Herbert vs Ultra Lead

[spirit7]

Hello all,

Just for some amusement on this dreary Monday morning, I thought I'd compare these two amps.

I own both. Use the Ultra Lead with my band, and the Herbert for everything else (metal related).

The Herbert Ch. 2+ is, in my opinion, the greatest metal channel ever created. Yet the UL combined with the other guitar player's 5150 II just destroys everything. They are both phenomenal amps. Overall I'd say the UL is quite a bit tighter and has more of a high-mid focus, whereas the Herbert has more of the colossal, tight bass and lower-mids. So...I think I prefer the UL in a band context (though the Herb can more than hold its own - all the stuff about it not being able to cut through the mix is complete nonsense written by people who are clearly unable to dial in an amp) but, I have to say, slightly prefer the Herbert overall.

Not ever selling either of them!

Anyone else owned both and care to share thoughts?

-C

 

[Tone Monster]

I've owned both and didn't love either of them. For me personally, the Herbert was TOO big. It was my least favorite Diezel. The UL I liked better. I can imagine it working well with other amps. Its tight, focused, and defined. In the end (splitting hairs here) it was a very good amp, but it was just a tiny bit flat character wise (probably me...) and needed like 5% more saturation.

 

[D-Rock]

Never played a Herbie but I get along just fine with my UL. It's an old version with no eq.
I was noticing some flatness too with it, but have it gushing with gain and increased the saturation a bit with lots of preamp tube swapping and testing. I also put a NS-2 in the loop and not only did it quiet down the amp more, but it also added some compression.
My 2x12 was sounding boxy, so I removed the 1/3 panel from the back and the amp seems to breathe better. No loss of bass or tightness either. Not with an amp that is this tight at least.

 

[Anonymous]

I never really enjoyed my VHT... way too dry and toneless; I guess it can be good for fast, technical metal
I still own my Herbert, one of the best metal amp I've ever owned, of course

 

[MichaelG]

Never played a Herbie but I get along just fine with my UL. It's an old version with no eq.
I was noticing some flatness too with it, but have it gushing with gain and increased the saturation a bit with lots of preamp tube swapping and testing. I also put a NS-2 in the loop and not only did it silence the amp more so, but it also added some compression. My 2x12 was sounding boxy, so I removes the 1/3 panel from the back and the amp seems to breathe better. No loss of bass or tightness either. Not with an amp that is this tight at least.

What tubes did you end up with, if you don't my asking?

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Hello all,

Just for some amusement on this dreary Monday morning, I thought I'd compare these two amps.

I own both. Use the Ultra Lead with my band, and the Herbert for everything else (metal related).

The Herbert Ch. 2+ is, in my opinion, the greatest metal channel ever created. Yet the UL combined with the other guitar player's 5150 II just destroys everything. They are both phenomenal amps. Overall I'd say the UL is quite a bit tighter and has more of a high-mid focus, whereas the Herbert has more of the colossal, tight bass and lower-mids. So...I think I prefer the UL in a band context (though the Herb can more than hold its own - all the stuff about it not being able to cut through the mix is complete nonsense written by people who are clearly unable to dial in an amp) but, I have to say, slightly prefer the Herbert overall.

Not ever selling either of them!

Anyone else owned both and care to share thoughts?

-C

I've owned both and pretty much agree with everything. The UL is tighter and brighter... but has a bit less gain and a less modern voicing. The Herbert has more low mids, and way more chunky bass. I always would keep the presence on the Herbert at 3:00 which gave it more cut in a mix. The Herbert is also way more saturated sounding too.

And as for the part you mention about the Herbie not cutting in "live band mix"... I completely agree with 100%. I've been saying the same thing for years. But there used to be a loud, cheap, contingent of old bar band hacks around these parts that regarded any piece of gear costing more than $2000 as overpriced and worthless. I think they must have all gotten the norovirus and died on an '80s metal cruise... cause thankfully they don't post much here anymore.

 

[D-Rock]

Never played a Herbie but I get along just fine with my UL. It's an old version with no eq.
I was noticing some flatness too with it, but have it gushing with gain and increased the saturation a bit with lots of preamp tube swapping and testing. I also put a NS-2 in the loop and not only did it silence the amp more so, but it also added some compression. My 2x12 was sounding boxy, so I removes the 1/3 panel from the back and the amp seems to breathe better. No loss of bass or tightness either. Not with an amp that is this tight at least.

What tubes did you end up with, if you don't my asking?

From what I remember, I put a low noise Russian GT in V1, but what really helped was a high gain JJ in V2. I think the rest are all relabeled Chinese variants. Sovtek KT88's as well and I run it through two Mesa MC90's. (previously was Emi Legends and V30's before that)

 

[garey77]

I never really enjoyed my VHT... way too dry and toneless; I guess it can be good for fast, technical metal
I still own my Herbert, one of the best metal amp I've ever owned, of course

Which amp did you own?, would be my question. And toneless? hmm... I think it just tracks much faster than most amps (especially of the rock/metal varieties). You very well could not have been running it hot enough, also. But, hey to each his/her own.

 

[D-Rock]

I never really enjoyed my VHT... way too dry and toneless; I guess it can be good for fast, technical metal
I still own my Herbert, one of the best metal amp I've ever owned, of course

Which amp did you own?, would be my question. And toneless? hmm... I think it just tracks much faster than most amps (especially of the rock/metal varieties). You very well could not have been running it hot enough, also. But, hey to each his/her own.

MV at 75% is a must.
Lot's of players don't dig VHT's though. It's a feel and user application thing. The VHT tone doesn't always mesh with players playing styles or what they are accustomed to playing.

