Friedman Runt 50 vs Marshall 1987X

[Lau4]

The title says it all.
I'm interested in buying one of those but I would like to know if someone have experience with both (or, at least, one).
Looking for a true vintage rock/hard rock tone but keeping in mind something more heavy if needed.
Have seen reviews, videos and pretty much anything so I'm aware of some aspects as the phenomenal fx-loop of the Friedman, his capacity to deliver, with no od's, a more aggressive tone as I know that the Marshall have plenty of headroom, pedal friendly and deliver faithfully (at least as possible as an reissue can be) the tone they are known for.

Hoping some good advices...

Thank you

 

[Zado]

I'd consider Splawn, Ceriatone and Bray eventually

 

[Lau4]

I'd consider Splawn, Ceriatone and Bray eventually

Thanks for the advice but really interested on the amps I've mentioned. Besides, I'm in Europe and those you referred are hard to find or expensive to order.

 

[Zado]

I'd consider Splawn, Ceriatone and Bray eventually

Thanks for the advice but really interested on the amps I've mentioned. Besides, I'm in Europe and those you referred are hard to find or expensive to order.

Bray no doubt, Splawn can be found occasionally, Ceriatone it's quite cheap and can be found quite often, at least here in Italy. You can order one from the builder too. Friedman in Europe is hell expensive as well

 

[Lau4]

I'd consider Splawn, Ceriatone and Bray eventually

Thanks for the advice but really interested on the amps I've mentioned. Besides, I'm in Europe and those you referred are hard to find or expensive to order.

Bray no doubt, Splawn can be found occasionally, Ceriatone it's quite cheap and can be found quite often, at least here in Italy. You can order one from the builder too. Friedman in Europe is hell expensive as well

Yes, normally any products from the States are expensive here, but Friedman products are well known and so are their characteristics, hence my request on that brand opposite to the Marshall 1987X.
I'm aware of the alternatives and I've looked at Ceriatone before but I have less information on their products and don't know or seen enough to rely on them.

 

[ElectricVoodoo]

I've owned the 87x. And coincidentally aso like the runt.

I can tell you that the 87x is very loud.
Non MV.... Even with the inputs jumped, the breakup will not get you in the territory that the Runt will. Obviously the 87x is vintage

But, based on the platform, I'd go the 87x for its headroom and being a platform that easily adapts to pedals, it's standalone tone imo, is up there with the best for that style if that's the route your looking at.

Again, can't really comment on the runt, although I like the tones it has, all the friedman clips I hear always sound thin. That could just be me though. Im a marshall guy so I may be biased.

For playing ar home, the 87 is not practical. It's very very loud and unless your using an attenuator, it's deafening Without a doubt, the loudest amp I've ever owned.

I had mine modded by bray, even after the ppimv, it still needed some volume.

 

[mchn13]

1987x with a master installed, and a couple boost pedals. Classic for a reason.

 

[napalmdeath]

1987x with a master installed, and a couple boost pedals. Classic for a reason.

+1. The Runt is far from aggressive. It's actually too polite, and has less gain than you might, (and others), think. Even with boost pedals, it's not a metal amp. Yes, I've owned one, and was sorely disappointed. If volume isn't an issue, the 1987X and the right pedals will blow it's doors off.

As for the Ceriatone - they're solid, and shouldn't be expensive at all in Europe, since they ship from overseas anyway. The Yeti is their version of a souped-up, angry Plexi. Exactly what you would want.

I would highly suggest a used Marshall JCM2000 DSL. Not exactly Plexi, but CHEAP, and aggressive Marshall tone. I actually had a DSL50 when I bought the Runt 50, and returned the Runt. The DSL green/crunch channel boosted, just kicked all kinds of ass.

I've owned a Splawn Quick Rod & Competition as well. I'd 100% recommend those over the Marshall, or Friedman for what you're after. But, alas, they're hard to come by in Europe, I would imagine.

 

[fusedbrain]

1987x with a master installed, and a couple boost pedals. Classic for a reason.

I've got a 1987x and I agree with this 100%. However, even with the PPIMV installed, it doesn't sound great until you turn it up, unless you set it pretty clean and use pedals for the low volume tones. It ain't no bedroom amp, that's for sure!

DSL's are versatile, workhorse amps, and can be had cheep, but I don't feel the core tone can compete with the 1987x.

As others have mentioned, I'd seriously look at CeriaTone. Unless you're willing to spring for a Dirty Shirley, BE100 or SS100, I think the CeriaTone amps are the best tone for the $$.

