How Do These Solder Joints Look To You?

[MississippiMetal]

Here's how I do it:



First off 14 gauge is way too large. I go no larger than 16. I'm using 18 here.

I Insert and wrap, then give the wire wrap a good crimp to make it tight.


Then solder.



This provides the best conductivity and reliability of connection.

 

[cardinal]

But the toanz can't get through wire that small!!11!!

 

[FourT6and2]

This provides the best conductivity and reliability of connection.

While those joints work and are good enough for rock and roll, for "best conductivity and reliability" they would have to meet a number of "best practice" criteria, for example the ones set forth by IPC standards. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything.

1. Wire should be pre-tinned.
2. No solder should be under the wire's insulation.
3. There should be "one wire diameter's length" of space between where the insulation ends and where the joint begins. i.e. the insulation should not be touching the joint.
4. Strands of wire around the "bend" should still be twisted and not starting to unbraid.
5. Wire should be pre-bent before being put through the eyelet. And the length of wire after the bend should be clipped (before the joint is made) so as not to protrude.
6. No crimp should be used. As this can break the tinning and also break the wire or partially crack the wire once tinned. It also makes removing the wire later more difficult.
7. You should only use enough solder to tack the wire in place in the eyelet. And you should still be able to see the outline of the wire through the joint. The "fillet" of solder that is created should be concave, not convex, nor a seamless mass.

Those are industry "best practices" and are standardized for "best conductivity and reliability." One could say that in a guitar cab, it doesn't really matter as long as it gets the job done. But when the claim is "best conductivity and reliability," then it's another story

I'm sure there are manufacturers and guitar amp builders that don't even follow the above criteria though. So I guess do whatever you feel comfortable doing.

 

[PatF]

A couple of them need the Billy Blades triple dipper technique

 

[MississippiMetal]

This provides the best conductivity and reliability of connection.

While those joints work and are good enough for rock and roll, for "best conductivity and reliability" they would have to meet a number of "best practice" criteria. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything.

1. Wire should be pre-tinned.
2. No solder should be under the wire's insulation. There should be "one wire diameter's length" of space between the insulation and where the tinning starts.
3. There should be "one wire diameter's length" of space between where the insulation ends and where the joint begins. i.e. the insulation should not be touching the joint.
4. Strands of wire around the "bend" should still be twisted and not starting to unbraid.
5. Wire should be pre-bent before being put through the eyelet. And the length of wire after the bend should be clipped (before the joint is made) so as not to protrude.
6. No crimp should be used. As this can break the tinning and also break the wire or partially crack the wire once tinned. It also makes removing the wire later more difficult.
7. You should only use enough solder to tack the wire in place in the eyelet. And you should still be able to see the outline of each strand of the wire through the joint. The "fillet" of solder that is created should be concave, not convex, nor a seamless mass.

Those are industry "best practices" and are standardized for "best conductivity and reliability." One could say that in a guitar cab, it doesn't really matter as long as it gets the job done. But when the claim is "best conductivity and reliability," then it's another story

No actually you are trying to start a fight, or you wouldn't have gone through the trouble to list all that out. First off I would be curious to know where you gathered these criteria from, and Also if you can point me to some examples in the industry of these standards being followed. Most of what you listed is from a theoretical ideal. The joints and process I demonstrated satisfy the criteria of optimum conductive potential and mechanical reliability, bottom line.

 

[FourT6and2]

This provides the best conductivity and reliability of connection.

While those joints work and are good enough for rock and roll, for "best conductivity and reliability" they would have to meet a number of "best practice" criteria. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything.

1. Wire should be pre-tinned.
2. No solder should be under the wire's insulation. There should be "one wire diameter's length" of space between the insulation and where the tinning starts.
3. There should be "one wire diameter's length" of space between where the insulation ends and where the joint begins. i.e. the insulation should not be touching the joint.
4. Strands of wire around the "bend" should still be twisted and not starting to unbraid.
5. Wire should be pre-bent before being put through the eyelet. And the length of wire after the bend should be clipped (before the joint is made) so as not to protrude.
6. No crimp should be used. As this can break the tinning and also break the wire or partially crack the wire once tinned. It also makes removing the wire later more difficult.
7. You should only use enough solder to tack the wire in place in the eyelet. And you should still be able to see the outline of each strand of the wire through the joint. The "fillet" of solder that is created should be concave, not convex, nor a seamless mass.

