Gibson loses

[SkyhighRocks]

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-274997.html

 

[Jakem]

Nice.

 

[RockStarNick]

Gibson needs to stop being a baby, and focus on MAKING GOOD GUITARS. Their latest offerings at NAMM 09 were embarrasing. More robot guitars, more gimmicks. More ridiculously bad offerings for the general public, and more ridiculously expensive offerings for the custom shop.

Nobody wants a robot guitar. Nobody needs a midi-USB les paul. Here's an idea: make an american-made, affordable version of a 59 les paul. I know, its a CRAZY idea... anyway, i digress...

Do they not realize that the same kid that's picking up Rock Band, and his plastic "les paul" controller, is a potential future customer who might just drop $5K on a Custom Shop 59 Les Paul Reissue?

If I were Gibson, hell, I'd let Rock Band use the likeness of Gibson guitars for FREE. Product placement!!! It's free advertising to legions of potential future customers, who might be conviced to pick a Gibson over a Fender when and if they learn to play guitar for real.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Henry Juszkiewicz (yes, that's spelled correctly) is insane. He'll sue anybody for anything. Remember when he sued PRS because he thought the single cuts looked too similar to Les Pauls?

Recently, he's forced the company to produce something like %50 more guitars per day than previously. He should be shot for turning one of the best guitar companies around into basically the walmart of guitar makers.

 

[titanamps]

for a while, gibson was riding the name they had established. now, it looks like they are trying to run the name into the ground, just like they have the quality of their instruments.

all the while increasing prices.

pretty sad.

 

[titanamps]

well, the issue with PRS was with trademarks. gibson had trademarked the les paul shape, and that suit was gibson defending their mark. the suit revolved around "confusion in the marketplace", which gibson could not prove. PRS was able to prove that their single cut was different enough from the les paul that the trademark for it was irrelevant.

personally, i think the whole thing was based on PRS offering a significantly higher quality instrument for roughly the same money. gibson could have either improved their QC so that the value was equivalentm, or sue PRS so they couldn't make a guitar that was not only a viable alternative to the gibson, but a superior instrument in many respects.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

In the end it's all about "SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!"

 

[RockStarNick]

personally, i think the whole thing was based on PRS offering a significantly higher quality instrument for roughly the same money. gibson could have either improved their QC so that the value was equivalentm, or sue PRS so they couldn't make a guitar that was not only a viable alternative to the gibson, but a superior instrument in many respects.

Well, we definitely can see that they DIDNT go with the former, did they? Nope. They decided to make more satin-finished, USB equipped, ghetto ass robot guitars.



I'm glad I got my LP when the gettin' was good. I LOVE my LP, don't get me wrong... but I don't think I'd ever, ever get a new Gibson these days.

 

[thiswaythatway]

Patents are no good unless you try to enforce them. Apparently, that doesn't apply in this case, though! Sounds like it was a silly lawsuit.

But I was for Gibson when they sued PRS for their Les Paul copy. Personally, I don't think anyone should be able to use the other makers body shapes (Strat, Tele, Les Paul, Flying V, etc...) or headstock shapes (Gibson, Fender, etc...) But I don't really fully understand how all that stuff works.

Seems like you have to actually sue other companies when you think they use a design you patented to try and enforce the patent. If you don't, I guess it's considered not as enforceable or something?

I dunno...

Gibson's suit against PRS was a joke. Paul Reed Smith said it best himself. " Look around when you go to NAMM, you see Les Paul shaped guitars in every other booth. Why are we not allowed to the party".

I saw it as Gibson trying to stop one of the biggest competitors from eating into their pie. Put it this way, if Gibson wasn't worried about PRS and thought their guitars were inferior, then you wouldn't see a law suit. If they were going to sue PRS then they would have to sue a dozen other companies because there's other guitars that are a lot more similar to a LP than a PRS SC.

 

[thiswaythatway]

personally, i think the whole thing was based on PRS offering a significantly higher quality instrument for roughly the same money. gibson could have either improved their QC so that the value was equivalentm, or sue PRS so they couldn't make a guitar that was not only a viable alternative to the gibson, but a superior instrument in many respects.

Well, we definitely can see that they DIDNT go with the former, did they? Nope. They decided to make more satin-finished, USB equipped, ghetto ass robot guitars.



I'm glad I got my LP when the gettin' was good. I LOVE my LP, don't get me wrong... but I don't think I'd ever, ever get a new Gibson these days.

I really have no idea what you guys are playing because in my local Guitar Center they have a bunch of GREAT Gibsons. The new Traditionals are great guitars.

 

[Variable]

Henry Juszkiewicz (yes, that's spelled correctly) is insane. He'll sue anybody for anything. Remember when he sued PRS because he thought the single cuts looked too similar to Les Pauls?

Recently, he's forced the company to produce something like %50 more guitars per day than previously. He should be shot for turning one of the best guitar companies around into basically the walmart of guitar makers.

Gibson's got a long way to go before they become Samick...

 

[Szar]

Gibson needs to stop being a baby, and focus on MAKING GOOD GUITARS. Their latest offerings at NAMM 09 were embarrasing. More robot guitars, more gimmicks. More ridiculously bad offerings for the general public, and more ridiculously expensive offerings for the custom shop.

