Ground loops suck, need help !

[screamindemon]

Ok so I'm trying to run my Digi 1101 in the 4 cable mode to my 5150 III and have a horrible ground loop hum.
I have tried lifting the ground on the send and return cables in the loop and on the input of the amp, no help hum is still there.

So i get a Nady hum eliminator and plug it in tonight one channel in line with the send and one channel inline with return of the loop,well guess what no hum.

I'm like great I fixed it, wrong now I have almost no guitar signal at all, barely audible !

What the fuck !

Anyone else have this problem and find a cure !

 

[steve_k]

4CM.....the guitarists nightmare! The reason for your signal loss is that those little black boxes attenuate the signal by 20dB. Your line level input from/to the loop send/return is basically gone. If the amp has send/return control or if the Digibox does, you will need to mess with those levels. You should be plugged into the same power source for starters though. Then go from there. That stuff can be a pain in the ass.

 

[Blix]

Drop 4CM and just keep it in the loop IMO, and you'll avoid your signal going through AD/DA conversion twice.

 

[screamindemon]

Thanks for the reply Guys !

Yeah I agree, I give up on the 4 cable deal. It's not worth the hassle !

 

[Gainfreak]

I did some research for you and most people don't recommend screwing around with the cables.

My understanding is that there can only be one source that is grounded. You can either pick your amp to be the main ground or the GSP but if both are gounded, you will get the hum.

Once you decide which one is to be the main ground you have to lift the ground on the other unit. Id most definitely pick the amp to be the one that is grounded.

Id ditch your cables and go back to shielded ones and try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YM1iwC6vhg

You can go ahead and throw in the towel and use a pedal booster and it will sound KILLER but Ive gotten my GSP to work with ZERO hum, so I know it can be done. I also know what a PITA ground loops can be lol. It's the reason why I stopped using my GCX, but there is always a solution! IMHO it IS worth the hassle once you get it working

I~R~

 

[Schaf]

I did some research for you and most people don't recommend screwing around with the cables.

My understanding is that there can only be one source that is grounded. You can either pick your amp to be the main ground or the GSP but if both are gounded, you will get the hum.

Once you decide which one is to be the main ground you have to lift the ground on the other unit. Id most definitely pick the amp to be the one that is grounded.

Id ditch your cables and go back to shielded ones and try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YM1iwC6vhg

You can go ahead and throw in the towel and use a pedal booster and it will sound KILLER but Ive gotten my GSP to work with ZERO hum, so I know it can be done. I also know what a PITA ground loops can be lol. It's the reason why I stopped using my GCX, but there is always a solution! IMHO it IS worth the hassle once you get it working

I~R~

I have the RP1000. I had the same problem running 4CM. And for some of us running clean and running into the front of the amp is defeating the purpose because of the switching on those units. I lifted every single ground. Tried both the lifts on the unit. Even on my amp for a couple gigs, but I was wireless so it really didn't matter. Still buzzed like a mother. Fought with it for like 2 months.

Anyway, you can make a little box to correct this if you don't want to mess with your cables. Do a search in the digital modeler section of TGP. And, I know that Gainfreak said most don't recommend messing with the cables, but I don't know how it could be any worse than a regular ground lift What I ended up doing which is basically the same thing the box does which is just take your cables that go into loop, uncrimping the the little clamp on the jack from around the metal braided part of the cable. And then I just put electrical tape around it and recrimp the jack. In essence breaking the loop. Works perfectly now and it's way more quiet. Takes about 10 minutes. When I get something else that doesn't need to break the ground into the loop, I'll just remove the tape and recrimp.

To my knowledge, there is really no danger in doing this. Maybe someone knows something I don't?

 

[Gainfreak]

I did some research for you and most people don't recommend screwing around with the cables.

My understanding is that there can only be one source that is grounded. You can either pick your amp to be the main ground or the GSP but if both are gounded, you will get the hum.

Once you decide which one is to be the main ground you have to lift the ground on the other unit. Id most definitely pick the amp to be the one that is grounded.

Id ditch your cables and go back to shielded ones and try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YM1iwC6vhg

You can go ahead and throw in the towel and use a pedal booster and it will sound KILLER but Ive gotten my GSP to work with ZERO hum, so I know it can be done. I also know what a PITA ground loops can be lol. It's the reason why I stopped using my GCX, but there is always a solution! IMHO it IS worth the hassle once you get it working

I~R~

I have the RP1000. I had the same problem running 4CM. And for some of us running clean and running into the front of the amp is defeating the purpose because of the switching on those units. I lifted every single ground. Tried both the lifts on the unit. Even on my amp for a couple gigs, but I was wireless so it really didn't matter. Still buzzed like a mother. Fought with it for like 2 months.