 

[Lau4]

Thanks for the replies!
When I've said aggressive I've should said gainier or capable of entering more in a heavyer territory without pedals. Of course is the classic/vintage aggression, rasp tone, but somehow, with modern tweak sound, that I'm after.
What I have in mind is a Friedman BE tone. Some classic drive but on steroids if you want but with a polite, hi-fied, or modern, little twist. A classic tone but muscled and refined.
I know and played the DSL models and my band mate had a TSL. Is crunchy but not classy enough (at least for me)... not vintage or throaty enough. Think Whitesnake (Doug Aldrich) live and you might know what I mean.
I own a Dual Rectifier and I have the Hi-gain (extreme) territory covered.
What I need is a punchy, rasp, plenty of mids, classy tone that I can cut through the band mix with ease and have a agressive lead tone... and take pedals well.
The kind of tone we can find on those modded Marshall's Dave Friedman use to do.
The BE is too expensive, the Pink Taco have little options and little power, the Small Box it is also above what I'm willing to spend... So I've started to look for the Marshall Reissue series and the Runt.
Ceriatone (as other clones) seems to make good amps also but are company's with less information/owners feedback, no resellers and mostly overseas.

 

[Lau4]

That Yeti might be what I'm looking for...

 

[LP Freak]

Out of the two go for the Runt. You’ll get what you’re after.

 

[mixn4him]

I'd say get a Friedman Small Box, Has the BE channel and the clean channel is a plexi mostly...Small box is a better amp than the Runt...

 

[napalmdeath]

The Runt WILL NOT get you there, period. It is NOT high gain. I had one, changed the tubes to KT77's, and boosted it with several boosts. I was thoroughly disappointed. It is NOT your aggressive, typical BE tone. It's refined, smooth, and polite. Even boosted it's not aggressive.

If you don't like the Marshall suggestions, I don't know what to tell you. The DSL is more aggressive in every way, and more vintage sounding than a TSL, (I hated that amp).

I'd look at a Laney - specifically a GH50L. British, aggressive, responsive, and, IMO, shits on the Runt for a third of the price.

The Runt is a great sounding amp, but you'll make the same mistake I did - spend too much trying to make it something it is not, nor meant to be. Classic rock, sure.. AC/DC crunch, yes, 80's rock, sure, but, even boosted, that's as heavy as it'll get, and will leave you with the thoughts that "it's missing something".

I'm willing to bet, Dave beefs up the Runt in the near future. If he ups the gain and makes it more aggressive, I'm in. My complaints aren't the minority, several others have been down this road as well.

An EVH EL34 will get you there as well.

 

[JerEvil]

Thanks for the replies!
When I've said aggressive I've should said gainier or capable of entering more in a heavyer territory without pedals. Of course is the classic/vintage aggression, rasp tone, but somehow, with modern tweak sound, that I'm after.
What I have in mind is a Friedman BE tone. Some classic drive but on steroids if you want but with a polite, hi-fied, or modern, little twist. A classic tone but muscled and refined.
I know and played the DSL models and my band mate had a TSL. Is crunchy but not classy enough (at least for me)... not vintage or throaty enough. Think Whitesnake (Doug Aldrich) live and you might know what I mean.
I own a Dual Rectifier and I have the Hi-gain (extreme) territory covered.
What I need is a punchy, rasp, plenty of mids, classy tone that I can cut through the band mix with ease and have a agressive lead tone... and take pedals well.
The kind of tone we can find on those modded Marshall's Dave Friedman use to do.
The BE is too expensive, the Pink Taco have little options and little power, the Small Box it is also above what I'm willing to spend... So I've started to look for the Marshall Reissue series and the Runt.
Ceriatone (as other clones) seems to make good amps also but are company's with less information/owners feedback, no resellers and mostly overseas.

If you are looking for opinions based specifically on the 2 amps you mentioned, I would get the uno.

I was not jazzed about them at launch and honestly most clips left me underwhelmed. Played on again recently when I got my Schecter KM-7 as it was packed so poorly I get the need to go to GC and make sure the guitar auctioned properly. I used the Runt 50 and DS112 and was pretty darned impressed. I do NOT use a ton of high gain even when playing death metal type stuff so there's that.

I got this on iPhone just in case the guitar had issues. Just random wankery but it's raw Runt 50

 

[born_hard]

true vintage rock/hard rock tone but keeping in mind something more heavy if needed

A true vintage rock/hard rock tone is in the camp of a Plexi style amp. And if you want more hair, beef or gain you still can boost the shit out of the amp.
Check out the Metropoulos Metroplex. It has different shades of the Plexi sound and a built in boost with dedicated Volume , Bass, Treble and Master control.
Its sticky, raw, aggressive and more heavy then a regular Plexi, as heavy as a Alexi can get.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH5irW68YxY

If its too expensive, you still can look out for a similar amp like the Marshall 1959HW which is a great amp in my opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9ATc3-UxqA

The DSL is not bad either, or the good old JCM800.

You know, if you want a vintage rock sound, you are in the Marshall camp, don't look elsewhere. The Friedman amps are very good , too, but a touch more modern, more bass heavy and the texture of the mids is different. Which is not bad at all. Also don't forget that sound is important, but the feel under YOUR fingers is important too. If its feel good, if the amp resonates with you, if its responsive, fast or slow attack, you know what I mean...

