Help me find my guitar sound!

[James Lugo]

Hey guys I'm going to be searching for my guitar sound for my new record. I've traded around some amps and cabs and have also switched some string gauges, tuning and pickups for my 2 main Les Pauls. I bought the Symphony X record and it has really inspired me to do my thing again. Being a producer you're always doing someone else's thing and your thing can get a little lost in the shuffle but after hearing the Symphony X record I could really hear what the guitarist's trip was sound and playing wise and it really sparked something in me. I will be posting clips and videos as I go through the different combos and I'd love you guy's input along the way. Today I switched out pickups in one of my main 2 Pauls to a Duncan Custom, I think tomorrow I'm switching the pots from 500k to 250ks.

I'm looking for a heavy mean saturated tone in the vein of Hetfield, Symphony X, AIC. I will be using my 2 main Les Paul Standards, my black one has a WB Fire in the bridge which I love and the Sunburst had 10s in standard tuning for years and I just switched it to 11s in Eb/C# to match my black Paul. The Sunburst has had a 9k PAF style pickup in the bridge and it just isn't driving the front end of the amp the way I like it, the way the black one does. I switched it to the Custom which is 14.2k which is more along the lines of the WB Fire that's in the black one.

I'm running 2 guitars, 3 main amps and 3 cabs to find combos and blends I like:

'04 Gibson Standard w/WB Fire in the bridge (11s in Eb/C#)
'06 Gibson Standard w/Duncan Custom in the bridge (11s in Eb/C#)

'71 Marshall Super Tremolo w/Dave Friedman Kitchen Sink mod (Brown Eye, Hairy Brown Eye)
'93 Mesa Boogie black grill 2 channel Dual Rectifier rack version (Racto)
09' Diezel VH4

2 - Bogner straight Twin Jet Uberkabs, front loaded, 2 - V30, 2 - G75 in an X pattern
1 - Mesa Boogie oversized slant Recto cab w/V30

I will also be using mainly 57s and 421s for mics and Neves for pres. But will also try Heil PR20s and M160 with Pacificas and vintage API312s.

So today I just shot some video but I will be uploading clips in the next few days that y'all can download and import to your DAWs and mix and match different amp/cab/guitar combos and give me your input. Again I'm looking for a heavy sound so this is not the AC30 / Fender Deluxe thread...lol

 

[spirit7]

#1: Get some BKPs in those Les Pauls!

-C

 

[Badronald]

Great stuff, but as I'm sure you know, an identifiable sound has more to do with the player and approach than any gear. How many guys use a Les Paul and a Rec or Diezel these days?
I think most of us serious players can get too wrapped up in gear instead of making sure we have the right batch of songs and the right singer.

All I'm saying is I'm pretty sure you'll get killer tones on your album, but it doesn't really matter unless you have the focus you need on the material.

Oh, and like Spirit says. BKP.

 

[James Lugo]

I hear ya but I'm really looking to find my own combination. I did have a Rebel Yell in one of Pauls for years, great pick up.

 

[RockStarNick]

James, I'm a big fan of the Duncan Custom too.

Try some 300K's with it. (The stock Gibson pot that everyone seems to hate, but I love). For me, 500k's with the Custom was a little strident on the top end. 300k's are perfect.

 

[James Lugo]

James, I'm a big fan of the Duncan Custom too.

Try some 300K's with it. (The stock Gibson pot that everyone seems to hate, but I love). For me, 500k's with the Custom was a little strident on the top end. 300k's are perfect.

Yeah I've been listening to the clip and I do really like the Custom in the Sunburst. I have the original Gibson pots are they 300k?

 

[LP Freak]

James, I'm a big fan of the Duncan Custom too.

Try some 300K's with it. (The stock Gibson pot that everyone seems to hate, but I love). For me, 500k's with the Custom was a little strident on the top end. 300k's are perfect.

Yeah I've been listening to the clip and I do really like the Custom in the Sunburst. I have the original Gibson pots are they 300k?

More than likely 500K.

 

[RockStarNick]

James, I'm a big fan of the Duncan Custom too.

Try some 300K's with it. (The stock Gibson pot that everyone seems to hate, but I love). For me, 500k's with the Custom was a little strident on the top end. 300k's are perfect.

Yeah I've been listening to the clip and I do really like the Custom in the Sunburst. I have the original Gibson pots are they 300k?

More than likely 500K.

Depends on the year and model, really. A 2006 might have the 500Ks, like LP Freak said. The older ones, 200 and earlier, commonly used 300Ks. But at the end of the day, if it sounds good, it is good.

The Custom is such a silly good pickup that you can regularly score for $40-45 used. Love it. Probably one of the most un-ceramic-like ceramic buckers I've played.

