Got to try the Axe FX II today

[yngzaklynch]

went over to bstaley's pad and played through his rig. We messed with a lot of different amps and a few effects. Believe the hype!!! This thing is nothing short of amazing. The number of tones at your fingertips is mind boggeling. I was way impressed with the quality of tone and the vast array of sounds. At no point did I feel like I wasn't playing through a tube amp. Killer stuff!

 

[Ventura]

went over to bstaley's pad and played through his rig. We messed with a lot of different amps and a few effects. Believe the hype!!! This thing is nothing short of amazing. The number of tones at your fingertips is mind boggeling. I was way impressed with the quality of tone and the vast array of sounds. At no point did I feel like I wasn't playing through a tube amp. Killer stuff!

Was it going through a conventional cab or was it going through an FRFR setup?

Cool update - so you feel it's all that and a bag o' chips eh?

 

[Mailman1971]

Awesome Jim! I always....ALWAYS wanted to pull the trigger on one. Never had a chance to play one though.
When I had the $$$.....some Killer amp would pop up on the Radar and I would buy it.

 

[Orbis_Mortis]

Congrats!!! I want one bad but I have to stick to my Eleven Rack until I finish school

 

[marshallmel]

I've gotta hook up with you guys one of these days.

 

[bstaley]

Thanks for checking it out and thanks for bringing the modded 5150 over. That amp kills.

My Axe II was going through a VHT 2-90-2 poweramp and a Mesa Recto cabinet.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

I loved the axe with my 2/90/2 , I'm sure through a mesa cab that was pretty rocking.

I just swapped out my 2/90/2 for a 2150, didn't want to like it given the impracticality but it kills the 2/90/2 for me and I loved that amp.

The full size transformers just have more total bandwidth, and respond differently.

Much larger sounding than the 2/90/2 and feels better, more responsive.

The key to the axe for me right now is power amp sims off into a tube poweramp and guitar voiced speakers. In essence a digital preamp feeding a real guitar poweramp and cabinet/speakers.

There are some relationships not yet modeled that I'm not sure could be, but well see. For now the relationship between tube poweramp and speaker must exist for real sounding sounds.

The IRS available right now are also not suited in any way for live playing. They are unintentionally geared toward direct recording which is fine but guys are using them the wrong way and reporting good results which are impossible.

The same can be said for the insanely hyped response of stacking the poweramp section of the modeler onto a tube power section that's not FRFR. .

Cabinet sims on through real poweramp, again horrible unnatural sounds reported as positive, impossible.

When compared to the real amps spectrally in every case the results are not even similar

I love my axe fx and it will get even better very soon. Cliff will keep refining the science and I appreciate that, it's not a hindrance to me I'm along for the ride.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

Would loved to have heard you playing through that setup Jim.

I've had positive experiences running lower level modelers through traditional tube power amp/4x12 guitar cab configurations bet it sounded fantastic.

 

[GITTarzann]

The key to the axe for me right now is power amp sims off into a tube poweramp and guitar voiced speakers. In essence a digital preamp feeding a real guitar poweramp and cabinet/speakers.

There are some relationships not yet modeled that I'm not sure could be, but well see. For now the relationship between tube poweramp and speaker must exist for real sounding sounds.

The IRS available right now are also not suited in any way for live playing. They are unintentionally geared toward direct recording which is fine but guys are using them the wrong way and reporting good results which are impossible.

The same can be said for the insanely hyped response of stacking the poweramp section of the modeler onto a tube power section that's not FRFR. .

Cabinet sims on through real poweramp, again horrible unnatural sounds reported as positive, impossible.

When compared to the real amps spectrally in every case the results are not even similar

I love my axe fx and it will get even better very soon. Cliff will keep refining the science and I appreciate that, it's not a hindrance to me I'm along for the ride.

Just my .03 cents, and I know you prefaced with "The key to the axe for me right now is..."

But, my experience is not soooo black and white as yours is. I am no Fractal fanboi but I am happy with the unit. I have played frfr, PA into 4X12's, both simultaneously, and have seen a few bands live playing AX-FX's and for the most part...I have loved my sound and the bands I have seen sounded great....I couldn't tell the tone generator was a modeler.

I don't think it is as good as the absolute best tones I have got from some of my tube amps, and may never be all the way there, but it is pretty darn good!

Not trying to pick an argument...just sayin'

 

[Ventura]

I'm excited about the FRFR notion. To date, the A2 hasn't impressed me but I am almost certain most of this is driver error.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

The key to the axe for me right now is power amp sims off into a tube poweramp and guitar voiced speakers. In essence a digital preamp feeding a real guitar poweramp and cabinet/speakers.

