I suck at lead - where do I begin

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Stumplegriltskin

Stumplegriltskin

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Being on here, watching some of the vids has me both depressed and motivated.

I play metal, thrash, etc... Not 80's metal like Ratt and all that, but Exodus, Anthrax, and Megadeth, Slayer. I can pretty much play anything from that era Rhythm wise, but I never really played lead. Took 10 years off electric, and have been playing in my hillbilly band, resonator, banjo, acoustic and now I'm back into metal. Below at 2:55 is about the extent of the soloing I can do. So that's where I'm at.

I would like to be able to play some killer lead, but I don't have a clue where to begin. There's a zillion vids on youtube and that in itself is a problem. I'm wondering where I should start. Basically I know the pentatonic scale and that's about it and everything else by ear. Kinda pissed at myself for getting out of electric. I could have been good by now, LOL.

I'd like to start right away. Not really into going for lessons in person, would like some type of program or something if anybody has anything they could recommend. I just need like steps. Master this first, then go to that, etc....

Should I just start with a metronome and start picking scales to start? Thanks.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNFnU3b6KP0
 
You can look up the 3 notes per string scale patterns and learn them

If you learn two connecting boxes that covers lots of territory

There are plenty of backing tracks out there to download.

I take lessons once in a while from a studio player and do that as a way to demonstrate different vibes using the same scale patterns

Also it always gets laughed at on here but learning to play melodies and getting used to hearin the note and knowing where it is is great

I had a guitar teacher a long time ago that was an awesome improviser.

He had me learn to play the melody lines to the most popular Bruce Hornsby songs, then the words to other popular songs. It gets you knowing the note in your mind and inning it on the fretboard. And that is what improvising is about. Even thrashers have a few key notes the piece pivots around. There is a melody even if it is a metal grind melody.

Good luck with it.

The 3 note per string scale patterns are huge for setting your imagination free with lots of places to land when you run out on a tangent.
 
Thanks. And thanks for the book in the first post. I'm a brain with a lot of things in life, but music theory just goes over my head. I've read 4 pages and I'm lost already, heh. I do everything by ear so far, it's just I need to learn techniques and scale patterns first I guess. I'd love to learn the theory as it sucks not knowing what the hell I'm doing.
 
Not that there is a "best" place to start. However, most rock is based heavily on pentatonic, minor and mojor, as well as blues licks.
Of course as you advance gettng into options, modes, scales, and more is great. However, take some time and learn the basic pentatonic shapes. They apply to a wide range, metal, rock, blues, even pop and country all have pentatonic licks.
Megadeth has intense rhythm playing, so if you can do that, you're already going...it's just about getting some practice time in and some memorizing the shapes, then connecting them. Solo over chord progressions to hear how different things sound.
No need to get overwhelmed, many players are almost strictly pentatonic players and they sound great!! Personally, I learned songs, including leads, to get an idea of how things work together, and also to get some idea about "feel" as well. That's something that's more difficult to teach. Feel is about being in the pocket with your lead playing, tension, release, pauses, space, etc. When to play and when not to play.
Don't get down on yourself, get to the woodshed and practice, it's a ball.
 
Vibrato. Really take the time to figure out various vibrato techniques (wide and smooth, subtle, build from one to the other, etc). Once you get an expressive vibrato that can set various moods, even stupid simple leads sound amazing in the song.

Anything else is just gravy.
 
Man, I loved that groove right before the solo. That was nice!

Thanks for sharing.
 
start at the root in one key and work in the box for a while. then transpose outside the box. it will come to you.
 
Rezamatix":o81c5rqg said:
Ive been playing over 25 years and I still suck. This might not be by accident.
Click to expand...

Lol. Maybe I'm not supposed to get good.
 
Rezamatix":qzkesh84 said:
Ive been playing over 25 years and I still suck. This might not be by accident.
Click to expand...
Whatever....I've heard you. You can certainly play well. To the OP, back in 89 after I got out of the military I decided to be a bit more than a rhythm player. I am a big Gary Moore fan, and started trying to play some of his riffs which were blues based. Then I picked up "Still Got the Blues" and just jammed blues solos until everything I did lead wise was always a Pentatonic thing. Jam to some blues stuff....blues scales are always a good place to start IMO.
 
cardinal":11ehwdtj said:
Vibrato. Really take the time to figure out various vibrato techniques (wide and smooth, subtle, build from one to the other, etc). Once you get an expressive vibrato that can set various moods, even stupid simple leads sound amazing in the song.

