Framus Dragon/Splawn 4x12... Bass heavy? Some ?s

[jwhitman]

So, the honeymoon period is over with my rig as it's seen a stage, gotten Ooos and Aaahs from my buddies and I've finally grown accustomed to it's feel and sound. It seems, unless I boost my head, that I cannot for the life of me get enough mids/highs in my tone. The cab has Hellatone 60s (V30s) and Celestion K100s in an X pattern at 8 ohms. The head has relatively new SED =C= EL34s w/ Ruby HG+ in V1 and V2, JJ's in the rest. Do you think it might be my cab/speaker combo? I've tried multiple guitars with no real difference, I tried an all V30 cab (Randall XL) which was even DARKER. I'd really like to not HAVE to use my boost to find my tone and just use it to get a little extra rip for leads/special sauce for BROOTZ rhythm. I've heard the K100s are known for being very balanced, if not "too clear" and a little bass heavy. But by all means, I'm not a affluent enough about speakers to know if that's my issue. It's not that the rig sounds "bad" at all. Boosted, she sounds amazing, but I'm running a boost on everything, including my cleans. The depth control is completely off and the presence on all my channels stays around 3 o'clock at least with sub noon bass, everything else noon or above.

Here's a little video.... This is boosted! It sounds killer, yet still a little bass heavy. Every video I find elsewhere shows Dragons and cobras, unboosted, ripping faces off. I figure maybe I'm just not tweaking something right? The FX knob is at 12 noon. I found that out early on when she sounded like shit and I was going ape shit

 

[headlessdeadguy]

I think it sounds just fine... Maybe try and boost it with an SD-1, they're cheap enough and will add some mid/highs.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Boosted, she sounds amazing

You're not the first person I've heard that gets angry at their amp "I shouldn't have to boost it, it should be great as is"

I say, if it sounds good, keep boosting...in he fact, leave 1 boost on all time and use a 2nd for lead solo boost. Many pros do this.

I think that clip doesn't have a Bass Heavy issue, I think it may have a too much slice off your head hi mids/hi eq issue- but that could be the camera mic

 

[jwhitman]

I think it sounds just fine... Maybe try and boost it with an SD-1, they're cheap enough and will add some mid/highs.

My issue isn't the boosted tone, I have to get a vid together of the non-boosted tone. I'll go do that now. That's my only issue is how she sounds without the boost. It's primarily bottom end with no highs.

You're not the first person I've heard that gets angry at their amp "I shouldn't have to boost it, it should be great as is"

I say, if it sounds good, keep boosting...in he fact, leave 1 boost on all time and use a 2nd for lead solo boost. Many pros do this.

I think that clip doesn't have a Bass Heavy issue, I think it may have a too much slice off your head hi mids/hi eq issue- but that could be the camera mic

That's the phone mic. Hrmm, that is something to consider... The clean gets a little brittle when boosted, I guess I could EQ that out and use the GCX I'm planning on getting to run a second boost to switch via midi. I'm sure this won't be my last amp purchase, as I'm looking for something not so "boutiquey and fragile" to go on the road with. Hell, I'm not really to worried about the fragile part, as I'm OCD. There's just alot of sticky fingered folks in some of the places we play and I'd hate to loose a head that I couldn't replace for what I've got in it. I originally wanted to stick with one boost so I'd in theory have 6 channels or "base tones" to build patches from. A set of unboosted, and then a set of boosted channels. But not everything goes as planned

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

IMO it's the K100s....

When I ran them in my cabs (x-pattern with V30s), I HAD to keep my rig boosted to make it sound good (I used a Maxon OD808)....I could get things to cut to punch right without the boost...it was always too dark.

I later switched to all V30s in my cabs....it wasn't until then that I found good tones with JUST my amp...now I only boost for leads, which is what I wanted to do in the first place.

Hope that helps!

 

[jwhitman]

IMO it's the K100s....

When I ran them in my cabs (x-pattern with V30s), I HAD to keep my rig boosted to make it sound good (I used a Maxon OD808)....I could get things to cut to punch right without the boost...it was always too dark.

I later switched to all V30s in my cabs....it wasn't until then that I found good tones with JUST my amp...now I only boost for leads, which is what I wanted to do in the first place.

Hope that helps!

Any alternatives to all V30s? Maybe just a pair to swap the K100s for? I'm up for experimenting. I'm just not a fan of how this amp sounded through an all V30 cab.

This vid is of her through a V30 cab, boosted. Real thick, but lacked a bit in cut for my taste. I may have just been that particular cab too though. Pardon the flubs.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I'm sort of in the same boat- I'd prefer not to carry around an arsenal of pedals. My Zakk OD toggle is going south, so that gives the excuse to buy another, I'm looking at the BB+, 2 pedals in 1

 

[Mailman1971]

I think Motorpud has a Dragon as well as a Splawn cab.....

wonder what he thinks of the combo?

 

[Capulin Overdrive]

what Preamp Tubez? if they're JJ's, throw them all in trash!

$15 tube in V1 is the easiest way to change your sound.

 

[jwhitman]

I'm sort of in the same boat- I'd prefer not to carry around an arsenal of pedals. My Zakk OD toggle is going south, so that gives the excuse to buy another, I'm looking at the BB+, 2 pedals in 1

My rhythm player uses the Zakk OD. Hrmm, I LOVE my Suhr Shiba. It's not going anywhere.

I think Motorpud has a Dragon as well as a Splawn cab.....

wonder what he thinks of the combo?

Hopefully he'll chime in. I'd love to know how he likes it and what speakers he run.

what Preamp Tubez? if they're JJ's, throw them all in trash!

$15 tube in V1 is the easiest way to change your sound.