Anyway, you can make a little box to correct this if you don't want to mess with your cables. Do a search in the digital modeler section of TGP. And, I know that Gainfreak said most don't recommend messing with the cables, but I don't know how it could be any worse than a regular ground lift What I ended up doing which is basically the same thing the box does which is just take your cables that go into loop, uncrimping the the little clamp on the jack from around the metal braided part of the cable. And then I just put electrical tape around it and recrimp the jack. In essence breaking the loop. Works perfectly now and it's way more quiet. Takes about 10 minutes. When I get something else that doesn't need to break the ground into the loop, I'll just remove the tape and recrimp.

To my knowledge, there is really no danger in doing this. Maybe someone knows something I don't?

Very cool!!

My main message here is that there is always a solution.
I run my GSP1101 with the 4cm into my JVM210H without a single problem. The GSP does all the effects and switching on my amp and I have a few lead patches where I'm boosting the front end of the amp with a Digital Tube screamer. I have read that some guys have had problems with hum when using the GSP and a JVM but mine worked fine right out of the gate ! Now I'm starting to wonder why hahaha!

This is the reason why some guys do this for a living and why they keep information hush hush hahahaha!

 

[Schaf]

I did some research for you and most people don't recommend screwing around with the cables.

My understanding is that there can only be one source that is grounded. You can either pick your amp to be the main ground or the GSP but if both are gounded, you will get the hum.

Once you decide which one is to be the main ground you have to lift the ground on the other unit. Id most definitely pick the amp to be the one that is grounded.

Id ditch your cables and go back to shielded ones and try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YM1iwC6vhg

You can go ahead and throw in the towel and use a pedal booster and it will sound KILLER but Ive gotten my GSP to work with ZERO hum, so I know it can be done. I also know what a PITA ground loops can be lol. It's the reason why I stopped using my GCX, but there is always a solution! IMHO it IS worth the hassle once you get it working

I~R~

I have the RP1000. I had the same problem running 4CM. And for some of us running clean and running into the front of the amp is defeating the purpose because of the switching on those units. I lifted every single ground. Tried both the lifts on the unit. Even on my amp for a couple gigs, but I was wireless so it really didn't matter. Still buzzed like a mother. Fought with it for like 2 months.

Anyway, you can make a little box to correct this if you don't want to mess with your cables. Do a search in the digital modeler section of TGP. And, I know that Gainfreak said most don't recommend messing with the cables, but I don't know how it could be any worse than a regular ground lift What I ended up doing which is basically the same thing the box does which is just take your cables that go into loop, uncrimping the the little clamp on the jack from around the metal braided part of the cable. And then I just put electrical tape around it and recrimp the jack. In essence breaking the loop. Works perfectly now and it's way more quiet. Takes about 10 minutes. When I get something else that doesn't need to break the ground into the loop, I'll just remove the tape and recrimp.

To my knowledge, there is really no danger in doing this. Maybe someone knows something I don't?

Very cool!!

My main message here is that there is always a solution.
I run my GSP1101 with the 4cm into my JVM210H without a single problem. The GSP does all the effects and switching on my amp and I have a few lead patches where I'm boosting the front end of the amp with a Digital Tube screamer. I have read that some guys have had problems with hum when using the GSP and a JVM but mine worked fine right out of the gate ! Now I'm starting to wonder why hahaha!

This is the reason why some guys do this for a living and why they keep information hush hush hahahaha!

Dude, you're the one who convinced me to get the RP!!! I have a stock JCM800 2204 with a Metro loop installed. I hit the front with either a DS or TS model. It works great. Choruses and delays are pretty good too. It's really convenient because I sing alot too. I don't have to be fumbling aroung looking for the right pedal to push.

But I got the info off of the Marshall Forum. I was about ready to dump the box until I found the solution there. Here's the link http://jvmforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5610

 

[Gainfreak]

I did some research for you and most people don't recommend screwing around with the cables.

My understanding is that there can only be one source that is grounded. You can either pick your amp to be the main ground or the GSP but if both are gounded, you will get the hum.

Once you decide which one is to be the main ground you have to lift the ground on the other unit. Id most definitely pick the amp to be the one that is grounded.

