Help with IIC+ transformer choices?

[GJgo]

Hey guys, I have a dilemma that I could use your help with. In the past I've had four IIC+ with various power transformers.
- HRG with X101 (460PV) & RP10
- DRG with 105 (405PV) & RP11
- DR (410PV) with 105 & RP11
- SR with .. the SR one (490 PV) & RP11

..And I just picked up a HR with the 100 (460 PV) & RP11. Tonally (and I mean all tone, not just OMG MOP) here's how I rate them. Keeping in mind that all these old amps are a little different. There's a tie for second as it's too close to call, for different reasons.

1. SR
2. DRG
2. HR
4. DR
5. HRG

On one hand I'm a tinkerer & it's hard to leave well enough alone. On the other hand I've learned "If it's not broke don't fix it". I also have on hand a black stripe Mark III with the 105 (515PV) that is the best Mark III I've ever played, but it's not quite as good as the C+ & I don't need both so I'll likely sell it. I actually played both amps at band practice last night and while the III had a snottiness that it I liked in the mix, all the guys agreed that the C+ had better clarity & cut. They're not wrong.

So here's my issue. I'm very tempted to swap the III's 105 with the 100 in the C+. Looking at it (and I'm good with an iron) it's not wham bam as there are some things in the way that'll need to be moved but it's not a huge job. The question is, is it worth it?

I tend to like the hotter PTs, but then I've also read some threads where some guys say the 100 is more aggressive (which I like) where the 105 is squishier. However, if I do the swap then the HR will have the full factory RP11 / PT105 spec and I won't be left wondering "what could have been".

What would you do? Here are the amps in question. Thanks.

 

[Tone Monster]

I would go to IIIIICC++++? rehab ?

 

[psychodave]

I much prefer the 100 over the export and 105 transformers. The HRG 2C++ I had was my favorite out of all of them.

Can you just wire in the 100? Meaning don’t remove it from the amp, just lift and extend the wires to the other amp.

 

[Exo-metal]

I've got three keepers, you know them already. The SG the DG and their big brother the KRG. All different so I can't say one is better than the other. You know the discussion and we don't really agree on the EQ vs non EQ preference bc I think I go for a different sound and set the amp up different that you. Overall I have a thing for my SG, it has a silky smoothness to it that I like. On the other end is the KRG and the 500VAC the sextet sees is like no other in terms of brutal and tight. I know the love that people have for the 100 is well documented so I say go for it J. Further, I do prefer the non reverb preamps.

 

[Racerxrated]

Do you guys feel disconnecting the Reverb is akin to not having Reverb? I disconnected the Reverb on my SRG long ago and it improved the tone even more...

 

[Racerxrated]

I much prefer the 100 over the export and 105 transformers. The HRG 2C++ I had was my favorite out of all of them.

Can you just wire in the 100? Meaning don’t remove it from the amp, just lift and extend the wires to the other amp.

I’m with Dave; just wire in the 105 and see. Easy enough to reverse

 

[Exo-metal]

Exactly

 

[Exo-metal]

Do you guys feel disconnecting the Reverb is akin to not having Reverb? I disconnected the Reverb on my SRG long ago and it improved the tone even more...

Mike jumped the reverb in my Coliseum and it is killer....

 

[Tiger1016]

I am just here to watch whatever video ensues after you get your frankenstein on with these legendary amps. I am holding my breath that nothing goes wrong.

 

[Dopethrone]

Same ^

 

[WarHed]

Have you measured the output voltage of any of these transformers to see what differences there might be to the amp operation? Might help guide what to expect from any other transformer swaps

 

[GJgo]

I've got three keepers, you know them already. The SG the DG and their big brother the KRG. All different so I can't say one is better than the other. You know the discussion and we don't really agree on the EQ vs non EQ preference bc I think I go for a different sound and set the amp up different that you. Overall I have a thing for my SG, it has a silky smoothness to it that I like. On the other end is the KRG and the 500VAC the sextet sees is like no other in terms of brutal and tight. I know the love that people have for the 100 is well documented so I say go for it J. Further, I do prefer the non reverb preamps.