 

[Matt7]

I've owned both and both are very nice amps. I agree with the statement "UL is quite a bit tighter and has more of a high-mid focus, whereas the Herbert has more of the colossal, tight bass and lower-mids." I actually sold the VHT a while back and still have the Herbbie

 

[angelspade]

I own a Herbert, and have spent considerable time with the VHT. Both great amps, but not very similar in my experience. As others have commented: The VHT is both tighter & brighter....And a bit dryer and throaty sounding than the Diezel. Definitely a an "upper-mid" voice, with a crispy top. The Herbert is absolutely GIANT sounding, possible the thickest (in the low mids) sounding amp that I have ever played. It also sound somewhat "produced", if that makes sense...In a very good way. The VHT is a bit "rawer" sounding to my ears. Also, for live performance purposes, you will likely find that the VHT will cut through the mix better. Just my thoughts.

 

[dooredge]

Yet the UL combined with the other guitar player's 5150 II just destroys everything.

-C

I'm blessed to have a Diezel Herbert and a modded VHT Pitbull CL/100. I have yet to take the Diezel to band practice due to waiting on a channel switcher from Wilder Amplfication.

But I figured I'd chime in and concur with you on the VHT. When the other guitar player in the band uses his 6505+ (w/ Mercury Magnetic choke), combined with me using my VHT, it does indeed destroy everything. Those two amps in a band setting are perfect for each other; a massive wall of sound results.

When the dude uses his Mesa Dual Rec Triple Channel, it's the opposite. I'm guessing it would sound better when he uses his Mesa if he knew how to dial it in. It's a spongy muddy mess.

 

[xXDaveyJonesXx]

Damn. I was just debating this very topic in my head. Only I'd be after a CLX in my case. Thanks for firing this one up. Excellent thread material.

 

[MichaelG]

Never played a Herbie but I get along just fine with my UL. It's an old version with no eq.
I was noticing some flatness too with it, but have it gushing with gain and increased the saturation a bit with lots of preamp tube swapping and testing. I also put a NS-2 in the loop and not only did it silence the amp more so, but it also added some compression. My 2x12 was sounding boxy, so I removes the 1/3 panel from the back and the amp seems to breathe better. No loss of bass or tightness either. Not with an amp that is this tight at least.

What tubes did you end up with, if you don't my asking?

From what I remember, I put a low noise Russian GT in V1, but what really helped was a high gain JJ in V2. I think the rest are all relabeled Chinese variants. Sovtek KT88's as well and I run it through two Mesa MC90's. (previously was Emi Legends and V30's before that)

Great! thanks for that. Sounds like those MC90s make a really positive difference as well. Hmmmm.....

 

[MichaelG]

Damn. I was just debating this very topic in my head. Only I'd be after a CLX in my case. Thanks for firing this one up. Excellent thread material.

The CLX really needs a boost to do "teh brootz" IMHO, unless you are running EMGs or another really high-output pickup. From my web-research the UL is more brutal than the CLX, but I really look forward to playing them side by side one day for myself. Gain-wise I doubt the CLX keeps up with a Herbie unless its boosted... but tone-wise I love the open and defined roar of the CLX. Feels really nice under the fingers as well.

 

[xXDaveyJonesXx]

Damn. I was just debating this very topic in my head. Only I'd be after a CLX in my case. Thanks for firing this one up. Excellent thread material.

The CLX really needs a boost to do "teh brootz" IMHO, unless you are running EMGs or another really high-output pickup. From my web-research the UL is more brutal than the CLX, but I really look forward to playing them side by side one day for myself. Gain-wise I doubt the CLX keeps up with a Herbie unless its boosted... but tone-wise I love the open and defined roar of the CLX. Feels really nice under the fingers as well.

Only way I'll ever get to try any of them is to take the plunge. Trigger finger's get'n itchy but I'm not entirely sure where to start. Hardly seems one could go wrong though. Especially as the lowly bedroom player I am. Thanks for the info.

On a sidenote.. UL's not EL34 driven, is it?

 

[GuitarGoat]

Damn. I was just debating this very topic in my head. Only I'd be after a CLX in my case. Thanks for firing this one up. Excellent thread material.

The CLX really needs a boost to do "teh brootz" IMHO, unless you are running EMGs or another really high-output pickup. From my web-research the UL is more brutal than the CLX, but I really look forward to playing them side by side one day for myself. Gain-wise I doubt the CLX keeps up with a Herbie unless its boosted... but tone-wise I love the open and defined roar of the CLX. Feels really nice under the fingers as well.

Only way I'll ever get to try any of them is to take the plunge. Trigger finger's get'n itchy but I'm not entirely sure where to start. Hardly seems one could go wrong though. Especially as the lowly bedroom player I am. Thanks for the info.

On a sidenote.. UL's not EL34 driven, is it?

UL is KT-88.

 

[spirit7]

UL has KT88s.

-C

 

[Anonymous]

I never really enjoyed my VHT... way too dry and toneless; I guess it can be good for fast, technical metal
I still own my Herbert, one of the best metal amp I've ever owned, of course

Which amp did you own?, would be my question. And toneless? hmm... I think it just tracks much faster than most amps (especially of the rock/metal varieties). You very well could not have been running it hot enough, also. But, hey to each his/her own.

I have owned the UL, but also CL-50 and Sig-X
By toneless I mean very cold, hi-fi type of sound

 

[VESmedic]

Owned both, ran them in stereo through 2 deliverance 4x12s... Absolutely mindblowing and way over the top, just the way I like it