First Post Introducing Myself

[Price]

Hello everybody, I'd like to introduce myself.

I'm Price, yes I got the name from Better Call Saul.

After a 10 year hiatus from serious playing, I'm really trying to get back on track as a musician. I spent that decade teaching myself how to piece together Frankenstrats, set ups, trems, etc. I even bought a pickup winder and learned how to wind single coils. Unfortunately, spending so much time on the technical side really cost me as a musician, and it looks like the world of music has really changed as well. While I was busy researching trem post anchors and butyrate bobbins, I guess Rock and guitar-related music went tits up, or so they say.

It does seem harder to find friends who play guitar, though. I often find myself prattling away at helpless music store salesmen, going on and on about my little pet projects and personal opinions on trivial matters. Because of that, I am here, and I am hoping to make new friends this way

So a little info on my rig.

I like Marshalls, and I currently have an '83 JCM 800 half stack with a Metro amps fx loop as my main amp. The cab has 75 watt Celestions. I also like Randalls, I have a little RG80 single cab that I use as a practice/pretend I am Dimebag platform, and an old RGT100 that I have pulled the chassis on. That one is a project. My other project is a Jet City 20 watt head, upon which I have performed the Cerrem mod by wiring three 1kohm Arcol resistors in between the transformer primaries and power tube plates. The mod is stable with no red plating or runaway bias, and I like the results at 3kohm.

I have three main guitars- a '92 LP Studio with a Fishman piezoelectric bridge for a clean set up, a '99 SG Special with a Wilde 500XL, and an '05(?) Fernandes Monterey with a 70's era Bill Lawrence L500 and a sustainer in neck position. All of these guitars are black. I only play black guitars, idk why. I have several other guitars in various states of disrepair/disassembly.

I keep a simple pedal board with just 5 pedals including the tuner. I usually stack two OD's to get my dirty sound, with my favorite pair being a modified Boss SD1 into a Rawkworks Night OD. I maintain a small stable of other OD pedals usually in matching pairs as well. My only other effects are a Wampler Ethereal verb/delay and a Wazacraft Chorus. It is a simple board.

If anybody wants pictures of anything in particular, or wants more information about any of my gear, I am certainly happy to oblige

 

[Racerxrated]

Welcome! A good 800/JMP is always a mainstay in my collection. I have an 82 2204 on its way here, should have it by the weekend. Do you have an earlier T75 cab? With the vented magnets? Those are really underrated speakers, very different than any 75 from recent history. Very greenback sounding.
This forum MAY cause your bank account to dwindle, however....be forewarned. GAS can be a very addictive thing.

 

[311boogieman]

Nice rig and welcome to Rig-Talk

 

[skullfxr]

Nice setup. Welcome aboard. Cheers!

 

[Price]

Thank you all so much!

Welcome! A good 800/JMP is always a mainstay in my collection. I have an 82 2204 on its way here, should have it by the weekend. Do you have an earlier T75 cab? With the vented magnets? Those are really underrated speakers, very different than any 75 from recent history. Very greenback sounding.
This forum MAY cause your bank account to dwindle, however....be forewarned. GAS can be a very addictive thing.

Vented T75's? Interesting... I will have to open it up tomorrow and take a look.. IIRC they were definitely 80's era 75's but I don't remember any vents. The head and cab were bought separately, I just lucked out finding a somewhat appropriate cab nearby as almost nobody on the web is willing to ship a cab. This type of gear minutiae is yet another reason why I came back to the forums, thank you (seriously, I'm not being facetious!). I have been methodically researching every part of the signal chain from string to speaker, and I have become at least fairly familiar with everything up to output transformers and speakers. After a somewhat cursory google search, I am seeing comments about 1777 cones, high volume breakup in the higher frequencies, less scooped, etc. I would very much welcome any additional insights on the differences in speaker construction between these two iterations. It seems joining this forum has already paid dividends!

 

[Monkey Man]

Welcome, Price!

No amp setup to share, I'm afraid. Went Kemper (another tech development that happened during your hiatus) and haven't looked back.

