How to control Guitar Volume on Stage?

[milkman]

Hi all,

I'm playing in a Top-40 band (Drums, Bass, Keys, Guitar) - we don't have anyone sitting on the mixer during our gigs. So I usually use a Volume pedal (in the serial loop of my amp) to fine-adjust the guitar volume to fit in the mix with the rest of the band.

But as anyone knows - a volume pedal in the loops has a bad impact on the guitar tone.
So my question is: what would be the perfect way to control the volume?

What are your suggestions?
Any idea is appreciated

Cheers
Wolfgang

PS. I'm not talking about rolling back the guitar volume knob ...

 

[threadkiller]

Turn your amp down. It will not sound as good. It will sound good enough. In any band but especially a top 40 band, your job is to make to the song as a whole and especially the singer sound better. The slight deterioration in tone you will see from turning down is far offset by not mudding up the mix and not drowning out the vocalist. Use a booster of some kind to punch you up for solo's. A tubescreamer type pedal works well and can be set to give you a boost without adding too much gain. MXR's microamp and others are available for a true clean volume boost. I don't like controlling my volume with my guitars volume control or volume pedal. It's good for cleaning up a crunch tone but when using it to control overall volume and leaving some headroom for leads I always find it makes my tone thin. I currently run my effects unit in the loop and I have a few patches where I allow a little more dry signal through and use that as a solo boost. I like it because I can cut my amp down to a reasonable stage volume and still run my guitar volume wide open unless I want to clean it up, and I get a clean volume boost for leads without having to resort to additional gain.

 

[mboogman]

Hi all,

I'm playing in a Top-40 band (Drums, Bass, Keys, Guitar) - we don't have anyone sitting on the mixer during our gigs. So I usually use a Volume pedal (in the serial loop of my amp) to fine-adjust the guitar volume to fit in the mix with the rest of the band.

But as anyone knows - a volume pedal in the loops has a bad impact on the guitar tone.
So my question is: what would be the perfect way to control the volume?

What are your suggestions?
Any idea is appreciated

Cheers
Wolfgang

PS. I'm not talking about rolling back the guitar volume knob ...

For what it's worth, the George Dennis active volume pedals are the best, most transparent volume pedals I've ever used.

BUT... I keep my cabinet off stage, if at all possible. The loss I get over the length of the speaker cable does not outweigh the positive of getting to turn the amp up a bit.

$.02

 

[milkman]

Hi threadkiller,

thanks for your advice! Unfortunately, this is not exactly the problem I'm trying to solve...
My current amp has 3 channels (clean, crunch, high gain) and within each channel I can switch between rhythm and lead volume. It's mic'ed so the volume on stage is not too high.

But for some songs - or for some reasons - you have to lower or raise the volume.
I'm also the singer of the band so I don't have much time to adjust the master volume such situations.

You're right - once the volume is set right it should be ok for 90% of the songs ...
... but a lot of gigs showed me that during our gigs everyone is getting louder so some adjustment is always needed.

 

[milkman]

Hi all,

I'm playing in a Top-40 band (Drums, Bass, Keys, Guitar) - we don't have anyone sitting on the mixer during our gigs. So I usually use a Volume pedal (in the serial loop of my amp) to fine-adjust the guitar volume to fit in the mix with the rest of the band.

But as anyone knows - a volume pedal in the loops has a bad impact on the guitar tone.
So my question is: what would be the perfect way to control the volume?

What are your suggestions?
Any idea is appreciated

Cheers
Wolfgang

PS. I'm not talking about rolling back the guitar volume knob ...

For what it's worth, the George Dennis active volume pedals are the best, most transparent volume pedals I've ever used.

BUT... I keep my cabinet off stage, if at all possible. The loss I get over the length of the speaker cable does not outweigh the positive of getting to turn the amp up a bit.

$.02

Maybe I'll have to try a George Dennis VP ... currently I'm using a Boss FV500.

 

[Giga]

I have to disagree on a volumepedal in the loop by default deteriorating your tone. That's only true for a non-buffered pedal in a non-buffered loop.

The Boss pedal is non-buffered I'm sure. I've used a Morley Little Alligator which worked fine. Also look into the "one-cable method"; most of the time that's one cable going from FX-send to the output of the volumepedal.

Giga

 

[thenine]

I struggle with this from time to time depending on who I am playing with and what we're doing. My solution has been to use a couple MXR 6 band EQ's. I set them flat with different levels (boost and cut). So now I have 3 levels basically per channel, from low to high: one on - cut EQ, both off (normal amp vol), one on - boost EQ. YMMV.

 

[threadkiller]

Hi threadkiller,

thanks for your advice! Unfortunately, this is not exactly the problem I'm trying to solve...
My current amp has 3 channels (clean, crunch, high gain) and within each channel I can switch between rhythm and lead volume. It's mic'ed so the volume on stage is not too high.

But for some songs - or for some reasons - you have to lower or raise the volume.
I'm also the singer of the band so I don't have much time to adjust the master volume such situations.

You're right - once the volume is set right it should be ok for 90% of the songs ...
... but a lot of gigs showed me that during our gigs everyone is getting louder so some adjustment is always needed.

I see. So, it's the old dueling volumes problem huh. Everybody sereptitiously bumping their volume a little bit at a time until the last set is roaring loud. I'd have a talk with your bandmates.

 

[linuxpenguin]

you could use a compressor/limiter to lower your volume... most decent ones have true bypass and will be transparent.