 

[petejt]

I suppose for your guitar sound, I'm thinking of:

-Diezel VH4 set for a fairly clean, but very bottom-endy tone. Use Channel 3 but set the gain really low- just some slight grit. Make it thump. Keep both the mids and treble relatively mild, but turn the mids up a bit to give it more body so the overall tone is not thin. This will help with that extra definition and articulation that musicians like James Hetfield have, but lots of Recto players do not.
-Recto set for a chunking bottom end and roaring midrange. Bassy but way less than the VH4. You want it to growl- but not fart & moan. Use treble just a bit to bring it up a bit in the mix, but keep it fairly dark so the Marshall can soar over the top.
-Marshall set for a crunchy top end. You want it to sizzle. Keep the mids "healthy" so the crunch has some power behind it rather than hollow screech, but not too squawky or honky, otherwise it will either sound different to what you want, or the honk will squelch out the 'crunch'.

Play around with the Presence controls on each amp to get the right blend. It could take some mucking around though, as all three amps have different Ranges of Presence.
I wish I knew exactly what though!


Use a lot of close-mic'ing to get that aggressiveness, but blend in tiny bit of room mic'ing for depth. I'm not sure what angles to position the microphones at- I'm sure others here will have some tips.

Hey guys I'm going to be searching for my guitar sound for my new record. I've traded around some amps and cabs and have also switched some string gauges, tuning and pickups for my 2 main Les Pauls. I bought the Symphony X record and it has really inspired me to do my thing again. Being a producer you're always doing someone else's thing and your thing can get a little lost in the shuffle but after hearing the Symphony X record I could really hear what the guitarist's trip was sound and playing wise and it really sparked something in me. I will be posting clips and videos as I go through the different combos and I'd love you guy's input along the way. Today I switched out pickups in one of my main 2 Pauls to a Duncan Custom, I think tomorrow I'm switching the pots from 500k to 250ks.

I'm looking for a heavy mean saturated tone in the vein of Hetfield, Symphony X, AIC. I will be using my 2 main Les Paul Standards, my black one has a WB Fire in the bridge which I love and the Sunburst had 10s in standard tuning for years and I just switched it to 11s in Eb/C# to match my black Paul. The Sunburst has had a 9k PAF style pickup in the bridge and it just isn't driving the front end of the amp the way I like it, the way the black one does. I switched it to the Custom which is 14.2k which is more along the lines of the WB Fire that's in the black one.

I'm running 2 guitars, 3 main amps and 3 cabs to find combos and blends I like:

'04 Gibson Standard w/WB Fire in the bridge (11s in Eb/C#)
'06 Gibson Standard w/Duncan Custom in the bridge (11s in Eb/C#)

'71 Marshall Super Tremolo w/Dave Friedman Kitchen Sink mod (Brown Eye, Hairy Brown Eye)
'93 Mesa Boogie black grill 2 channel Dual Rectifier rack version (Racto)
09' Diezel VH4

2 - Bogner straight Twin Jet Uberkabs, front loaded, 2 - V30, 2 - G75 in an X pattern
1 - Mesa Boogie oversized slant Recto cab w/V30

I will also be using mainly 57s and 421s for mics and Neves for pres. But will also try Heil PR20s and M160 with Pacificas and vintage API312s.

So today I just shot some video but I will be uploading clips in the next few days that y'all can download and import to your DAWs and mix and match different amp/cab/guitar combos and give me your input. Again I'm looking for a heavy sound so this is not the AC30 / Fender Deluxe thread...lol

 

[racerevlon]

Most newer 'Pauls come stock with 300K volume pots and 500K tone pots. Interestingly enough, someone was recently looking for a 250K pot for a strat-type guitar. All my friend had was a 300K. We bolted it up to the ohmeter to check actual resistance--measured at 258K. Don't get too caught up in potentiometer/resistor values as there's easily a plus/minus 10% variance.

Most people are singing the praises of the EMG JH set, or at least the 81 that comes with it. For a heavy sound in drop-tuning, I would try something like a Dimarzio Super 3 or Steve Morse Model Bridge--something where the bass is pushed but not so much that it overtakes the mids and you lose your angry "growl."

Use the Marshall and as crazy as it might sound ('cause Friedman's stuff has gain on tap for sure) put a Tube Screamer in front of it. I would fear the Racto and the Diezel are going to sound too compressed and lose some of the heavy feel, unless you've done Papa's decompression mod to your VH4.

Happy tone hunting!

 

[glassjaw7]

Cool tones James! I love your videos, they're fun.

My thoughts: You are definitely changing your tones a bit with the different pups/guitars/amps etc but in my opinion, you already have a "sound". You have a recognizable technique that I can identify, having heard so much of your playing in demos and ampfest clips.
I understand the search though. It's cool to have your gear and sound, but while tone can change from different gear, technique is always yours!

 

[James Lugo]

Just got the Recto cab in the studio, sounds different then the Bogner's, will have to record it and sit back. Also went to some guitar shops and nobody had 250k long shaft pots. Will report back.

 

[hthomas]

Just got the Recto cab in the studio, sounds different then the Bogner's, will have to record it and sit back. Also went to some guitar shops and nobody had 250k long shaft pots. Will report back.

weren't you using WCR's in the sunburst LP? change your mind about those?

A few months ago I got a 1999 R7 and the pots in it are great. Just stock Gibson, not sure what they are though. I don't believe they are 500k. But they do a great job.

Have you thought about getting a Port City cab? there in NC. Hour and half from where you are.