Id ditch your cables and go back to shielded ones and try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YM1iwC6vhg

You can go ahead and throw in the towel and use a pedal booster and it will sound KILLER but Ive gotten my GSP to work with ZERO hum, so I know it can be done. I also know what a PITA ground loops can be lol. It's the reason why I stopped using my GCX, but there is always a solution! IMHO it IS worth the hassle once you get it working

I~R~

I have the RP1000. I had the same problem running 4CM. And for some of us running clean and running into the front of the amp is defeating the purpose because of the switching on those units. I lifted every single ground. Tried both the lifts on the unit. Even on my amp for a couple gigs, but I was wireless so it really didn't matter. Still buzzed like a mother. Fought with it for like 2 months.

Anyway, you can make a little box to correct this if you don't want to mess with your cables. Do a search in the digital modeler section of TGP. And, I know that Gainfreak said most don't recommend messing with the cables, but I don't know how it could be any worse than a regular ground lift What I ended up doing which is basically the same thing the box does which is just take your cables that go into loop, uncrimping the the little clamp on the jack from around the metal braided part of the cable. And then I just put electrical tape around it and recrimp the jack. In essence breaking the loop. Works perfectly now and it's way more quiet. Takes about 10 minutes. When I get something else that doesn't need to break the ground into the loop, I'll just remove the tape and recrimp.

To my knowledge, there is really no danger in doing this. Maybe someone knows something I don't?

Very cool!!

My main message here is that there is always a solution.
I run my GSP1101 with the 4cm into my JVM210H without a single problem. The GSP does all the effects and switching on my amp and I have a few lead patches where I'm boosting the front end of the amp with a Digital Tube screamer. I have read that some guys have had problems with hum when using the GSP and a JVM but mine worked fine right out of the gate ! Now I'm starting to wonder why hahaha!

This is the reason why some guys do this for a living and why they keep information hush hush hahahaha!

Dude, you're the one who convinced me to get the RP!!! I have a stock JCM800 2204 with a Metro loop installed. I hit the front with either a DS or TS model. It works great. Choruses and delays are pretty good too. It's really convenient because I sing alot too. I don't have to be fumbling aroung looking for the right pedal to push.

But I got the info off of the Marshall Forum. I was about ready to dump the box until I found the solution there. Here's the link http://jvmforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5610

The scary thing is now I'm starting to wonder if I do have a ground loop going on but I just don't hear it because I have the amp gated really hard hahahaha! I don't think so, but now I'm going to check

 

[screamindemon]

I have tried lifting the grounds on the audio cables and power cables and have had no luck !

Ralph I think your just running two Decimators on full tilt thats why you don't hear it !

Seriously thought when I was using alot of rack gear I was using a Decimator in the loop and i could kill the hum but my dynamics went to hell ! Felt like it was gateing my notes too much !

I now just use a Decimatro pedal in front of the amp, this way I can shut it off if I feel it is gating to much.

 

[Gainfreak]

I have tried lifting the grounds on the audio cables and power cables and have had no luck !

Ralph I think your just running two Decimators on full tilt thats why you don't hear it !

Seriously thought when I was using alot of rack gear I was using a Decimator in the loop and i could kill the hum but my dynamics went to hell ! Felt like it was gateing my notes too much !

I now just use a Decimatro pedal in front of the amp, this way I can shut it off if I feel it is gating to much.

LMAO! You may be right although I just remembered that I'm not using a gate on my low gain rhythm channel and there is zero hum otherwise I would have noticed it.

I'm going to hook up my rig tonight and really give it a listen and I'll report back.

The thing that can get tricky with this stuff is that you can't have 2 of the same thing going on. In other words 1 source must be grounded and the other must be lifted. If you have 2 grounds or 2 lifts I'm under the impression that it's not going to work.
That means if you decided to un-ground one of the units you cant use the lifted cables. Shit gets real complicated real fast hahahahhaa!!

 

[Schaf]

I have tried lifting the grounds on the audio cables and power cables and have had no luck !

Ralph I think your just running two Decimators on full tilt thats why you don't hear it !

Seriously thought when I was using alot of rack gear I was using a Decimator in the loop and i could kill the hum but my dynamics went to hell ! Felt like it was gateing my notes too much !

I now just use a Decimatro pedal in front of the amp, this way I can shut it off if I feel it is gating to much.

Did you actually break the grounds on the cable like I described? Lifting on the power cables didn't do it for me nor did using the ground lift switches on the device. Nothing worked except what I did. In the link, they do a pretty good job of explaining why it happens and what you can do. Mine is very quite now. And it's easily reversable on the cables. To me it would almost have to be something else. If you break the ground on the cable going to the send and return of the loop I don't understand how it can be the ground looping?