There are some relationships not yet modeled that I'm not sure could be, but well see. For now the relationship between tube poweramp and speaker must exist for real sounding sounds.

The IRS available right now are also not suited in any way for live playing. They are unintentionally geared toward direct recording which is fine but guys are using them the wrong way and reporting good results which are impossible.

The same can be said for the insanely hyped response of stacking the poweramp section of the modeler onto a tube power section that's not FRFR. .

Cabinet sims on through real poweramp, again horrible unnatural sounds reported as positive, impossible.

When compared to the real amps spectrally in every case the results are not even similar

I love my axe fx and it will get even better very soon. Cliff will keep refining the science and I appreciate that, it's not a hindrance to me I'm along for the ride.

Just my .03 cents, and I know you prefaced with "The key to the axe for me right now is..."

But, my experience is not soooo black and white as yours is. I am no Fractal fanboi but I am happy with the unit. I have played frfr, PA into 4X12's, both simultaneously, and have seen a few bands live playing AX-FX's and for the most part...I have loved my sound and the bands I have seen sounded great....I couldn't tell the tone generator was a modeler.

I don't think it is as good as the absolute best tones I have got from some of my tube amps, and may never be all the way there, but it is pretty darn good!

Not trying to pick an argument...just sayin'

That's what great about it whatever works for you

I am trying to achieve sounds that are exact to the amps I'm emulating so we shoot the amps and the axe and everything we can for spectral analysis , I should has said if accurate real amp sound are what your going for or something like that.

 

[Mizati20]

I'm excited about the FRFR notion. To date, the A2 hasn't impressed me but I am almost certain most of this is driver error.

Sorry Mo... I know I don't know you and all but I know you have a damn good ear for tone... it's not driver error, you are just still in denial mode that it's not "there" yet... just keeping' it real with ya

....really excited to hear how you like the CLRs though... I played FRFR with my Axe-II and absolutely hated it... I mean it was cool for monitor in a live situation but it was never ever the same as a fire breathing 4x12... no matter what I did...

 

[Ventura]

I'm excited about the FRFR notion. To date, the A2 hasn't impressed me but I am almost certain most of this is driver error.

Sorry Mo... I know I don't know you and all but I know you have a damn good ear for tone... it's not driver error, you are just still in denial mode that it's not "there" yet... just keeping' it real with ya

....really excited to hear how you like the CLRs though... I played FRFR with my Axe-II and absolutely hated it... I mean it was cool for monitor in a live situation but it was never ever the same as a fire breathing 4x12... no matter what I did...

I really appreciate this.

I'll go out here and say this, I am 100% committed to making this thing work the way I've seen many musicians apparently make it "work" for them. I was definitely blown away with the tones Steph managed to get on the latest Deftones CD. This was a deciding factor for me. I've done the DI thing, and honestly, sure, it's great, but it's very sterile (yes, I do have the usual suspects for sonic enhancement engaged!). The poweramp + cab was "okay", but if I'm going to go that route, why not just ditch the Axe for a couple choice heads and I'm back to square? But if this CLR situation doesn't get me to where I want it to go? I'm going to sell this unit off and maybe wait till the A3 or whatever comes out. It's a bit of a frustration for me - but I'm eager to try it out and really make it work.

After a few hours on my Hagen and 20thA yesterday, I swear, the Axe is going to have to live up to all the praise.

 

[Shark Diver]

I don't even see the point of running a digital pre into a power amp/speakers. For much less you could have a great tube pre and great fx unit. And if you need 20 different amps at a gig, then it still doesn't make sense that all those amp sims would work to their potential with a fixed speaker and tube set. To me they only make sense if they work FRFR for you. But that's me.

I still really want to try a II but it wold definitely have to be FRFR to make it worth $2,500 - to me

 

[eraserhead101]

I'm a fan of the axe-fx as well best all around gear i have ever owned. I use it with my friedman modded marshall for effects only.

 

[IntenseJim]

I don't even see the point of running a digital pre into a power amp/speakers. For much less you could have a great tube pre and great fx unit. And if you need 20 different amps at a gig, then it still doesn't make sense that all those amp sims would work to their potential with a fixed speaker and tube set. To me they only make sense if they work FRFR for you. But that's me.

I still really want to try a II but it wold definitely have to be FRFR to make it worth $2,500 - to me

I hear you but if you already have a tube power amp and guitar cabs and don't want to invest in FRFR speakers and neutral digital or SS power amp, then getting the Axe can make sense...if you need/want such a product.

But that's not me.

 

[Shark Diver]

I don't even see the point of running a digital pre into a power amp/speakers. For much less you could have a great tube pre and great fx unit. And if you need 20 different amps at a gig, then it still doesn't make sense that all those amp sims would work to their potential with a fixed speaker and tube set. To me they only make sense if they work FRFR for you. But that's me.

