Guitar amp EQ setting and comparison discussion

[moltenmetalburn]

I have always found there is no such thing as "normal" settings on an amp yet I
hear people say this all the time. So much so I believe it is a real problem for many guitarists.

For Example, have you ever played with another guitarist using a different amp and suggested say less bass or treble to better mesh your tones and they respond "well my bass in on five" or " My bass is only on 3" ?


As every amp has a tone stack that effects different frequencies AND have a different frequency response form the start even before you start tweaking knobs, there is no correlation with amp settings between different amps. None, period.

one amp bass knob could be affecting 80hz while the other 120HZ, one is passive one is active,etc. there are so many variables that the point is there are no relevant, natural, or normal, settings for a guitar amplifier. each one must be tweaked by ear only to find the best tones inside it.

I find the number system most manufacturers use to number an amps dials gets stuck in our head. when trying out new/other amps we wind up using our "comfortable" number settings rather than actually using your ear to decide what sounds best. A major fail for many guitarists out there.

Another fail is seeing the tone knobs as min/half/max :

" I usually set the bass about halfway up" another major fail. halfway up from amp to amp can yield wildly different results.

what do you guys think?

I have encountered so many guitarists with sounds they are not satisfied with or who are demoing new amps who seem almost afraid to turn the knobs outside of their comfort zone: " I never turned the bass up that high on my amp". "on my amp..."

my response: well this isn't your amp and your amps has more 80hz naturally and your bass knob actually effect 100hz so well need to compensate."

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

Exactly why back in the day I completely stopped playing with other guitar players and why in my original band we opted to use 8 string bass to thicken up the sound instead of using another guitar player...

 

[nbarts]

So what's your problem?

 

[moltenmetalburn]

So what's your problem?

I Don't really have a problem just posing some food for thought and discussion.

Maybe "rant" was too harsh a title, ill change it to discussion.

I do find it to be a problem for many others, they have trouble finding the tomes they want or good tones based on their tonestack preconceptions. maybe that is what your asking?

I mean I have heard those types of statements/ excuses far too many times

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

For some reason this reminds me of a guitar player I played with that had OCD with the amp controls he would never set them to where they wasnt pointing to a number

 

[moltenmetalburn]

For some reason this reminds me of a guitar player I played with that had OCD with the amp controls he would never set them to where they wasnt pointing to a number

see there is a prime example!

little did he know the amps true tone, its inner souls could have been hiding at 4 1/2 the entire time!

 

[nbarts]

There is an entire government of morons & what makes you ache are the conservative guitar players? I've had an ignore button installed for these cases long time ago, I suggest you do the same.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

There is an entire government of morons & what makes you ache are the conservative guitar players? I've had an ignore button installed for these cases long time ago, I suggest you do the same.

ha ha, I see your point but mine gripe isn't about the conservative guitarist, its about the MAJORITY or guitarists who have no idea how to dial in their own or new amps.

In fact I can count the few I have seen dial in their tones with only their ears on one hand.

My carpenter is well acquainted with his hammer... My painter knows how mix subtle shades of color... I just feel guitarists should learn their tools of their trade also, it can only benefit them but even that wasn't my point.

Again Id just really like the discuss the phenomenon I stated earlier with my peers. I think my examples overshadowed my real point which I have bolded in the OP.

does anyone else find this is the case?

As for the government, I fly below the radar until the masses are ready to stand up and fight, which I gladly will, until then nothing will change.

 

[thegame]

I've never, ever, fucking NEVER dialed in an amp based off numbers on the controls.

E.g. an Uberschall or Recto with mids on 10 sounds more scooped than a JCM800 with its mids at zero (or close to it).

 

[nbarts]

E.g. an Uberschall or Recto with mids on 10 sounds more scooped than a JCM800 with its mids at zero (or close to it).

There must have been something wrong with you JCM800, buddy.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

I've never, ever, fucking NEVER dialed in an amp based off numbers on the controls.

E.g. an Uberschall or Recto with mids on 10 sounds more scooped than a JCM800 with its mids at zero (or close to it).

nice , glad to hear someone else say they get it too.

I know a dozen guys who scoop mids on their recs

 

[stefvorcide]

I agree with you. Usualy I start with everything at noon... and work from there.

I know my pickups (c-warpig) have LOADS of bass, so I'm careful with the bass/deepness settings usualy...

Otherwise, I dislike to put any amp's presence too high, it sounds harsh to me (like the 6550 or ENGL.. the guy at the store cranked the presence as I was playing it was awful)

the only setting that remains unchanged with any amp.. GAIN !!!!!

 

[glassjaw7]

You're touching on two points here. Different amps produce completely different frequencies/sounds with the dials set at different levels. As stated above, one amp with mids dimed can still sound scooped compared to another with it's mids cut.