Hell yes! I don't play Gibson unless I can find a good deal on one that is a really good one. Gibson's quality control is shit. Only good Gibson guitars I have found are the Les Paul and Explorer I have. (Explorer has wicked mojo.)

 

[thiswaythatway]

Gibson's suit against PRS was a joke. Paul Reed Smith said it best himself. " Look around when you go to NAMM, you see Les Paul shaped guitars in every other booth. Why are we not allowed to the party".

I saw it as Gibson trying to stop one of the biggest competitors from eating into their pie. Put it this way, if Gibson wasn't worried about PRS and thought their guitars were inferior, then you wouldn't see a law suit. If they were going to sue PRS then they would have to sue a dozen other companies because there's other guitars that are a lot more similar to a LP than a PRS SC.

But Fender would sue Rondo Music for making SX guitars if they had a strat headstock shape, right? That's not about trying to stop one of the bigger competitors from eating into their pie.

As I said, I don't think these companies should be able to copy body and headstock shapes off each other. Just my opinion. I'm not THAT concerned, though.

Remember that Gibson's main arguement is that they claimed PRS was trying to deceive buyers into thinking that the PRS SC was a Gibson. And Gibson actually claimed that if you saw a PRS SC being used on stage that it would make people think that it was a Gibson.

They had a flawed game plan going into the lawsuit and they just embarrassed themselves. The suit wasn't actually about PRS copying the body shape.

 

[Variable]

Patents are no good unless you try to enforce them. Apparently, that doesn't apply in this case, though! Sounds like it was a silly lawsuit.

But I was for Gibson when they sued PRS for their Les Paul copy. Personally, I don't think anyone should be able to use the other makers body shapes (Strat, Tele, Les Paul, Flying V, etc...) or headstock shapes (Gibson, Fender, etc...) But I don't really fully understand how all that stuff works.

Seems like you have to actually sue other companies when you think they use a design you patented to try and enforce the patent. If you don't, I guess it's considered not as enforceable or something?

I dunno...

I'm all for manufacturers using other manufacturer's body shapes, as long as they're making it clear on the headstock who made the guitar. If it wasn't for so many companies copying the basic body shapes, we would have no competition in the guitar market. I mean, there are only so many ways you can route that wood for an electric guitar. A lot of a Super Strat's body style is about functionality as well as form. Same with the Les Paul body style. If we just had Fender and Gibson because they'd sued everyone out of existence... well, it would be a very boring time to play electric guitar.

I mean, if I take a Dodge and a Chevy, give them the same horsepower, a similar functionally aerodynamic shape, same features, etc... should one sue the other? The Lancer Evo and Imprezza WRX Sti (before the ghey stationwagon crap) were both extremely similar cars. Hell, they were built to compete with one another. But just because they look similar and have similar specs doesn't mean they perform similarly.

 

[Digital Jams]

Hey Thump....you have any labels on those K-Lines you owned?

Fender is going after everyone right now, just ask John Suhr much much time he has invested with them. Fender saw that people were paying big money for guitars like theirs and hell they are HUGE profit makers as not much more time is involved to make a $4000 plain old strat for Fender.

Gibson is scared shitless of PRS and that is fact. Hamer won't get any closer because Gibson would try and stop them quick for the same reasons, they would have to really knuckle down and build each guitar great. Of course Hamer now has Fender money to fight those board men non-musicians

 

[Copperhead]

I mean, if I take a Dodge and a Chevy, give them the same horsepower, a similar functionally aerodynamic shape, same features, etc... should one sue the other? The Lancer Evo and Imprezza WRX Sti (before the ghey stationwagon crap) were both extremely similar cars. Hell, they were built to compete with one another. But just because they look similar and have similar specs doesn't mean they perform similarly.

Seriously, you don't see Lexus going after Hyundai for knocking off their taillights, or Mercedes likewise for copping their grill and headlights....cuz it's a freakin' Hyundai for cryin' out loud.
And as far as GMW or USACG getting busted for Strat heads.... while other companies are allowed to produce POS necks with the Strat head, Fender needs to decide exactly which side of the fence they're on. You can no longer buy parts from Fender, they bought Kaman and are distributing all parts through them, and are outsourcing many items. For instance, you can get the vintage tuners WITHOUT the F stamped on them made by Gotoh, from Warmoth for around $30.00, or you can order from your Fender dealer, who places the order through Kaman the exact same Gotoh tuners with an F stamp...(I'm not sure of the exact pricing but I will find out from my Fender guy today)

EDIT: Just checked with the Fender dealer, they just got some in......They are Fender packaged, Gotohs, INDENTICAL to what's on the Warmoth site... get this NO F STAMP!!!! Apparently, you can't get the F stamped ones anymore. Fender Retail Price :$59.00. DEALER COST: $30.00
I told him he may as well order them from Warmoth!!!!

So it seems to me Fender is whoring on both sides of the street, selling through their own avenues as well as making their suppliers pay a licensing fee to sell direct. If you are a manufacturer of parts for Fender, you have no choice, it's like if you want the contract to produce the parts, you are also gonna have to pay a licensing fee to make anything else similar to our stuff or we're going to sue you, and obviously we will pull the supply contract as well. It's a deal you can't refuse.
I hope the next thread like this is titled "Fender Loses"

 

[AmpliFIRE]

Hey Thump....you have any labels on those K-Lines you owned?

K-Line's are made with Fender licensed necks and bodies...