Obviously it wont kill your sound, but you have your volume knob for that

 

[TeleBlaster]

THD Hotplate was the best thing I ever did for my live tone.
Lots of haters here, but in reality you will not hear the difference in tone at the -4 and -8 settings, but that usually is
enough attenuation to get you a decent stage level.

 

[Schaf]

I have to disagree on a volumepedal in the loop by default deteriorating your tone. That's only true for a non-buffered pedal in a non-buffered loop.

The Boss pedal is non-buffered I'm sure. I've used a Morley Little Alligator which worked fine. Also look into the "one-cable method"; most of the time that's one cable going from FX-send to the output of the volumepedal.

Giga

I'm using an Ernie Ball 25 K Ohm in the loop of my amp. No noticable tone deterioration to my ears. I have the zero loss loop.

Schaf

 

[nevusofota]

I have to disagree on a volumepedal in the loop by default deteriorating your tone. That's only true for a non-buffered pedal in a non-buffered loop.

The Boss pedal is non-buffered I'm sure. I've used a Morley Little Alligator which worked fine. Also look into the "one-cable method"; most of the time that's one cable going from FX-send to the output of the volumepedal.

Giga

I'm using an Ernie Ball 25 K Ohm in the loop of my amp. No noticable tone deterioration to my ears. I have the zero loss loop.

Schaf

Exactly

 

[Even Bigger D]

I'm using an Ernie Ball 25 K Ohm in the loop of my amp. No noticable tone deterioration to my ears. I have the zero loss loop.

Schaf

That's the same pedal I used for years. No problems and no noticeable loss of tone.

I now use a Dunlop rack wah that has a volume control section built in to accomplish the same thing. Not sure if it's better or worse, but it simplifies my cable snake which is nice.

 

[Lord Toneking]

Get one of those small plexglass shields for the cabinet. You could still have some volume without it being projected as much

 

[Giga]

I'm using an Ernie Ball 25 K Ohm in the loop of my amp. No noticable tone deterioration to my ears. I have the zero loss loop.

Schaf

That's the same pedal I used for years. No problems and no noticeable loss of tone.

I now use a Dunlop rack wah that has a volume control section built in to accomplish the same thing. Not sure if it's better or worse, but it simplifies my cable snake which is nice.

That's funny. I used to have one of those and had high hopes of using the volumethingy the way you're apparently doing. Big disappointment, huge tonesuck, so I went back to the Little Alligator at the time.

Giga

 

[Even Bigger D]

That's funny. I used to have one of those and had high hopes of using the volumethingy the way you're apparently doing. Big disappointment, huge tonesuck, so I went back to the Little Alligator at the time.

Giga

It sounds OK to me, but then again I'm not as picky as some people. It's not like I'm trying to preserve the fragile harmonics of some magical amp tone. As long as what comes out of the speakers sounds good to me and works in the band mix, I don't care if it sounds exactly like it would have without the volume control.

 

[Giga]

That's funny. I used to have one of those and had high hopes of using the volumethingy the way you're apparently doing. Big disappointment, huge tonesuck, so I went back to the Little Alligator at the time.

Giga

It sounds OK to me, but then again I'm not as picky as some people. It's not like I'm trying to preserve the fragile harmonics of some magical amp tone. As long as what comes out of the speakers sounds good to me and works in the band mix, I don't care if it sounds exactly like it would have without the volume control.

Haha ! consider yourself blessed !

Giga

 

[steve_k]

Hi all,

I'm playing in a Top-40 band (Drums, Bass, Keys, Guitar) - we don't have anyone sitting on the mixer during our gigs. So I usually use a Volume pedal (in the serial loop of my amp) to fine-adjust the guitar volume to fit in the mix with the rest of the band.

But as anyone knows - a volume pedal in the loops has a bad impact on the guitar tone.
So my question is: what would be the perfect way to control the volume?

What are your suggestions?
Any idea is appreciated

Cheers
Wolfgang

PS. I'm not talking about rolling back the guitar volume knob ...

Try out this cool pedal from HBE called a DETOX. I think it is a Paul Gilbert pedal. It is somewhat of a reverse boost with unity gain when turned up. However, there is a full 3 band EQ on it which in itself is quiet and can be one of those pedals to leave on all the time. Since it cuts the volume when engaged, you don't loose the fullness, as if your guitar is turned all the way up. When you get ready to let fly a solo, disengage the pedal and go back to your normal amp volume. The thing is dead quiet when run at the end of your pedal chain.

Steve

 

[milkman]

I have to disagree on a volumepedal in the loop by default deteriorating your tone. That's only true for a non-buffered pedal in a non-buffered loop.

The Boss pedal is non-buffered I'm sure. I've used a Morley Little Alligator which worked fine. Also look into the "one-cable method"; most of the time that's one cable going from FX-send to the output of the volumepedal.

Giga

That sounds like a solution! I'll definitely check this Morley out! Great tip!
I don't get the point of the "one-cable-method" ...

 

[milkman]

Get one of those small plexglass shields for the cabinet. You could still have some volume without it being projected as much

The stage volume is not my issue ... the amp I'm using sounds absolutely great at any volume!
(look at: http://www.schroeteramplification.com/homeusa.html) it has 3 master volumes ... rhy-master, lead-master and an overall master on the back. I have set the Clean, Crunch and High-Gain Channel at the same volume. So you can switch between each channel rhy/lead volume.

But sometimes it's necessary to adjust the overall volume (effecting RHY and LEAD volume ...)

We use such a plexiglass shield for our drummer it works great!