 

[Detroit1973]

Welcome!

 

[jgillihan]

Welcome! Nice Marshall!!

 

[Price]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Racerxrated,

I opened up the cab and took some pics, and it looks like they are indeed the earlier vented 75's! They are really great sounding speakers, very prescient but not harsh or ice picky at all with nice roaring low mids. I picked it up from a guy on craigslist Baltimore who preferred Oranges, paid 275 for it.

 

[Racerxrated]

Those really are like they first advertised, high wattage greenbacks. At least to my ears there a lots of similarities, and next to a G12 65 cab they are close also..maybe a bit brighter depending on which 65s you have. Lots of different cone codes on the 65s. Anyway, after the vented versions they became a little more scooped in the mids, and continued that trend until the REALLY scooped versions today. I know, just turn up the mids on the Marshall...but even if you do they won't sound like the vented versions. They are fantastic speakers.

 

[Price]

That might explain the mixed opinions on 75's. I had speculated that mine were just really broken in or something. At my local Music Go Round there's a 4104 with two of the 70 watters. The poor little thing definitely needs some new tubes and a good cleaning, but I did manage to crank it for a bit just to check out the M70's. Not sure what to think of them to be honest, but I don't really think they were as bad as they are made out to be. Just really warm and a little... round? Dull? Not as much bite or cut. Almost like the polar opposite of today's super scooped Celestions. Maybe there is a happy medium or goldilocks zone when it comes to speakers for Marshalls.

I'm really excited about the '82 coming your way! Are you doin' a NAD?

 

[Racerxrated]

That might explain the mixed opinions on 75's. I had speculated that mine were just really broken in or something. At my local Music Go Round there's a 4104 with two of the 70 watters. The poor little thing definitely needs some new tubes and a good cleaning, but I did manage to crank it for a bit just to check out the M70's. Not sure what to think of them to be honest, but I don't really think they were as bad as they are made out to be. Just really warm and a little... round? Dull? Not as much bite or cut. Almost like the polar opposite of today's super scooped Celestions. Maybe there is a happy medium or goldilocks zone when it comes to speakers for Marshalls.

I'm really excited about the '82 coming your way! Are you doin' a NAD?

Most M70s I've played are pretty bad..but there was one 4x12 I bought thinking they were loaded with 65s, but came with 70s, they weren't too bad. But I still didn't keep it. Lol.
The 82 came today, at first I wasn't very impressed but I increased the bias(it was around 28ma per tube) to 37ma per and swapped the EH pre tubes with a vintage Mullard in V1 and Chinese 9th in V2 and the PI...wow what a difference. A little fun fact about the 82 50w 800s is the mid yr 82-mid yr 83 they came with over 500v on the plates...just a ripping power section. This one is a Sept 82. Also it came with 2 Winged C 34s, not perfectly matched but close enough. And even more weird, it has a Dagnall PT. I always thought the 50s came with Drakes and the 100s came with Dagnall. But I found a few other examples out there..it sounds killer so that's all that matters.
Probably do a nad in a couple days....it's been awhile since I did one.

 

[Price]

The 82 came today, at first I wasn't very impressed but I increased the bias(it was around 28ma per tube) to 37ma per and swapped the EH pre tubes with a vintage Mullard in V1 and Chinese 9th in V2 and the PI...wow what a difference. A little fun fact about the 82 50w 800s is the mid yr 82-mid yr 83 they came with over 500v on the plates...just a ripping power section. This one is a Sept 82. Also it came with 2 Winged C 34s, not perfectly matched but close enough. And even more weird, it has a Dagnall PT. I always thought the 50s came with Drakes and the 100s came with Dagnall. But I found a few other examples out there..it sounds killer so that's all that matters.
Probably do a nad in a couple days....it's been awhile since I did one.

Nice! Sounds like a great find you've got there !

I've gravitated towards a similar set up for my preamp- vintage in V1 and new production Rubys in V2 and PI. I prefer 60's GEs with circle getters, and have built up a small hoard to keep me going.

I like those Winged C's! Right now I've got some Svetlanas that are still going strong, but I will prob start shopping around for replacements soon.

