually brought it up to him and he admitted he had no idea about gear and we then helped him get some decent tone. He was a good guitarist and a good singer so it was worth the trouble, he was also a nice guy. If someone is a jerk about it life is too short and there are a lot of guitarist in the world.
 
yeti":1vkv8s24 said:
but, he was the ONLY player in that band,and, whether we liked his tone or not, in the mix, he fit sonically, even if it seemed like the mix was centered heavily around his tone..which i never understood.. big difference when there's only one guitar. but, i see your point, and agree to a point, except for far beyond driven...loved his tone on that album...i still swear/say he did something tubey on the tracks that didnt get leaked...there's a certain growl and throatiness his tone had on that album that was different from the others.

i HATE zakks recorded tones...most of them anyway. they're thin and overly nasal to me. but his and nicks live tones REALLY mesh well together...
anyways, this is an awesome thread.

one thing a lot of guys forget too....they put their rigs in a corner of the jam room...and come stage time...all that bottom end and low mids just fade away to nothing and they're left with nothing but a train whistle-like-REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
kinda like a ringing ear tone.

when you're playing in a bar band, or jam band, there are certainly lots of ideas to listen to, experiences to draw from, and things to consider. i used to sidewash my old drummer with my bottom cab, and "T" the other top cab on top of it. then put my rack on a chair next to it, instead of full stacking to the audience with my rack on top. that way, we were linked in regardless of what was going on with the house, sound, and he got sidewashed with my bottom cab that's how i play..lockstep tight with the drummer, and this dude loved having guitar blaring in his ear...so it worked out perfectly for us.

it's easy to get caught up in the "my tone sounds soooooo good in my basement by myself" and wonder "what the fuck happened, it must be this room or the humidity or this or that" when you get in a band situation. you gotta learn how to be adaptable, and with this comes some humility and the willingness to lose that hardheaded stubborn-ness than most of us guitarists hold near and dear to our hearts. easier said than done...otherwise, this thread wouldn't be here (the other guitarists tone sucks bad!).
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100% agree. Awesome post.
 
snakeman1986":n6tfpc20 said:
...that their tone SUCKS! For instance the other guitarist in the band I'm in has a good tube head but uses a bbe sonic maximizer stomp, he scoops almost all the mids out and saturates the dirty channel so much that you can't hear anything from him except for HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS. At one point he even used a distortion pedal into the dirty channel of a rectifier because he wanted more saturation. We are not playing heavy metal either. Just hard rock. He doesn't cut through the mix at all. For instance when I play a solo, there is pretty much no rhythm guitar behind it that is audible. Instead just a little hiss, if anything. Any of you guys been in this situation? Should I just let it be because it's "his tone?" I would feel like a douche trying to telling someone to change their tone.
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That's funny. The other guitarist in your band posted the exact same thing. Weird
 
Interesting and humorous stories in this thread. I suddenly realized while I was reading through it that I haven't shared guitar duties in a band since about 2002. :scared:

I've ended up shouldering the guitar duties in bands all by my lonesome for about 10 years now. I learned to play rhythm very quickly, let me tell ya. :lol: :LOL:

I also learned the importance of rig EQ according to the band dynamic. You can afford to scoop out SOME of the mids if you're part of a two-man team, but if you're the lone gun you better leave them mids in there. :thumbsup:
 
snakeman1986":1vez059j said:
...that their tone SUCKS! For instance the other guitarist in the band I'm in has a good tube head but uses a bbe sonic maximizer stomp, he scoops almost all the mids out and saturates the dirty channel so much that you can't hear anything from him except for HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS. At one point he even used a distortion pedal into the dirty channel of a rectifier because he wanted more saturation. We are not playing heavy metal either. Just hard rock. He doesn't cut through the mix at all. For instance when I play a solo, there is pretty much no rhythm guitar behind it that is audible. Instead just a little hiss, if anything. Any of you guys been in this situation? Should I just let it be because it's "his tone?" I would feel like a douche trying to telling someone to change their tone.
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That's why I'm the only guitarist in my project. :yes:
 
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