Fortin 33 Fortin Zuul Opinion Issue Problem

[Simon Dorn]

Hi,

i have the 33 and the Zuul here at the moment. I thought about replacing my pedals (or adding some options), that i currently have.
Here are my findings:

The 33 is a nice clean boost. Well built. Low noise. And i think the switching jack is a nice option. The polarity switch could be a bit bigger (like on the mini versions)
A bit pricey though. Seems to be a modified TC Integrated Preamp with a fixed EQ-curve.

BUT it's distorting/clipping the input of the Zuul with the boost set higher than 2 o'clock. It sounds like a broken cry baby-effect and it's even worse with the Decimator II.
Signal chain: Guitar (EMG 81) > 33 > Zuul > Rectifier.

It works the other way around: Guitar (EMG 81) > Zuul > 33 but that's changing the playing feel.
I don't want to use it in the loop. The Rectifier itself does not need a noise gate.
And i don't want to use the key input either. I don't want to worry about extra gear, cables and buffers and so on.

It's either gating too much or not enough.
It has some trails and/ or strings ringing through, after damping the strings.
And it cuts off the sustain when correctly set. (silence in the break).

Also, it does add some hiss/noise to the signal, when activated and placed last in the chain and some tubescreamer like clipping, even with the gain set low on the 33. It's not as audible when the Zuul is first in the chain, but it's there. (No extra hiss in this position). And it makes a switching plopp/click. The ISP Decimator is more transparent to me than the Zuul.

I tried to like the pedals, but unfortunately it didn't happen.
I like the 33 but i can't use it in my set-up without a noise gate/noise supressor.
Two Maxon Pedals (OD9,ST9Pro+) set to max gain and level did not clip the Decimator.
Did not try that with the Zuul because i don't plan to keep it.

Best Regards,
Simon

Maybe i'll do a YT clip. But i don't know yet

 

[fek]

I wonder if this issue would happen with a Boss NS2? I have a brand new NS2 so maybe I will try to clip the front end of it tonight. I don't have a 33 but I do have several boost / OD's with a good bit of volume in them.

To be honest, I don't think that I have ever put a boost in front of a noise gate. However I do use the gate in a RP1000 running in the 4CM with boosts out front. But I guess the 4CM would place the gate out of the way somehow. IDK.

 

[Simon Dorn]

No, it will not happen with the NS2 with a boost, or overdrive.
I think it has something to do with the preamp in the 33.
I don't know if the 81 is the problem in conjunction with the 33!?

 

[fearhk213]

I also find running the 33, Grind, & Blade past 2:00 into the front end of the Zuul causes it to distort/clip. Using the key input won't have any impact on that. Also, I use passive pickups varying from low to high output and that doesn't matter, so I doubt the 81 is contributing. You really need to use the Zuul in the loop if you you're planning to run the 33 higher than 2:00.

Now regarding other boosts, the Zuul handles my other boosts/od's dimed into it without breaking a sweat, so I've found no need to use it in the loop with those. Regardless of whether it's in the loop or not, I still prefer to use the key input. That way I can change boost pedals without having to adjust the Zuul since it's keyed off the guitar. You can use a simple splitter cable if you don't want to use an additional pedal. I've used one in that past and didn't find it to have a negative impact on my tone. I've also never found the Zuul to add any noise when placed last in the chain. Could be a ground loop or maybe the power source? Try it with a battery and see if that noise goes away.

That doesn't helps your situation any, but I figured I'd respond lol.

 

[psychodave]

Hate to say it but seems like using it in the loop is your best option.

 

[Simon Dorn]

I also find running the 33, Grind, & Blade past 2:00 into the front end of the Zuul causes it to distort/clip. Using the key input won't have any impact on that. Also, I use passive pickups varying from low to high output and that doesn't matter, so I doubt the 81 is contributing. You really need to use the Zuul in the loop if you you're planning to run the 33 higher than 2:00.

Now regarding other boosts, the Zuul handles my other boosts/od's dimed into it without breaking a sweat, so I've found no need to use it in the loop with those. Regardless of whether it's in the loop or not, I still prefer to use the key input. That way I can change boost pedals without having to adjust the Zuul since it's keyed off the guitar. You can use a simple splitter cable if you don't want to use an additional pedal. I've used one in that past and didn't find it to have a negative impact on my tone. I've also never found the Zuul to add any noise when placed last in the chain. Could be a ground loop or maybe the power source? Try it with a battery and see if that noise goes away.

That doesn't helps your situation any, but I figured I'd respond lol.

Thanks for your reply! Great response
How would i use the splitter cable? Can you tell me the chain?
My other pedals work fine with my power supply.

 

[Simon Dorn]

Hate to say it but seems like using it in the loop is your best option.

"Best to the the ZUUL in the fx loop", is what Fortin has answered to my email, in the meantime
I will stick to my other pedals then.

 

[fearhk213]

I also find running the 33, Grind, & Blade past 2:00 into the front end of the Zuul causes it to distort/clip. Using the key input won't have any impact on that. Also, I use passive pickups varying from low to high output and that doesn't matter, so I doubt the 81 is contributing. You really need to use the Zuul in the loop if you you're planning to run the 33 higher than 2:00.

