Greenback Reissues vs. Scumback BM75

[fearhk213]

For those who have played both Greenback Reissues and Scumback BlackBack BM75's, how would you compare/contrast them? Which did you like better, and why?

Thanks,
Frank

 

[FourT6and2]

My Bogner 4x12 came with Greenback Reissues. They sound like Greenbacks! Woody. Easily break up. The sound of classic rock and good for metal too (as long as you keep the volume down). The speakers have a loose low end. But the sound is musical and pleasant. No fizz. Not scooped. Just a great speaker for the most part.

I have a BM75. But haven't really used it much. Initial thoughts were that it's like a Greenback but a bit more harsh. Exaggerated upper mids and high-end. Handles low-end better (but I have the 65 watt version). Scumback uses the word "aggressive" but I just call it grating. Maybe it needs to be broken in more, I don't know.

 

[EVHpickdust]

The BM75 are more like the Celestion Blackbacks of old. I think I like the M75s better. M75s are a clone of the Greenbacks.

 

[FourT6and2]

The BM75 are more like the Celestion Blackbacks of old. I think I like the M75s better. M75s are a clone of the Greenbacks.

Blackbacks are Greenbacks. Just a different color magnet cover. Maybe there's a difference with the cones or something. But for all intents and purposes, they are the same speaker. The sonic difference of the BM75, in my opinion, is exaggerated from the true differences between the original Celestion versions. But that's just my opinion. I could be mistaken.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

Had both at the same time in identical cabs. Sold the BM-75's and kept the Chinese GB's.......much more musical to my ears. BM-75's sounded bloated and grainy at the same time. My other guitar player felt the same way.

 

[FourT6and2]

Had both at the same time in identical cabs. Sold the BM-75's and kept the Chinese GB's.......much more musical to my ears. BM-75's sounded bloated and grainy at the same time. My other guitar player felt the same way.

Yeah grainy is a good word to describe them.

 

[fearhk213]

Grating, grainy, & bloated definitely don't sound like my cup of tea. Were these the FBI ones too?

 

[bmf5150]

I have original pre rola greenbacks and I really like the Reis greenbacks..they don't sound exactly the same but they are close and if the Reis had 40 years of playing they very well might..I like Reis way better than the heritage

 

[Meathead]

I have original pre rola greenbacks and I really like the Reis greenbacks..they don't sound exactly the same but they are close and if the Reis had 40 years of playing they very well might..I like Reis way better than the heritage

Me to, the Heritage is not very warm sounding.

 

[EVHpickdust]

The BM75 are more like the Celestion Blackbacks of old. I think I like the M75s better. M75s are a clone of the Greenbacks.

Blackbacks are Greenbacks. Just a different color magnet cover. Maybe there's a difference with the cones or something. But for all intents and purposes, they are the same speaker. The sonic difference of the BM75, in my opinion, is exaggerated from the true differences between the original Celestion versions. But that's just my opinion. I could be mistaken.

If I am not mistaken they came as either 55Hz or 75Hz and were either the Pulsonic cones or Kurt Mueller cones.

 

[AndyK]

Check out George Metropoulos' Greenback shootout video - awesome job comparing all the G12Ms. I wound up liking the Chinese Celestions the best!

 

[FourT6and2]

The BM75 are more like the Celestion Blackbacks of old. I think I like the M75s better. M75s are a clone of the Greenbacks.

Blackbacks are Greenbacks. Just a different color magnet cover. Maybe there's a difference with the cones or something. But for all intents and purposes, they are the same speaker. The sonic difference of the BM75, in my opinion, is exaggerated from the true differences between the original Celestion versions. But that's just my opinion. I could be mistaken.

If I am not mistaken they came as either 55Hz or 75Hz and were either the Pulsonic cones or Kurt Mueller cones.

Yes, both G12M-25 watt "Greenbacks" and "Blackbacks" came in 55Hz and 75Hz versions. And at one point with the Pulsonic or Mueller cones. But my contention is that 55Hz vs 55Hz or 75Hz vs 75Hz versions of each aren't that different from one another. And the BM75 speakers from Scumback (to me) highly exaggerate the true difference between the original Celestions. To me, the real ones aren't that different—sonically—from one another. But the M75 vs the BM75 was a huge difference to my ears. But I've only compared one set of original Greenbacks with Blackbacks and one set of M75s with BM75s. So maybe there would be more of a difference with a larger sample size.