I think it's interesting, I've heard from quite a few guys who have owned them all that say they think the S had the best tone...

Also I wanted to mention in the band mix I used my ParaEQ in the loop. When I was running the DRG I A/Bd the onboard vs. the Para. My opinion hasn't changed. I think the onboard has better cork-sniffing tone & feel, however in the band mix the Para has far better cut, clarity & usefulness. My band guys all agreed.

I also prefer the non-reverb amps. I've had a few of them in Mark IIIs but I have not had one in a C+.

 

[GJgo]

I much prefer the 100 over the export and 105 transformers. The HRG 2C++ I had was my favorite out of all of them.

Can you just wire in the 100? Meaning don’t remove it from the amp, just lift and extend the wires to the other amp.

I’m with Dave; just wire in the 105 and see. Easy enough to reverse

Looking at what would be involved to de-solder & re-solder all of those wires, loosening 4 nuts to move the iron is the least of the worries compared to soldering on feet of noodley extensions. IMO.

 

[GJgo]

Have you measured the output voltage of any of these transformers to see what differences there might be to the amp operation? Might help guide what to expect from any other transformer swaps

I've measured the plate voltage at the tubes which I covered in the first post, but I have not measured any other voltages.

I was thinking today, one potential benefit to the lower voltage of the 100 is power tubes should be more reliable. This would be an amp I'd gig with.

 

[Exo-metal]

Something just liquid smooth in feel and tone that amp has, it nearly plays itself.

 

[SBlue]

Got my C DRG with 100 PT, that Mike B. upgraded to C+ in 2010, with the stock Mesa tubes Mike has chosen for both pre and power.
Until this date I could not find myself touching that amp to change thing. It does sound so good that I haven't even bothered about trying better tubes or bypassing the reverb.
But if you have the resources and time, and that's what you wanna do, why not? You might like the 105 PT there better. And if not, just put them back the way they were before.

 

[Racerxrated]

Have you measured the output voltage of any of these transformers to see what differences there might be to the amp operation? Might help guide what to expect from any other transformer swaps

I've measured the plate voltage at the tubes which I covered in the first post, but I have not measured any other voltages.

I was thinking today, one potential benefit to the lower voltage of the 100 is power tubes should be more reliable. This would be an amp I'd gig with.

Doesn't the 100 have higher pv than the 105? I thought the 100 was 460 vs 400 for the 105 from what I read. Which leads to a tighter better for metal response from the 100.

 

[GJgo]

Something just liquid smooth in feel and tone that amp has, it nearly plays itself.

I agree about the 60s. Mine was like that, I could lose myself noodling for an hour. Unfortunately for my needs they lack the power / balls I need, but the tone is the best.

 

[GJgo]

Got my C DRG with 100 PT, that Mike B. upgraded to C+ in 2010, with the stock Mesa tubes Mike has chosen for both pre and power.
Until this date I could not find myself touching that amp to change thing. It does sound so good that I haven't even bothered about trying better tubes or bypassing the reverb.
But if you have the resources and time, and that's what you wanna do, why not? You might like the 105 PT there better. And if not, just put them back the way they were before.

So are you running Tungsgram AX7s then? Those are way too low gain for me.

I read somewhere that Mike B. thinks bypassing the reverb is a waste of time & tries to talk people out of it. FWIW.

 

[Racerxrated]

Something just liquid smooth in feel and tone that amp has, it nearly plays itself.

I agree about the 60s. Mine was like that, I could lose myself noodling for an hour. Unfortunately for my needs they lack the power / balls I need, but the tone is the best.

Agreed, you already know my view on my first 2C, SRG. And, I'm going to say it...that amp sounded INCREDIBLE as a C and I wish I would have left it a C. Sounded killer as a + of course, but as a C it might have been the best sounding amp I've ever owned.
Best feel and tone of all C+ I've owned..Factory HRG, Upgraded HRG++ and now the Coli.