I still really want to try a II but it wold definitely have to be FRFR to make it worth $2,500 - to me

I hear you but if you already have a tube power amp and guitar cabs and don't want to invest in FRFR speakers and neutral digital or SS power amp, then getting the Axe can make sense...if you need/want such a product.

But that's not me.

I hear ya, but then buy a great pre matched to your amp/cab and you'll probably be happier. You just lose so much of what an Axe can do if you cut out 1/3 of the sims (power amp/ speakers / mics ). And if you run the amp sims with a fixed power amp and speaker, that you wouldn't use with the real amp, then it won't sound right. imo

Most of us dial everything in to the same general sounds we like. So, the advantage of things like the Axe are to not have to deal with so much gear and mic'ing.If you're going to add 1/2 that back in, then I don't get it at the price point.

 

[mentoneman]

when i had the ultra, i ran one side into a frfr EV wedge, and one side into a tech 21 power engine
the ev gave me all the resolution the ultra had, and the tech 21 gave me the speaker thump of a normal guitar cab

and both had xlr ins and out to pass trough to the house without need for mics if desired.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

I don't even see the point of running a digital pre into a power amp/speakers. For much less you could have a great tube pre and great fx unit.


I don't let the cost sway my tonal decisions so that wasn't a factor in this case for me, I also find the preamp of the axe to meet any tube preamp I've put it up against in frequency response..

And if you need 20 different amps at a gig, then it still doesn't make sense that all those amp sims would work to their potential with a fixed speaker and tube set.

I do use a lot of amp sims, also used to carry three full size amp heads for FRFR. This was a major downsize for me. From a pickup truck to a yugo. I previously had 8 high gain amp heads.

Haven't you ever tried your tube preamps with different poweramps? The mix/match is part of the fun, I use to hook two amp heads in tandem with their opposing power amps hooked up just to hear new sounds. Also, I went from 8 sounds to what 105 right now and growing, my amp gas is cured, when I get tired of a sound I just dial in a new one, always fresh and I've used some amp sims I never would have tried as real amps,ear opening.

For me the preamps entirely change the character of any sound I dial up enough for my uses. I've actually consider buying all the tube power amps available and making a midi switching matrix to use them all, then again I'm really happy with one six space rack, don't really want to haul a ton of gear again. Lately in the interest of poweramp options I'm thinking of two stereo power amps with different tubes in each channel, and some creative switching. El34, 6l6, kt90,kt120.

I'm not looking for exact copies in terms of pre AND power amp sounds. just preamps. I've compared the preamps of the real amps spectrally to the preamp responses of the axe and with TM they could be so close the difference was negligible, once Fw 10 gets here and the dials are exact to the real amps it should get even easier..


Depends of what you find the maximum potential, the axe for me right now is perfect as a preamp, not so much direct or frfr. I see it reaching its full potential this way as IMO the axe fx cant do direct or FRFR as well yet so i wont use it that way.


To me they only make sense if they work FRFR for you. But that's me.

There is no current feedback or unrelated harmonic content from said feedback, the reactive speaker load is essential to the tube guitar amp sounds. not even sure if this stuff can be modeled. The response of a modeled PA and speaker is still very different than the real thing.

There are not even true IRS avaialble for FRFR. It is scientifically impossible to use what is currently available and have normal in the room sounds, to touch on it quickly , the IRS have all been shot with color inducing gear in studios. These IRS are meant for direct recording. You dial up an IR that includes the power amp cabinet, speaker, mic, and mic preamp as a complete system. Great sounds like a nicely miced studio track. The problem is the IRs have all been shot in studios, the room is always included in the IR no matter what any tells you about it, research the science. Think of the environment as a tiny built in reverb. Now play that sound through an FRFR system and what you have is a guitar sound with a room sound baked in playing out of speakers into you guessed it, a room. There is no wonder why guys all complain about the direct in the room feeling being not quite right. You double up on the room that way, two different environments at once fighting, the phasing and other sonic issues are a nightmare.

I'm working on some new IR solutions with an acoustician friend of mine. Close to the vest for now.

Again the beauty of the variability of the device is it can work in so many different ways for so many tastes.

I still really want to try a II but it wold definitely have to be FRFR to make it worth $2,500 - to me

I spent $2200 on the axe but sold $24,000 worth of amps. to me, for my uses it was a steal.

 

[yngzaklynch]

Sorry for not responding guys. We lost internet service lastnight. Just came back on today. Anyways... Bill gave you guys the setup. It really is incredible. We tweeked a Bogner XTC 20th Anni Red sim that was soooooooo nice sounding and very fun to play through. There are so many ways to tweek/mod a given amp sim it's unreal.