i forgot Pantera rules

[colimofsmoke]

so, when I was a kid, my mom only let me listen to Christian music. It took months of begging to even get her to let me listen to Christian metal. but finally, I got a Whitecross tape and a few Petra tapes. then one day the redneck kid across the street (i grew up in a small town in South Carolina) slipped me a dubbed copy of Cowboys from Hell, making Pantera, literally, the first non-Christian band I ever heard. no hyperbole. needless to say, they hold a special place in my heart. listened to them for years, all through high school, and much to the chagrin of my roommates and classmates, all through college. but, haven't listened to them in a few years. Found it on my ipod on the train today, and...yeah. still rules.

reminded me how many guitar store employees over the years have used Pantera as an example of a band with bad guitar tone. too scooped, they always say. and it's kind of true. always kind of sounds like he's playing through an early processor of some type rather than an amp. which made me think: is there a band you listen to just because of the tone? everyone on here is always searching for tone, but really, is there a band you listen to just because of the tone?

but, gotta admit. still love Pantera. and the tone works for what it was/is. still wonder what those records would have/could have been with less sterile recording and a "better"? tone. maybe they'd be terrible, who knows.


TIA

 

[Mailman1971]

I never listened to them for the tone....but for the songs.
Pretty buzzy tone but the songs were so kick ass I never minded.

 

[colimofsmoke]

yeah that's what i'm sayin

 

[glpg80]

To be honest i cant picture Pantera any more enjoyable through more traditional/formal amps more commonly used here. The tone just fits the band like a glove. The same as the click in the bass drum that Vinnie always had live - it just fits.

There were clips of Dime playing through one of those mini marshalls that were modified and dime even screamed through one of those. He could have played through anything and still kicked all kinds of ass on and off stage though.

 

[Bloodrock]

Best metal band ever IMO... they pretty much single handedly kept metal afloat through the grungy, anti-guitar 90's, AND managed the first #1 debut metal release ever on Billboard. Truly one of those few bands much greater than the sum of their parts.

Or maybe I'm just a little biased being from here in Ft. Worth. Pantera was pretty much all we listened to in the 90's.

 

[Anonymous]

i think far beyond driven was the heaviest, most crushing guitar tone i ever heard, and still, have ever heard in my life. lots of layering, and a flanger trick he used for stationary frequencies (i forget the guys name for that trick)....

crushing tone.

 

[VESmedic]

That tone WAS pantera, and they were the best, PERIOD. Sooo exactly how did you " forget" this????

 

[colimofsmoke]

i didnt really. just needed to remind myself anyway

 

[petejt]

reminded me how many guitar store employees over the years have used Pantera as an example of a band with bad guitar tone. too scooped, they always say. and it's kind of true. always kind of sounds like he's playing through an early processor of some type rather than an amp. which made me think: is there a band you listen to just because of the tone? everyone on here is always searching for tone, but really, is there a band you listen to just because of the tone?

but, gotta admit. still love Pantera. and the tone works for what it was/is. still wonder what those records would have/could have been with less sterile recording and a "better"? tone. maybe they'd be terrible, who knows.

I've discovered a lot of bands by just researching their guitar tones, and yes I'll listen to them because of the guitar tone/s even if I find the music itself a little corny at times.


Pantera's key amp sound was solid-state, which is why it has that harsh edge to it. Although I find that a bit weary at times, it makes you think that maybe the point of why some amps are overdriven so much is so it deliberately creates a harsh square wave sound, which is exactly what solid state does! But there's a fine line there and straddling it is tricky. You want a sharp edgy sound but you want it to be thick and large as well.

The thing as well though is that Dimebag Darrell used different pickups that had this "fizzy squishiness" to them. I'm not sure what, but I do reckon they added a lot to his sound.


My favourite Pantera guitar tone is from The Great Southern Trendkill (1996), particularly where he uses a flanger on 10's. It's a real chorusey sound but sounds killer, and not cheesey like a lot of the 80s-style chorused dirt sounds.
I can get that sound with my old 70s Deluxe Electric Mistress flanger, which is a bit warmer and swirly but I reckon it makes it better.

 

[petejt]

and a flanger trick he used for stationary frequencies (i forget the guys name for that trick)....

"Stationery frequencies"? Hmmm, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean he filtered his signal with the flanger by setting it to a minimal Rate and had the Manual (delay time) control at a particular spot? Where?

 

[Anonymous]

and a flanger trick he used for stationary frequencies (i forget the guys name for that trick)....

"Stationery frequencies"? Hmmm, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean he filtered his signal with the flanger by setting it to a minimal Rate and had the Manual (delay time) control at a particular spot? Where?

yes
all over the whole FBD album. i know i read it somewhere back in the mid/late 90's. he mentioned it in an article.

if you listen back to it, compared to cowboys and vulgar, those two had a less processed, rawer solid state sound.

FBD has a really deep, lowmid vocal quality to the rhythm tracks.

there's a certain dude that was famous for doing that with flangers..i forget his name though.... using the delay or manual for notch eq frequencies.

 

[ericsabbath]

cowboys from hell rhythm tone was terrible, but he had some seriously searing lead tones
later albums had thicker tones, and better than most of metallica's career, in my opinion
damageplan's tone was awful, though

 

[petejt]

and a flanger trick he used for stationary frequencies (i forget the guys name for that trick)....

"Stationery frequencies"? Hmmm, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean he filtered his signal with the flanger by setting it to a minimal Rate and had the Manual (delay time) control at a particular spot? Where?

yes
all over the whole FBD album. i know i read it somewhere back in the mid/late 90's. he mentioned it in an article.

if you listen back to it, compared to cowboys and vulgar, those two had a less processed, rawer solid state sound.