Your comment about the massive plate voltages is EXTREMELY interesting to me! I knew that the early 70's JMPs had 6550's and 500+ on the plates, but that much headroom on non-MV amps really doesn't work out lol. Then came the botched implementation of the master volume in '76. I know after the end of the Rose-Morris deal, they upped it to about 475, but I didn't know they went above that! It totally makes sense though as I think 6550s have absolute max ratings in the 600v range, so maybe they decided to push the envelope? That's why I love Marshall!

I couldn't remember the month of manufacture of mine, so I opened it up this morning and look what I found!




Looks like March '83! Next time I pull the chassis I'll confirm the voltages.

The scenario with the transformers is interesting, too. I've only heard anecdotal reports concerning tonal differences between the two, but no claims that one set was better than the other. Frankly, I've always been of the opinion that neither Dagnall nor Drake were asked to provide particularly great transformers. Certainly not on the level of say a Partridge or Mercury Magnetics. I think Jim was already wary of Rose-Morris' 55% mark up.

I've always been interested in the early 80's era of Marshall, and I really do think that the JCM 800 preamp topology is their greatest, most influential design. It seems like the end of the Rose-Morris era brought about a renewed sense of optimism at Marshall, and maybe some experimentation as well. Of course, that may have ended in the latter half of '83, and then we begin to witness the effects of cost-cutting and bean counting in the 2203 line. In all fairness, there were numerous outside factors that may have exacerbated Marshall's issues, most notably the turn towards semi-conductors and the resultant volatility in the vacuum tube industry. But hey, it wasn't all bad. We still got the Silver Jubilees and MK III master models!

 

[311boogieman]

Side story as my Splawn '08 Quick Rod is similar in some regards. The plate voltage is like 485v. It has Heyboer transformers. Massive massive iron. I run my amp at half power for the lower headroom and to save on tubes. So I pull the outer tubes (currently SED =C=), set switch to half power, and drop the ohms in half. So although I'm not taking advantage of the entire Heyboer OT, I really can't tell a difference. I then have one of those volume boxes in the FX loop as a global master. I also run the treble on '0'

I've had good luck with those 9th gen Chinese tubes but usually prefer JJs all around. I'm not really going for that 80's hairy buzzy rock - although I love it and that's what I grew up on. This amp can certainly do that if set up slightly different - i.e. less dark tubes and more treble and presence. I've also been super happy with these JAN Phillips 5751s for either V1 (V2 in my amp) or the phase inverter slot.

 

[Price]

Very nice! Looks like a really fun rig!

I have a lot of respect for Scott. He put in the work running a store, being self-taught and testing out all of his mods live. Any opinion on the Nitro?

I actually set up my Randall RGT100 in a similar way, pulled out two tubes so I could hook it up to my smaller cab and threw an Empress ParaEQ in the loop. Unfortunately, that is where the similarities between that Randall and your Splawn end as the RGT100 is literally the most poorly voiced tube amp I have ever heard! However, it will be a nice platform for one of my projects. 5 preamp tube sockets, reverb tank, and a couple of great big woodward schumacher transformers...

 

[Racerxrated]

The 82 came today, at first I wasn't very impressed but I increased the bias(it was around 28ma per tube) to 37ma per and swapped the EH pre tubes with a vintage Mullard in V1 and Chinese 9th in V2 and the PI...wow what a difference. A little fun fact about the 82 50w 800s is the mid yr 82-mid yr 83 they came with over 500v on the plates...just a ripping power section. This one is a Sept 82. Also it came with 2 Winged C 34s, not perfectly matched but close enough. And even more weird, it has a Dagnall PT. I always thought the 50s came with Drakes and the 100s came with Dagnall. But I found a few other examples out there..it sounds killer so that's all that matters.
Probably do a nad in a couple days....it's been awhile since I did one.

Nice! Sounds like a great find you've got there !

I've gravitated towards a similar set up for my preamp- vintage in V1 and new production Rubys in V2 and PI. I prefer 60's GEs with circle getters, and have built up a small hoard to keep me going.