Those are industry "best practices" and are standardized for "best conductivity and reliability." One could say that in a guitar cab, it doesn't really matter as long as it gets the job done. But when the claim is "best conductivity and reliability," then it's another story

No actually you are trying to start a fight, or you wouldn't have gone through the trouble to list all that out. First off I would be curious to know where you gathered these criteria from, and Also if you can point me to some examples in the industry of these standards being followed. Most of what you listed is from a theoretical ideal. The joints and process I demonstrated satisfy the criteria of optimum conductive potential and mechanical reliability, bottom line.

You made the claim that your method of soldering was the "best for conductivity and reliability." IPC-A-610 Standards dictate that criteria. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPC_%28electronics%29

"IPC is accredited by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) as a standards developing organization[2] and is known globally for its standards. It publishes the most widely used acceptability standards in the electronics industry."

It's not "theoretical." MIL-SPEC standards also mirror that criteria. A detailed document containing those standards can be found here: http://www.electromet.com/documents/milstd2000a.pdf

Like I said, not everybody follows those guidelines in a guitar amp or cab. We aren't building tanks or aircraft. But "Best connectivity and reliability" is the "best" for a reason. For example, you don't cut/trim a wire lead AFTER you've made the solder joint, because it can run the risk of damaging the joint. That is "best practices." Just an example. Not saying that's what you did.

This is a hook terminal, not an eyelet. But the same process holds true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RGAUIu6F6o

 

[zoom club]

that last one looks ok, but it appears to be relying on a crimp for the voice coil...

just an observation....don't want to fight over solder techniques,...

cripes, and some of you guys bag tgp

 

[MississippiMetal]

Okay, I'll concede here. I misspoke when I used the word "best", but I did mean what I said about optimal conductivity and mechanical connection. Neither of those joints will ever fail under operating conditions. I would bet my job on it.

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out. I'm trying to find the right balance between best practice and production speed, as I can't take a week to build an amp (I barely get a day) but at the same time I want the connections to be top tier.

 

[FourT6and2]

Neither of those joints will ever fail under operating conditions. I would bet my job on it.

I agree. Like I said, it's a speaker cab. It's unlikely to be subjected to anything that would make those joints fail.

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out. I'm trying to find the right balance between best practice and production speed, as I can't take a week to build an amp (I barely get a day) but at the same time I want the connections to be top tier.

No problem. If you ever want help I live in your area.

 

[MississippiMetal]

Neither of those joints will ever fail under operating conditions. I would bet my job on it.

I agree. Like I said, it's a speaker cab. It's unlikely to be subjected to anything that would make those joints fail.

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out. I'm trying to find the right balance between best practice and production speed, as I can't take a week to build an amp (I barely get a day) but at the same time I want the connections to be top tier.

No problem. If you ever want help I live in your area.

Indeed you do, even closer these days if I'm not mistaken. I moved to east bay recently.

 

[FourT6and2]

Neither of those joints will ever fail under operating conditions. I would bet my job on it.

I agree. Like I said, it's a speaker cab. It's unlikely to be subjected to anything that would make those joints fail.

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out. I'm trying to find the right balance between best practice and production speed, as I can't take a week to build an amp (I barely get a day) but at the same time I want the connections to be top tier.

No problem. If you ever want help I live in your area.

Indeed you do, even closer these days if I'm not mistaken.

Where you at? I'm in SF.

 

[MississippiMetal]

Pt Richmond!

Work commute is brutal.

 

[mooncobra]

Pt Richmond!

Work commute is brutal.

when did you move there? you are right across the bay from me now, point Richmond to Tiburon is like 3 miles across the water! why did you move there, better rents? my friend actually had a really nice place there for a very fair price.

mississippimetal knows his stuff very, very, very well. I have trusted Cameron ccv's to him and high end guitars and have never thought twice about it, he does first class work!!