FBD has a really deep, lowmid vocal quality to the rhythm tracks.

there's a certain dude that was famous for doing that with flangers..i forget his name though.... using the delay or manual for notch eq frequencies.

Thanks for the info Hopefully that article can be tracked down somewhere.

It wasn't Michael Wagner that did the flanger trick you mentioned? He said here in this very forum he used a subtle flanger effecct deep in the mix for Metallica's The Thing that Should Not Be back in 1985. I think he said he used a Lexicon Primetime 93 processor. It gave just this very slight deep swirl- which formed part of the root why I like chorusing so much.


Do you know if he did the flanger trick with The Great Southern Trendkill? Obviously apart from 10's where you can clearly hear a lush flanger/chorus effect.

 

[Anonymous]

and a flanger trick he used for stationary frequencies (i forget the guys name for that trick)....

"Stationery frequencies"? Hmmm, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean he filtered his signal with the flanger by setting it to a minimal Rate and had the Manual (delay time) control at a particular spot? Where?

yes
all over the whole FBD album. i know i read it somewhere back in the mid/late 90's. he mentioned it in an article.

if you listen back to it, compared to cowboys and vulgar, those two had a less processed, rawer solid state sound.

FBD has a really deep, lowmid vocal quality to the rhythm tracks.

there's a certain dude that was famous for doing that with flangers..i forget his name though.... using the delay or manual for notch eq frequencies.

Thanks for the info Hopefully that article can be tracked down somewhere.

It wasn't Michael Wagner that did the flanger trick you mentioned? He said here in this very forum he used a subtle flanger effecct deep in the mix for Metallica's The Thing that Should Not Be back in 1985. I think he said he used a Lexicon Primetime 93 processor. It gave just this very slight deep swirl- which formed part of the root why I like chorusing so much.


Do you know if he did the flanger trick with The Great Southern Trendkill? Obviously apart from 10's where you can clearly hear a lush flanger/chorus effect.

it's not the type of standard flanging you might be thinking of. it's more of a filter effect. each notch on the manual or delay (depending on the pedal you're using) changes the filter frequency...and it's stationary...it doesn't move. im looking for the article...i remember him referencing something from metallica, but i think it was AJFA that he mentioned they did this for.....we're talking almost 20 years ago at this point...and im getting old. now im starting do doubt myself.... anyone else remember this?

 

[mchn13]

I dont remember the article, bu its an old trick we used to use with the old digiteck stuff, gsp21's etc...
The phaser, chorus, can be set at zero rate, and the you set the freq, and you can pull it up or down in the signal. Thats the only processor i ever used that could do the zero rate thing, like a freq filter..

 

[VESmedic]

I guess, quite frankly I just don't understand why people have an indepth conversation about Dime's tone, in reality. I realize this is a gear forum but I mean, why? It's DIME! I mean, some bands and some guitarists are so good, and had such an impact on music and rock history in itself, that his guitar "tone" shouldn't even really come up as a point of discussion. Because 99 percent of people in the "real" world would say..."wtf? WHO CARES! IT WAS HEAVY!!!" I guess. I dunno, maybe it's just me, but Dime had such an impact on me as a player that I could care less if his tone sounded like a mouse fart through a gorilla amp. Same goes for Randy Rhoads, I'll never understand why people would WANT TO chase that tone, but at the same time, I don't know why it even gets brought up, for the same reasons mentioned above. Dimes tone WAS Dime, Pantera would not have been Pantera if Dime didn't sound like that (DIME), atleast in my opinion...Flame repressive suit ON!

 

[metalmaniac93]

They were one badass band and they tore it up live!!!! Vulgar Display Of Power is still one of my favs!!!

 

[colimofsmoke]

I guess, quite frankly I just don't understand why people have an indepth conversation about Dime's tone, in reality. I realize this is a gear forum but I mean, why? It's DIME! I mean, some bands and some guitarists are so good, and had such an impact on music and rock history in itself, that his guitar "tone" shouldn't even really come up as a point of discussion. Because 99 percent of people in the "real" world would say..."wtf? WHO CARES! IT WAS HEAVY!!!" I guess. I dunno, maybe it's just me, but Dime had such an impact on me as a player that I could care less if his tone sounded like a mouse fart through a gorilla amp. Same goes for Randy Rhoads, I'll never understand why people would WANT TO chase that tone, but at the same time, I don't know why it even gets brought up, for the same reasons mentioned above. Dimes tone WAS Dime, Pantera would not have been Pantera if Dime didn't sound like that (DIME), atleast in my opinion...Flame repressive suit ON!

this is also kind of what I was saying.

 

[Anonymous]

I dont remember the article, bu its an old trick we used to use with the old digiteck stuff, gsp21's etc...
The phaser, chorus, can be set at zero rate, and the you set the freq, and you can pull it up or down in the signal. Thats the only processor i ever used that could do the zero rate thing, like a freq filter..

yep.
the reason i remember this specific trick....i did it with my 2101s to notch a certain frequency as you said. it was a weird effect..but you could build your own algorithms in the 2101s....(ie like pedalboards) and you could run a 2x6 mixer to flange/flange/flange/dry/dry/dry for instance...then mix the levels.. pretty wild.

i still want to grab a 2101 ....the tone mixing capabiliteis in these preamps was astounding if you built your own algorithms. you could get REALLY deep with how you sculpted to tone.

anyways, back on point....that article prompted me to run my 2101 rhythm tone different than i had been..dry...but not really "dry".

 

[Anonymous]

sorry, i did kinda derail this thread..but to me, you can't talk pantera without talking dime without talking his tone at some point....like many guitarists, his tone evolved, yet was still really harsh sounding.