 

[James Lugo]

Just got the Recto cab in the studio, sounds different then the Bogner's, will have to record it and sit back. Also went to some guitar shops and nobody had 250k long shaft pots. Will report back.

weren't you using WCR's in the sunburst LP? change your mind about those?

A few months ago I got a 1999 R7 and the pots in it are great. Just stock Gibson, not sure what they are though. I don't believe they are 500k. But they do a great job.

Have you thought about getting a Port City cab? there in NC. Hour and half from where you are.

Yeah I still have WCR in the neck, I moved my other WCR into another guitar, looking to darken and heavy up the sound a bit. Never used Port City.

Just ordered CTS Long Shaft 250k pots.

 

[hthomas]

Just got the Recto cab in the studio, sounds different then the Bogner's, will have to record it and sit back. Also went to some guitar shops and nobody had 250k long shaft pots. Will report back.

weren't you using WCR's in the sunburst LP? change your mind about those?

A few months ago I got a 1999 R7 and the pots in it are great. Just stock Gibson, not sure what they are though. I don't believe they are 500k. But they do a great job.

Have you thought about getting a Port City cab? there in NC. Hour and half from where you are.

Yeah I still have WCR in the neck, I moved my other WCR into another guitar, looking to darken and heavy up the sound a bit. Never used Port City.

Just ordered CTS Long Shaft 250k pots.

We've talked about me coming to see ya sometime when I'm back In NC, so if your interested in trying a Port City cab, I can bring a 2x12 with M75's in it.

 

[JakeAC5253]

Too bad you already ordered the new pots. I was going to say, something that you could do to really dial in a tone is to convert your tone knob to affect the impedance seen by the pickup, rather than the reactive network... basically it's like having a 500k pot... or a 300k one... or a 138k one... or any pot value at your fingertips, instantly. All you have to do is take the tone control attached to your bridge volume and rewire it. First, remove the cap and unsolder all wires. Next solder a wire from the input lug of your volume pot to the lug where the cap used to be on the tone control. Next, solder a wire from the ground lug (the one that is bent back and soldered to the pot back) to the middle contact on the tone knob. That's it, and now your tone knob is much more effective as a tone shaping tool. It will passively make the guitar darker though, even with the pot full up.

 

[glassjaw7]

Too bad you already ordered the new pots. I was going to say, something that you could do to really dial in a tone is to convert your tone knob to affect the impedance seen by the pickup, rather than the reactive network... basically it's like having a 500k pot... or a 300k one... or a 138k one... or any pot value at your fingertips, instantly. All you have to do is take the tone control attached to your bridge volume and rewire it. First, remove the cap and unsolder all wires. Next solder a wire from the input lug of your volume pot to the lug where the cap used to be on the tone control. Next, solder a wire from the ground lug (the one that is bent back and soldered to the pot back) to the middle contact on the tone knob. That's it, and now your tone knob is much more effective as a tone shaping tool. It will passively make the guitar darker though, even with the pot full up.

That sounds like something I may want to try. How much darker are we talking though? (with pot full up?)

 

[JakeAC5253]

Too bad you already ordered the new pots. I was going to say, something that you could do to really dial in a tone is to convert your tone knob to affect the impedance seen by the pickup, rather than the reactive network... basically it's like having a 500k pot... or a 300k one... or a 138k one... or any pot value at your fingertips, instantly. All you have to do is take the tone control attached to your bridge volume and rewire it. First, remove the cap and unsolder all wires. Next solder a wire from the input lug of your volume pot to the lug where the cap used to be on the tone control. Next, solder a wire from the ground lug (the one that is bent back and soldered to the pot back) to the middle contact on the tone knob. That's it, and now your tone knob is much more effective as a tone shaping tool. It will passively make the guitar darker though, even with the pot full up.

That sounds like something I may want to try. How much darker are we talking though? (with pot full up?)

It depends on the values of the two pots exactly how much darker the tone gets. With a 500k volume and a 500k tone, with the "tone" knob all the way up, the pickup sees a max of 250k, so twice as dark. With a 500k volume and 1M tone pot, the pickup sees a max of 333k. Rule of thumb is that in order to have the least effect to the "full up" sound, the tone pot must be 10x the value of the volume pot, so for a 500k pot, that would mean a 5M tone pot, and for a 250k volume pot, that would mean a tone pot of 2.5M. Of course it doesn't really matter too much, just thought that I would educate on the science behind the tone. I would imagine that a 500k volume and 500k tone in this instance would sound just fine, and the sweep would be very musical, especially given the case that someone wants to darken the sound of their guitar anyway.

EDIT: also, for anyone reading, if you are going to purchase a knob specifically for this purpose rather than just using what's in the guitar, I would recommend a knob with a linear sweep, especially if you choose a higher value pot.

 

[James Lugo]

Ordered the 250k pots from CTS yesterday. Been rockin the Recto cab sounds great. The Racto is tighter and harder through the Recto cab at 8 ohms and lusher through the Bogner at 16 ohms. Nice offset.

 

[James Lugo]

A couple of pics of my set up out here in NC, getting ready for tomorrow. Gonna spend the day with a buddy dialing in guitar sounds.