 

[Deanmachine]

Marshall Jmp 50 watt used boost that thing ..or a used Diezel Einstien those cover allot of bases

 

[Lau4]

The Runt WILL NOT get you there, period. It is NOT high gain. I had one, changed the tubes to KT77's, and boosted it with several boosts. I was thoroughly disappointed. It is NOT your aggressive, typical BE tone. It's refined, smooth, and polite. Even boosted it's not aggressive.

If you don't like the Marshall suggestions, I don't know what to tell you. The DSL is more aggressive in every way, and more vintage sounding than a TSL, (I hated that amp).

I'd look at a Laney - specifically a GH50L. British, aggressive, responsive, and, IMO, shits on the Runt for a third of the price.

The Runt is a great sounding amp, but you'll make the same mistake I did - spend too much trying to make it something it is not, nor meant to be. Classic rock, sure.. AC/DC crunch, yes, 80's rock, sure, but, even boosted, that's as heavy as it'll get, and will leave you with the thoughts that "it's missing something".

I'm willing to bet, Dave beefs up the Runt in the near future. If he ups the gain and makes it more aggressive, I'm in. My complaints aren't the minority, several others have been down this road as well.

An EVH EL34 will get you there as well.

Let me explain it again...
I dont want an Hi-gain amp per se; I have a Dual Rectifier for that!
I want an amp with gnarly mids that cut through a mix like a knive and have an agressive lead tone.
A true vintage tone but with muscle and power.
A Gary Moore tone (live Montreaux 2010) or even a Bonamassa would do the trick. And yes I am aware that a live pro rig involves some other aspects besides only guitar/pedals/amps/cabs. This are only references.
And, as I play small gigs most of the year, my preference would be 50w.

 

[JerEvil]

The Runt WILL NOT get you there, period. It is NOT high gain. I had one, changed the tubes to KT77's, and boosted it with several boosts. I was thoroughly disappointed. It is NOT your aggressive, typical BE tone. It's refined, smooth, and polite. Even boosted it's not aggressive.

If you don't like the Marshall suggestions, I don't know what to tell you. The DSL is more aggressive in every way, and more vintage sounding than a TSL, (I hated that amp).

I'd look at a Laney - specifically a GH50L. British, aggressive, responsive, and, IMO, shits on the Runt for a third of the price.

The Runt is a great sounding amp, but you'll make the same mistake I did - spend too much trying to make it something it is not, nor meant to be. Classic rock, sure.. AC/DC crunch, yes, 80's rock, sure, but, even boosted, that's as heavy as it'll get, and will leave you with the thoughts that "it's missing something".

I'm willing to bet, Dave beefs up the Runt in the near future. If he ups the gain and makes it more aggressive, I'm in. My complaints aren't the minority, several others have been down this road as well.

An EVH EL34 will get you there as well.

Let me explain it again...
I dont want an Hi-gain amp per se; I have a Dual Rectifier for that!
I want an amp with gnarly mids that cut through a mix like a knive and have an agressive lead tone.
A true vintage tone but with muscle and power.
A Gary Moore tone (live Montreaux 2010) or even a Bonamassa would do the trick. And yes I am aware that a live pro rig involves some other aspects besides only guitar/pedals/amps/cabs. This are only references.
And, as I play small gigs most of the year, my preference would be 50w.

Man I'd grab the Runt. I don't think you'd be disappointed.

 

[napalmdeath]

The Runt WILL NOT get you there, period. It is NOT high gain. I had one, changed the tubes to KT77's, and boosted it with several boosts. I was thoroughly disappointed. It is NOT your aggressive, typical BE tone. It's refined, smooth, and polite. Even boosted it's not aggressive.

If you don't like the Marshall suggestions, I don't know what to tell you. The DSL is more aggressive in every way, and more vintage sounding than a TSL, (I hated that amp).

I'd look at a Laney - specifically a GH50L. British, aggressive, responsive, and, IMO, shits on the Runt for a third of the price.

The Runt is a great sounding amp, but you'll make the same mistake I did - spend too much trying to make it something it is not, nor meant to be. Classic rock, sure.. AC/DC crunch, yes, 80's rock, sure, but, even boosted, that's as heavy as it'll get, and will leave you with the thoughts that "it's missing something".

I'm willing to bet, Dave beefs up the Runt in the near future. If he ups the gain and makes it more aggressive, I'm in. My complaints aren't the minority, several others have been down this road as well.

An EVH EL34 will get you there as well.

Let me explain it again...
I dont want an Hi-gain amp per se; I have a Dual Rectifier for that!
I want an amp with gnarly mids that cut through a mix like a knive and have an agressive lead tone.
A true vintage tone but with muscle and power.
A Gary Moore tone (live Montreaux 2010) or even a Bonamassa would do the trick. And yes I am aware that a live pro rig involves some other aspects besides only guitar/pedals/amps/cabs. This are only references.
And, as I play small gigs most of the year, my preference would be 50w.

Gary Moore used a DSL. So does Bonanassa, (behind the fancy boutique amps on display, but not plugged in). Like I, and others suggested, DSL.