 

[screamindemon]

I have tried lifting the grounds on the audio cables and power cables and have had no luck !

Ralph I think your just running two Decimators on full tilt thats why you don't hear it !

Seriously thought when I was using alot of rack gear I was using a Decimator in the loop and i could kill the hum but my dynamics went to hell ! Felt like it was gateing my notes too much !

I now just use a Decimatro pedal in front of the amp, this way I can shut it off if I feel it is gating to much.

Did you actually break the grounds on the cable like I described? Lifting on the power cables didn't do it for me nor did using the ground lift switches on the device. Nothing worked except what I did. In the link, they do a pretty good job of explaining why it happens and what you can do. Mine is very quite now. And it's easily reversable on the cables. To me it would almost have to be something else. If you break the ground on the cable going to the send and return of the loop I don't understand how it can be the ground looping?

Yes I took the cables apart and cut the ground and wraped electrical tape around it before putting it back together.
Ralph, you may be right I may have lifted the ground and the cables at the same time I will try again tonight and see if i have the same outcome.

 

[Anonymous]

I have the RP1000. I had the same problem running 4CM. And for some of us running clean and running into the front of the amp is defeating the purpose because of the switching on those units. I lifted every single ground. Tried both the lifts on the unit. Even on my amp for a couple gigs, but I was wireless so it really didn't matter. Still buzzed like a mother. Fought with it for like 2 months.

Anyway, you can make a little box to correct this if you don't want to mess with your cables. Do a search in the digital modeler section of TGP. And, I know that Gainfreak said most don't recommend messing with the cables, but I don't know how it could be any worse than a regular ground lift What I ended up doing which is basically the same thing the box does which is just take your cables that go into loop, uncrimping the the little clamp on the jack from around the metal braided part of the cable. And then I just put electrical tape around it and recrimp the jack. In essence breaking the loop. Works perfectly now and it's way more quiet. Takes about 10 minutes. When I get something else that doesn't need to break the ground into the loop, I'll just remove the tape and recrimp.

To my knowledge, there is really no danger in doing this. Maybe someone knows something I don't?

wait, what? what cables are you referrring to?

this is a tad confusing bro?! but i like what you're putting out there for us.

 

[Schaf]

I have the RP1000. I had the same problem running 4CM. And for some of us running clean and running into the front of the amp is defeating the purpose because of the switching on those units. I lifted every single ground. Tried both the lifts on the unit. Even on my amp for a couple gigs, but I was wireless so it really didn't matter. Still buzzed like a mother. Fought with it for like 2 months.

Anyway, you can make a little box to correct this if you don't want to mess with your cables. Do a search in the digital modeler section of TGP. And, I know that Gainfreak said most don't recommend messing with the cables, but I don't know how it could be any worse than a regular ground lift What I ended up doing which is basically the same thing the box does which is just take your cables that go into loop, uncrimping the the little clamp on the jack from around the metal braided part of the cable. And then I just put electrical tape around it and recrimp the jack. In essence breaking the loop. Works perfectly now and it's way more quiet. Takes about 10 minutes. When I get something else that doesn't need to break the ground into the loop, I'll just remove the tape and recrimp.

To my knowledge, there is really no danger in doing this. Maybe someone knows something I don't?

wait, what? what cables are you referrring to?

this is a tad confusing bro?! but i like what you're putting out there for us.

Well, it's perfectly clear in my mind. No seriously, I did this on the cables that go from the send and return from the device (rp1000) to the send and return on the amp (jcm800/w metro loop in my case). I only did this on the two 1/4" jacks that connect to the send and return on the amp. Check out the link above. There's a whole discussion about it. I'm surprised it didn't work but, I got rid of all my ground lifts and am not lifting them with the switches on the RP. So, I don't know if that would have anything to do with it or not. When I drive the amp with a OD I get a little buzz, but that's from overdriving the amp. The amp models that I use are dead quiet now.

Hope that helps. I almost gave up and ditched the RP over this loop thing.

 

[Anonymous]

i got it....took my slow ass a minute, but i gotcha.

have you checked to see if there are any of those "new" spiral bulbs in any circuit in your house, that may b on the same circuit as your guitar shit?

reason being, my dining room has a dimmer, and the hum is terrible when the light is on and my gear is on (same circuit)...and the lights i have on the dimmer circuit are the new "spiral/go green" kind if you know what i mean.

also, my motion sensing lights out back and on the side cause major hum and buzz when that switch is even on, let alone if the bulbs are actually on.

worth a check, now that you've run the gamut with your cables.