Now regarding other boosts, the Zuul handles my other boosts/od's dimed into it without breaking a sweat, so I've found no need to use it in the loop with those. Regardless of whether it's in the loop or not, I still prefer to use the key input. That way I can change boost pedals without having to adjust the Zuul since it's keyed off the guitar. You can use a simple splitter cable if you don't want to use an additional pedal. I've used one in that past and didn't find it to have a negative impact on my tone. I've also never found the Zuul to add any noise when placed last in the chain. Could be a ground loop or maybe the power source? Try it with a battery and see if that noise goes away.

That doesn't helps your situation any, but I figured I'd respond lol.

Thanks for your reply! Great response
How would i use the splitter cable? Can you tell me the chain?
My other pedals work fine with my power supply.

The splitter is a Y-cable (1 x female & 2 x male). Take the cable from your guitar and plug it into the female end of the Y-cable. Then from there one of the male ends goes to the key input of the Zuul and the other male end goes to your front end pedal chain.

 

[Simon Dorn]

Ok, i get it, thanks!

 

[moltenmetalburn]

You found your problems but don’t want to be inconvenienced with implementing the solutions.

I think your best bet may truly be to use other gear that better suits your predetermined constraints if these don’t work well for you.

Zuul is best used in the fx, I would be surprised if that wasn’t the main intention of the design based on its circuit and features. The 33/TC has approx 22db boost available. Im not surprised only a tube amp directly can take that punishment.

Zuul does however has a bipolar voltage supply with a charge pump. With a 9v supply you’ll get approx 18 volts of swing and with a 12v 24 volts of swing. In fact I would recommend trying 12volts for the extra headroom and seeing if that helps any as well with clipping.

Your active pickups are already a buffer which is why the passive splitter recommended above will work with the key input. No added buffer needed.

Your Mesa may only have a parallel loop depending on the model which would be incompatible with zuul.

 

[Simon Dorn]

I will write some of the answers in between the quote:

You found your problems but don’t want to be inconvenienced with implementing the solutions.
Yes

I think your best bet may truly be to use other gear that better suits your predetermined constraints if these don’t work well for you.
Yes, again

Zuul is best used in the fx, I would be surprised if that wasn’t the main intention of the design based on its circuit and features. The 33/TC has approx 22db boost available. Im not surprised only a tube amp directly can take that punishment.
Is this a different type of gain boost (like preamp-boost)?, than a Maxon ST9pro+, for example, which has a Maximum Gainof: 51dB @(2.2kHz), for example

Zuul does however has a bipolar voltage supply with a charge pump. With a 9v supply you’ll get approx 18 volts of swing and with a 12v 24 volts of swing. In fact I would recommend trying 12volts for the extra headroom and seeing if that helps any as well with clipping.


Your active pickups are already a buffer which is why the passive splitter recommended above will work with the key input. No added buffer needed.

Thanks for the tips, but i'm going to send both pedals back. The prices nowadays are crazy, anyway. 570€ once was 1140 Deutsche Mark. Back in the early 90ies you could get a Marshall 1959SLP reissue and Boss DS-1 for it and you had still some bucks left ....but inflation is a different story

Your Mesa may only have a parallel loop depending on the model which would be incompatible with zuul.

It's a Rev F with a serial loop, but i don't like it
But even in the clips of the ZUUL on the Fortin Homepage (with key input and ZUUL in the loop), you can clearly hear the other issues, that i described

 

[IntenseJim]

Mini Zuul in loop of my Fryette PS2 is fantastic.

I was not using the key input but then I decided to try it.
I have my guitar going into the Roach with one output into an isolation box to the mini Zuul key input and it’s fantastic.
I was getting a ground loop, but this cured it:
https://www.amazon.com/Compact-Mini-Hum ... B00BARTW3I

 

[Simon Dorn]

Mini Zuul in loop of my Fryette PS2 is fantastic.

I was not using the key input but then I decided to try it.
I have my guitar going into the Roach with one output into an isolation box to the mini Zuul key input and it’s fantastic.
I was getting a ground loop, but this cured it:
https://www.amazon.com/Compact-Mini-Hum ... B00BARTW3I

I'm not sure what the isolation box does, but you just told me that you need at least two extra devices to run a simple noise gate.
Awesome. I'm glad i sent it back. Even a Boss NS2 works better, if you ask me.
But if it works for you, everything is fine.

 

[hstlaurent]

The isolation box eliminates ground loop that you might have. At 18$ on Amazon, it’s hardly an issue.

 

[ClintN667]

I didn't get on with the fortin blade but I really love the Zuul. It's probably one of two pedals that never leave my board. I used the NS-2 for a couple years but I always knew it was on in negative ways. The Zuul I really can't tell it's on except that there is no noise.

At anyrate recently there have been some new gates on the market that might suit you better although I'm not certain of they are much different from the way the Zuul functions. The way I run my zuul is coming off a boss tuner with the key input before the boost then first in the effects loop. Whichever boost I'm using at the moment is just placed directly before the amp.

 

[Simon Dorn]

My signal chain is: Guitar>OD9>ST9Pro+>ISP Decimator 2 (on it's intended place)>Amp.
The Noisegate should be put after the noisy devices. The other appropriate place would be the loop.

 

[Simon Dorn]

The isolation box eliminates ground loop that you might have. At 18$ on Amazon, it’s hardly an issue.

I see. Even having to use only the iso box would be a deal-breaker for me.

 

[Metal1977]

Have you tried the 12 volts suggestion before sending the Zuul back?

 

[Simon Dorn]

Have you tried the 12 volts suggestion before sending the Zuul back?

No. The Decimator works perfectly fine.

 

[Metal1977]