I like those Winged C's! Right now I've got some Svetlanas that are still going strong, but I will prob start shopping around for replacements soon.

Your comment about the massive plate voltages is EXTREMELY interesting to me! I knew that the early 70's JMPs had 6550's and 500+ on the plates, but that much headroom on non-MV amps really doesn't work out lol. Then came the botched implementation of the master volume in '76. I know after the end of the Rose-Morris deal, they upped it to about 475, but I didn't know they went above that! It totally makes sense though as I think 6550s have absolute max ratings in the 600v range, so maybe they decided to push the envelope? That's why I love Marshall!

I couldn't remember the month of manufacture of mine, so I opened it up this morning and look what I found!




Looks like March '83! Next time I pull the chassis I'll confirm the voltages.

The scenario with the transformers is interesting, too. I've only heard anecdotal reports concerning tonal differences between the two, but no claims that one set was better than the other. Frankly, I've always been of the opinion that neither Dagnall nor Drake were asked to provide particularly great transformers. Certainly not on the level of say a Partridge or Mercury Magnetics. I think Jim was already wary of Rose-Morris' 55% mark up.

I've always been interested in the early 80's era of Marshall, and I really do think that the JCM 800 preamp topology is their greatest, most influential design. It seems like the end of the Rose-Morris era brought about a renewed sense of optimism at Marshall, and maybe some experimentation as well. Of course, that may have ended in the latter half of '83, and then we begin to witness the effects of cost-cutting and bean counting in the 2203 line. In all fairness, there were numerous outside factors that may have exacerbated Marshall's issues, most notably the turn towards semi-conductors and the resultant volatility in the vacuum tube industry. But hey, it wasn't all bad. We still got the Silver Jubilees and MK III master models!

Love love love Jubilees, I had a 2554 combo from 88 as my first Jube and that's the one I wish I had back, just a smooth warm sweet tone. I sold it to a guy out in Maryland on ebay and NONE since had that magic. I've had 8 more since and while they are all killer, that first one was special.
My first 82 2204 was a 799 find at a GC, couple yrs back before the price increase. It had a loop and some circuit mods, but whatever was done it sounded just incredible. Slight gain boost but tight and abundant bass, really transparent loop. I sold it trying to build funds up for a Wizard. Then, I found a JMP 2104 combo for 1200 shipped with 65s and when I got it, turned out it was an 82! Canadian version, they kept the JMP skin for a few yrs into the 80s. Again just a monster power section, put out like a 2203. So I researched it a bit and read that the 82-83 2204s had these high voltage transformers for a time. I knew then I would search out an 82 2204 again and hopefully find some more magic.
I will add though, when it comes to transformers I haven't heard a Mercury in a Marshall that I liked. I've had some modded Marshalls where the former owner elected to go that route, and I didn't care for the result. Now, Wizards use Mercury and they have arguably the most amazing power section of ANY amp made..no complaints there. I have read that the Drake/Dagnalls Marshall used weren't particularly special but to my ears they make Marshall tone complete. It just worked and worked well..happy accident if Jim went cheaper. It certainly worked out better than he probably hoped.
I usually pass on a Marshall with a non original trans. I've heard/played clones/builds by reputable builders, but there is something about a real deal Marshall that the clones just can't quite get right. I'm convinced it's the transformers.

 

[Racerxrated]

Side story as my Splawn '08 Quick Rod is similar in some regards. The plate voltage is like 485v. It has Heyboer transformers. Massive massive iron. I run my amp at half power for the lower headroom and to save on tubes. So I pull the outer tubes (currently SED =C=), set switch to half power, and drop the ohms in half. So although I'm not taking advantage of the entire Heyboer OT, I really can't tell a difference. I then have one of those volume boxes in the FX loop as a global master. I also run the treble on '0'

I've had good luck with those 9th gen Chinese tubes but usually prefer JJs all around. I'm not really going for that 80's hairy buzzy rock - although I love it and that's what I grew up on. This amp can certainly do that if set up slightly different - i.e. less dark tubes and more treble and presence. I've also been super happy with these JAN Phillips 5751s for either V1 (V2 in my amp) or the phase inverter slot.