 

[FourT6and2]

Grating, grainy, & bloated definitely don't sound like my cup of tea. Were these the FBI ones too?

My BM75 was broken in by Scumback.

 

[FourT6and2]

Check out George Metropoulos' Greenback shootout video - awesome job comparing all the G12Ms. I wound up liking the Chinese Celestions the best!

Reissues sounded the best to me!

OP, listen to this clip. Notice how grainy the Scumback sounds? The BM75 is even more grainy to my ears.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I play a mix of RI and Weber Legacy which for all intensive purposes, is like an M75. I like them equally from the close mic'ing I have played with but for all around, the RI once broken in a bit gets rid of some of the sharper highs and settles in nicely. It's a great all around speaker and you know what you are getting with it.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Not disputing anyone's opinion about what they hear on the BlackBack tones, but they had quite a few variations of those speakers. Yes, they had much different cones than the 68-72 Greenbacks, too. Those 68-72 models used the Pulsonic cones, BlackBacks had 1777 75 hz or 444 55hz Kurt Mueller cones. There's a pretty big difference between them. The BlackBacks I had, plus the pair I borrowed from a client who had dozens sounded just like the BM75. Due to how much more upper mids and treble those speakers have, EQ adjustments and preamp tubes need to be dialed in for them to sound their best. Setting for a regular Greenback, pre rola Greenback, M75, or M75-PVC will be different.

And the Metro Greenback YT video you're referencing has been widely discounted as flawed (yes I told George myself). If you listen to the ASW Crossroads in that clip, you'll hear it sounds way muffled and with low output. I've heard them in person, and they sound way better than in that video. If you check on the TGP thread regarding that shootout, even Pete Thorn agreed with me that the ASW Crossroads sound way better in person than in that video. Obviously that brings the whole recording into question based on that alone. Let's be real, why would I stick up for a competitor if it was accurate?

I know George used a mic set back about 3-4 feet from the cabs when he recorded them. That leaves a pretty wide margin of error for correctly recording so many different speakers, especially considering that if you're off just 1/2-1" they can miss the right spot for recording.

 

[FourT6and2]

Not disputing anyone's opinion about what they hear on the BlackBack tones, but they had quite a few variations of those speakers. Yes, they had much different cones than the 68-72 Greenbacks, too. Those 68-72 models used the Pulsonic cones, BlackBacks had 1777 75 hz or 444 55hz Kurt Mueller cones. There's a pretty big difference between them. The BlackBacks I had, plus the pair I borrowed from a client who had dozens sounded just like the BM75. Due to how much more upper mids and treble those speakers have, EQ adjustments and preamp tubes need to be dialed in for them to sound their best. Setting for a regular Greenback, pre rola Greenback, M75, or M75-PVC will be different.

And the Metro Greenback YT video you're referencing has been widely discounted as flawed (yes I told George myself). If you listen to the ASW Crossroads in that clip, you'll hear it sounds way muffled and with low output. I've heard them in person, and they sound way better than in that video. If you check on the TGP thread regarding that shootout, even Pete Thorn agreed with me that the ASW Crossroads sound way better in person than in that video. Obviously that brings the whole recording into question based on that alone. Let's be real, why would I stick up for a competitor if it was accurate?

I know George used a mic set back about 3-4 feet from the cabs when he recorded them. That leaves a pretty wide margin of error for correctly recording so many different speakers, especially considering that if you're off just 1/2-1" they can miss the right spot for recording.

Interesting. Didn't know that about George's vid, thanks.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Interesting. Didn't know that about George's vid, thanks.

Yeah, when I heard it I was kind of shocked.

 

[Meathead]

I agree.
It is of no fault of George, what he tried to do was very cool, but it is very hard to make a speaker demonstration testing different types.
It seemed like the mic was in a good place for some speakers and not for others. I'm not sure how an audio clip can give a true comparison. Obviously, you have to move the microphone to the sweet spot of each speaker...then if you are moving the mic around looking for sweet spots, that becomes subjective.