Ruby HG+ in V1 and V2

 

[Capulin Overdrive]

try a Tung-sol in V1.

move the Ruby's up to v2, v3, v4 etc., and get as many of the JJ's out of there as you can.


suppose you could leave a JJ for the PI?

 

[jwhitman]

try a Tung-sol in V1.

move the Ruby's up to v2, v3, v4 etc., and get as many of the JJ's out of there as you can.


suppose you could leave a JJ for the PI?

Why Tung-Sol? (Not challenging your opinion, I just have no fucking clue and wanna know... )

 

[Capulin Overdrive]

Tung-sol has a deferent voice than the JJ or Chinese tubes.

the Tung-sol will give you more mids over those two, and it has more caracter or life to it.

JJ's are dark nasty tubes IMHO.

Chinese are great and low noise preamp tubes, just better to have something deferent in V1 for some life.

also just found out that Ruby uses some JJ tubes, so there's a chance your HG+ could maybe be JJ?

if you can't tell, i hate JJ preamp tubes!

 

[jwhitman]

Tung-sol has a deferent voice than the JJ or Chinese tubes.

the Tung-sol will give you more mids over those two, and it has more caracter or life to it.

JJ's are dark nasty tubes IMHO.

Chinese are great and low noise preamp tubes, just better to have something deferent in V1 for some life.

also just found out that Ruby uses some JJ tubes, so there's a chance your HG+ could maybe be JJ?

if you can't tell, i hate JJ preamp tubes!

Anything particularly special about swapping around pre amp tubes? Necessary to bias or anything? I'm just a player learning how to work on his own shit for the first time.... LOL

 

[Motorpud]

I think Motorpud has a Dragon as well as a Splawn cab.....

wonder what he thinks of the combo?

Hopefully he'll chime in. I'd love to know how he likes it and what speakers he run.

You raaaang?

Mines exactly the same way. It's low heavy with very little mids or highs unless boosted. It's undoubtedly the darkest amp I've ever used. That's not really a bad thing depending on what you like, I prefer bright amps though so I'm not sure the Dragon is for me

FWIW I'm running it through a Splawn cab with V30s. My setting are bass 10 O,clock, mids past 3 o'clock, treble and presence past 3 oclock and depth at around 9 oclock or less and it's still pretty dark. Just can't seem to get it to cut without a boost For the boost I've tried the ZW OD, Danelectro Timmy clone, and MXR Classic OD and I think the classic OD sounds best with it. If you can find a way to brighten it up I'd be all ears

 

[Capulin Overdrive]

Tung-sol has a deferent voice than the JJ or Chinese tubes.

the Tung-sol will give you more mids over those two, and it has more caracter or life to it.

JJ's are dark nasty tubes IMHO.

Chinese are great and low noise preamp tubes, just better to have something deferent in V1 for some life.

also just found out that Ruby uses some JJ tubes, so there's a chance your HG+ could maybe be JJ?

if you can't tell, i hate JJ preamp tubes!

Anything particularly special about swapping around pre amp tubes? Necessary to bias or anything? I'm just a player learning how to work on his own shit for the first time.... LOL

read your manual and find out which preamp tube is the Phase Inverter, and don't touch it. all of the rest of them you can change or move around without worrying about them.


and really don't know if changing the Phase Inverter matters? i just never change the Phase Inverter without checking the bias.

 

[jwhitman]

I think Motorpud has a Dragon as well as a Splawn cab.....

wonder what he thinks of the combo?

Hopefully he'll chime in. I'd love to know how he likes it and what speakers he run.

You raaaang?

Mines exactly the same way. It's low heavy with very little mids or highs unless boosted. It's undoubtedly the darkest amp I've ever used. That's not really a bad thing depending on what you like, I prefer bright amps though so I'm not sure the Dragon is for me

FWIW I'm running it through a Splawn cab with V30s. My setting are bass 10 O,clock, mids past 3 o'clock, treble and presence past 3 oclock and depth at around 9 oclock or less and it's still pretty dark. Just can't seem to get it to cut without a boost For the boost I've tried the ZW OD, Danelectro Timmy clone, and MXR Classic OD and I think the classic OD sounds best with it. If you can find a way to brighten it up I'd be all ears

I'm thinking about going G12-75s x w/my v30. I hear they are alot grittier and have a mid/higher voice than the V30s. It's worth a shot. My Draggie loves my Suhr boost. If you didn't check out that first vid, have a listen. She screams, sorry for the quality. I recorded it with my Android.

 

[jwhitman]

Tung-sol has a deferent voice than the JJ or Chinese tubes.

the Tung-sol will give you more mids over those two, and it has more caracter or life to it.

JJ's are dark nasty tubes IMHO.

Chinese are great and low noise preamp tubes, just better to have something deferent in V1 for some life.

also just found out that Ruby uses some JJ tubes, so there's a chance your HG+ could maybe be JJ?

if you can't tell, i hate JJ preamp tubes!

Anything particularly special about swapping around pre amp tubes? Necessary to bias or anything? I'm just a player learning how to work on his own shit for the first time.... LOL

read your manual and find out which preamp tube is the Phase Inverter, and don't touch it. all of the rest of them you can change or move around without worrying about them.


and really don't know if changing the Phase Inverter matters? i just never change the Phase Inverter without checking the bias.

Alright, I'll see if I can find some Tung-Sols locally and give it a shot. I'm definitely not trying to fuck anything up.

 

[madrigal77]

Ditch the JJ's. They are dull and overly dark sounding tubes.

 

[jwhitman]

AH fubar! I found out my cleans sound good because the HG+ in V1 is the clean EQ, both my Crunch and Lead channel EQ's are handled by V3 which happens to be a JJ