One of these days I'll have to try a QR, I've always heard the 3 pre versions are the ones to get, they seem a little more aggressive than any other version. Scott is good people.

 

[311boogieman]

^I've heard that too and maybe it is true. Never played one of the originals. Never really saw or heard as to how/why. I doubt it has anything to do with the tube stages because basically what Scott did was add a '4th' preamp tube as V1. '4th' including the PI. V2 is the input stage for both channels with second half being gain stage 2 for OD. V1 is second gain stage of clean channel. Let me repeat that. V1 is second gain stage of clean channel. I actually wonder if that is a typo LOL

It has been established that extra preamp tube (V1) was added to improve the clean channel.

If that somehow takes away some aggressiveness then maybe that's it. Personally, I think my amp is more than aggressive. For example, I never use Gear 3 and I never use the solo boost.

If I turn up the treble on the OD channel (because it is usually all the way off) then the clean channel is really nice. I know it is never going to be a Marshall but for those that require a clean channel and stellar FX loop with footswitchable channels, OD levels, Gears and Solo boost a Splawn is a great amp for what...$2,200 new? Much less used.

Very nice! Looks like a really fun rig!

I have a lot of respect for Scott. He put in the work running a store, being self-taught and testing out all of his mods live. Any opinion on the Nitro?

Never played a Nitro. From what I read - I think people would be more happy with a QR or variant of. Not that the Nitro sounds bad or anything. It might just not be as flexible as a QR and may have too much low end if that is a thing. Bad Seed would be a good guy to talk to about this.

I'm also reading on the Splawn forum that Scott is now a one man shop and is no longer doing mods or 'extra' work.

 

[Price]

I haven't heard a Mercury in a Marshall that I liked. I've had some modded Marshalls where the former owner elected to go that route, and I didn't care for the result. Now, Wizards use Mercury and they have arguably the most amazing power section of ANY amp made..no complaints there. I have read that the Drake/Dagnalls Marshall used weren't particularly special but to my ears they make Marshall tone complete. It just worked and worked well..happy accident if Jim went cheaper. It certainly worked out better than he probably hoped.
I usually pass on a Marshall with a non original trans. I've heard/played clones/builds by reputable builders, but there is something about a real deal Marshall that the clones just can't quite get right. I'm convinced it's the transformers.

That really is part of the Marshall magic, the fact that Jim could get everything to work together as well as he did. To me, it was like he made Ferraris at BMW prices in Toyota numbers. Every time I've seen a comment about "transformer rolling" I really had to bite my tongue To each his own!

I think the draw of high end transformers might be their consistency, and therefore, maybe better reliability? I admit if I were a low volume, boutique builder with low overhead, I wouldn't mind paying extra for them. Especially if I didn't want an unhappy customer returning one of my expensive products. But I do wonder sometimes, if maybe Drake and Dagnall knew something special about making cheap but good audio amp transformers. Maybe the same thing with Woodward Schumacher, as I've heard that there is a "family connection" between that largely defunct operation and Classic Tone...

 

[Price]

Never played a Nitro. From what I read - I think people would be more happy with a QR or variant of. Not that the Nitro sounds bad or anything. It might just not be as flexible as a QR and may have too much low end if that is a thing. Bad Seed would be a good guy to talk to about this.

I'm also reading on the Splawn forum that Scott is now a one man shop and is no longer doing mods or 'extra' work.

Yeah stepping out into the realm of metal amps is a bold move what with Peavey, Mesa, Engl, Diezel and the rest already out there. Maybe I am talking out of turn here, but at a certain level of "brootz" they all start to sound a little too similar to my ear, and modeling amps start to look pretty attractive at that point.

Sucks to hear that about Scott Sometimes I have Jeff Bober work on my amps, and I kind of want to ask him how he made it all work out with Budda. I think I already know what he would say - do your homework and work your butt off. Whether or not all your hard work pays off is another story, though. I think I'll just stick to my day job and rock out for fun