But more importantly you're saying that many players either have no idea how to dial in a good guitar tone, or like you said, they don't want to dial with their ears and instead insist on using a stereotyped setting on their amp. Like the old "gain, bass, and treble dimed, mids at zero"

And yes, tone is subjective and not everyone hears "good" tone the same way, but there are guidelines to what a proper and balanced guitar tone should be. It's why players, producers, and engineers work so hard to get a certain sound. Because it works well within a band context and blends well with other guitars.

My biggest complaint when playing with other guitarists is that they play too loud and don't use mids in their sound. Guitar should have some mids, if only a little. There are exceptions, such as a two guitarist band where one uses low/no mids and the other player has a more "traditional" mid-based tone. (like KSE)

As far as volume levels when jamming, I think a rehearsal and live shows should be mixed the way you would want a well mixed recording to sound. There's nothing I hate more than when sound guys bury the guitars in a live mix and all you can hear is boomy bass, kick drum, and overly loud vocals. But sound guys are another story all together.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

You're touching on two points here. Different amps produce completely different frequencies/sounds with the dials set at different levels. As stated above, one amp with mids dimed can still sound scooped compared to another with it's mids cut.

But more importantly you're saying that many players either have no idea how to dial in a good guitar tone, or like you said, they don't want to dial with their ears and instead insist on using a stereotyped setting on their amp. Like the old "gain, bass, and treble dimed, mids at zero"

And yes, tone is subjective and not everyone hears "good" tone the same way, but there are guidelines to what a proper and balanced guitar tone should be. It's why players, producers, and engineers work so hard to get a certain sound. Because it works well within a band context and blends well with other guitars.

My biggest complaint when playing with other guitarists is that they play too loud and don't use mids in their sound. Guitar should have some mids, if only a little. There are exceptions, such as a two guitarist band where one uses low/no mids and the other player has a more "traditional" mid-based tone. (like KSE)

As far as volume levels when jamming, I think a rehearsal and live shows should be mixed the way you would want a well mixed recording to sound. There's nothing I hate more than when sound guys bury the guitars in a live mix and all you can hear is boomy bass, kick drum, and overly loud vocals. But sound guys are another story all together.

Thanks for making concise sense of my earlier ramblings, you hit the nail right on the head on both points.

 

[glassjaw7]

I've never, ever, fucking NEVER dialed in an amp based off numbers on the controls.

E.g. an Uberschall or Recto with mids on 10 sounds more scooped than a JCM800 with its mids at zero (or close to it).

nice , glad to hear someone else say they get it too.

I know a dozen guys who scoop mids on their recs

The thing with the rectifiers is, you can't really dial them the way you do most other amps. The mids don't really increase the way that a Marshall does when you turn it up. For me It's really only usable up to halfway, and even turning it that high gets some pretty gnarly and ugly high frequencies IMO. That's just to my ears, and it gets a little more rounded and better sounding when cranked up loud.
Boogies are the most difficult amps to dial in IMO. It's VERY easy to get an ugly sound out a recto.

I'm not anti mids at all BTW. When I set up a Marshall for instance I usually start with mids around 1-2 o'clock and treble at noon and go from there. I also hate the presence control over 10 oclock on most amps.

 

[thegame]

E.g. an Uberschall or Recto with mids on 10 sounds more scooped than a JCM800 with its mids at zero (or close to it).

There must have been something wrong with you JCM800, buddy.

No, older Marshalls have inherently midrangy voicings & the tone controls don't do much.

Modern Rectos and Ubers just have that 'V' eq voicing, no matter what you do with the controls.

Got it, buddy ?

 

[nbarts]

Got it!

Now the question is if I believe you or not.

 

[fek]

I will agree with your original posting but will add that when I think of "standard tone settings" the first thing that pops into my head is an old Marshall. "Standard" for many people setting an old plexi was to dime everything and clear all small animals out of the room or they will be no more. Or, setting up clean Fender tone with the mids knocked back a little.

Also, when comparing one amp to another, it's easy to start with everything at noon and then tweak.

 

[chunktone]

There is an entire government of morons & what makes you ache are the conservative guitar players? I've had an ignore button installed for these cases long time ago, I suggest you do the same.

ha ha, I see your point but mine gripe isn't about the conservative guitarist, its about the MAJORITY or guitarists who have no idea how to dial in their own or new amps.

In fact I can count the few I have seen dial in their tones with only their ears on one hand.

My carpenter is well acquainted with his hammer... My painter knows how mix subtle shades of color... I just feel guitarists should learn their tools of their trade also, it can only benefit them but even that wasn't my point.

Again Id just really like the discuss the phenomenon I stated earlier with my peers. I think my examples overshadowed my real point which I have bolded in the OP.

does anyone else find this is the case?

As for the government, I fly below the radar until the masses are ready to stand up and fight, which I gladly will, until then nothing will change.

Have you noticed that, when you get a driver's license, you have to pass 2 tests. Yet, imho few people on the road appear to know how to drive. You may have also noticed that there's no test required to purchase musical equipment. Inability to opporate it should be no surprise.

 

[mrbobo]

"Listen with your Ears, not your Eyes"