Anything else is just gravy.
Click to expand...
This is also a very good tip. When I hear someone play, if they have a nice expressive vibrato I always enjoy it regardless of technical prowess. To me it expresses feeling...from the soul I guess. If someone riffs fanatically fast its cool but I lose interest quickly without some passages with some vibrato. Dimebag is a good example. Speed but a signature vibrato. RIP....
 
Post a vid of a tune that expresses some of this vibrato you speak of >> In my best Russian accent.

vladimir_putin_01.jpg
 
billsbigego":1ax66ele said:
Thanks. And thanks for the book in the first post. I'm a brain with a lot of things in life, but music theory just goes over my head. I've read 4 pages and I'm lost already, heh. I do everything by ear so far, it's just I need to learn techniques and scale patterns first I guess. I'd love to learn the theory as it sucks not knowing what the hell I'm doing.
Click to expand...

It's a great series of books, imo. One thing that I heard from Howard Roberts is to relate things to what you already know. Rather than saying "I want to learn the Aeolian mode". You already know the Pentatonic. So, in E add an F# and C to your Pentatonic, and you have E aeolian. Seems easier to add 2 notes to what you already know. Also, learn all five pentatonic patterns inside out, forwards, backwards, in your sleep.
 
Heritage Softail":3pfd1kds said:
You can look up the 3 notes per string scale patterns and learn them

If you learn two connecting boxes that covers lots of territory

There are plenty of backing tracks out there to download.

I take lessons once in a while from a studio player and do that as a way to demonstrate different vibes using the same scale patterns

Also it always gets laughed at on here but learning to play melodies and getting used to hearin the note and knowing where it is is great

I had a guitar teacher a long time ago that was an awesome improviser.

He had me learn to play the melody lines to the most popular Bruce Hornsby songs, then the words to other popular songs. It gets you knowing the note in your mind and inning it on the fretboard. And that is what improvising is about. Even thrashers have a few key notes the piece pivots around. There is a melody even if it is a metal grind melody.

Good luck with it.

The 3 note per string scale patterns are huge for setting your imagination free with lots of places to land when you run out on a tangent.
Click to expand...

What he said! I used to teach my students this "Master Modal Pattern" and the seven three-note scale boxes that make it up. Once you know this pattern, you can move it up and down the neck to get all the modes in all the keys. It really sets you free as a lead player. Also, the five pentatonic (5-note) patterns are contained in there as well of course, but this is based on the 7-note diatonic patterns.

ModalMasterPattern.jpg
 
steve_k":3mfdrhuv said:
start at the root in one key and work in the box for a while. then transpose outside the box. it will come to you.
Click to expand...


Simple yet good advice. I would add stick to it and be disciplined regardless of how simple something might be. I have decided to just be good at the basics (bending in pitch, controlled balanced vibrato, etc). Sometimes it is fun to push myself outside of the norm but I don't stray too far. Take risks here and there.
 
What box are you guys talking about?

I always thought there was a scale for each mode, like aeolian, dorian, etc... and you memorized that and moved it up or down frets depending on what key you're in.
I wish I learned this shit a long time ago. I just don't get it at all. I'm blessed with a great ear and cursed with being dumb.

Are there any online courses you can recommend? I tried that PDF in the first or second post, and was lost by page 4.
 
billsbigego":2613m74u said:
Thanks. And thanks for the book in the first post. I'm a brain with a lot of things in life, but music theory just goes over my head. I've read 4 pages and I'm lost already, heh. I do everything by ear so far, it's just I need to learn techniques and scale patterns first I guess. I'd love to learn the theory as it sucks not knowing what the hell I'm doing.
Click to expand...

This is me dude. I've never had a hard time trying to learn something, but I just cannot retain music theory. I started playing about 12 years ago, with a 7 year hiatus sprinkled in, and I still cannot retain simple things like scales. I legit only know 2 positions of the minor pentatonic, and that's it. It's frustrating as hell to be not be able to get things from your head to your hands easily because you don't know where you're going. I was honestly thinking about taking guitar lessons because I've never had any.
 
billsbigego":2m0ehrhw said:
Post a vid of a tune that expresses some of this vibrato you speak of >> In my best Russian accent.

vladimir_putin_01.jpg
Click to expand...

Stuff like David Gilmour maybe. I hesitate to suggest this because there's so much else going on in the tune, but Vai's Tender Surrender (if I recall) is a vibrato show piece (in addition to Vai's unbelievable technical skills too).
 
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