Is Gibson doing THAT badly?

[spawnofthesith]

I recently got a LP Studio, and I love it *shrug*

 

[dawnofdreamx97]

there is an ass for every seat....you'd be amazed at some of whacky stuff i see people pickup...gibson aint goin no where... they still make a quality product. I like the traditionals, i agree they are a not that consistent but I'll tell you right now that randy LP was the best les paul I ever played... no shit!

 

[EXPcustom]

Gibson is just one of those companies that people like to bitch about.

If you ask around for what year(s) to buy if you want a good one, most people will tell you that the modern ones are way better than what they were building 10, 20, 30 or 40 years ago... with 2008 being a bit of a high point. People just don't like to admit that Gibson's currently making the best guitars they've made since pre-Norlin.

Then there's the 'price point' issues. People seem to think that a basic, student model guitar should come with the same fit an finish as a top end, professional model guitar.... then get all butt-hurt over it when it develops issues. I know there's a lot of cheap mother-f*ckers out there, but IMO $5500 for a top end instrument is not that bad... even if I can't afford it myself.

I think the stupid 'guitar of the minute' stuff is mostly for advertising attention. I mean, lets face it... the shittier the guitar the more publicity it gets them. No one really cares if they release yet another plain old Les Paul... but stick robot tuners and a USB port on one and it'll be on every gear forum within a matter of minutes, and people will argue over the stupid thing for a week.

Not much else to it.

The early 90's era Gibsons are the best and believe it or not some of the cheapest on the second hand market.

Over they last five years I have owned at least 8 Gibsons from after 2002 and they are all shit to maybe mediocre at best. If I could have the guitars and you in person I would be able to point out on each one why it was total shit quality, I am talking I have had everything from CS Les Pauls to regular production USA stuff. I could go over in detail on each one the QC issues and why this or that is unacceptable. Everything from finish flaws to shitty fret jobs to electronics and more.

If I then compared it to the early to mid 90's Gibsons you would actually see and hear the difference. I could grab any Gibson from the late 80's and early 90's off the rack and guarantee it to be a great guitar.

One thing Gibson does now is use Chinese made hardware which is shit for tuning stability because of the inferior alloys but that's just one issue.

 

[romanianreaper]

I've got a 08 standard that just kills, love it

I have an 08' as well and really like it.

 

[Ancient Alien]

I have a Bonamsa and love it. Prices? Well have you guys checked the prices for Huber, Anderson, Tylers, Suhrs, Grosh, McNaught, etc.? I feel it's getting stupid how much guitars are anymore.

I hear you, But....
The difference is that you are getting a high quality, mostly hand crafted instrument, built to your specs by those companies.
With Gibson, you get generic, not so high quality guitars.
And I can say from personal experience and friends experience, even their custom shop sucks a big sweaty ballsack.
Todays "standard" LP should be around $500-$700, because that is the quality you are getting.
Even the attention to detail is poor at best. Cheap nuts, cheap tuners, cheap pickups, shoddy wood, horrible finishes that leave the factory uncured with blemishes.
I could go on and on since I see tons of brand new gibby's come into my friends store, and more than 50% of them get sent back.
And the fact that his sales rep showed us all pictures of the "USA" made gibby being made at the Epiphone plant in China, being exported to Gibson USA for assembly, it shows you exactly where they are at....

 

[AmpliFIRE]

I think it has a lot more to do with the manufacturing in China and assembly in the US for the regular stuff.
But most Gibbyfans are still in denial about this FACT.

Steve...I remember when you originally said this a few years back. Not to sounds like a dick, but I've never heard anyone else mention it since. IMO there's no way news this big wouldn't be all over the internet if it was true.

 

[locoed]

I will say,i bought this Custom shop almost 2 years ago and it's the best all around guitar i've ever owned,except my 70 custom.
It's 11LBS but it's an amazing disco looking guitar,i bought the standard version of this too but i sold it a year ago,it just wasn;t up to par. As far as my other Les Pauls and Explorers it's been hit and miss and like every other guitar company you have to try them before you buy,just like you would a car or anything else,people do jump on the band wagon when it comes to bashing.
"Mob Mentality"

 

[zerohawk]

I thought the robot tuning was a stupid idea in the beginning. Now that I have a cover band, I would absolutely LOVE to have a les paul with the tuning system. Just throw it on and tune betwen songs within 10 seconds instead of fidgeting aroung for over a minute.

 

[TheMagicEight]

I could grab any Gibson from the late 80's and early 90's off the rack and guarantee it to be a great guitar.

I played a couple at the store I work for and was thoroughly underwhelmed

Some of the new LPs I've played have been dogs too, but I have no problem paying the price of most new Gibsons.

I think it has a lot more to do with the manufacturing in China and assembly in the US for the regular stuff.
But most Gibbyfans are still in denial about this FACT.

I don't believe this for one second. In early 2010, the Nashville flood wiped out the Gibson USA factory. Gibson didn't ship out guitars for months while they retooled, losing thousands of dollars. Assembly doesn't require that type of factory, and if they were truly made in China, production would have continued. Further, look at the date stamps (something part of manufacturing and not assembly) on Gibson USA guitars. Notice that there are none in existence built in early to mid 2010.

I believe parts on Gibson guitars might come from China - after seeing the inside of a "Bumblebee" cap I would believe it - but Gibson guitars being built in China is anything but a fact.

 

[Ancient Alien]

I thought the robot tuning was a stupid idea in the beginning. Now that I have a cover band, I would absolutely LOVE to have a les paul with the tuning system. Just throw it on and tune betwen songs within 10 seconds instead of fidgeting aroung for over a minute.

well, Gibsons are definitely good for going out of tune after about one note
I've played 2 hours at gigs and not had to tune a single string, so I'll stick with what works

 

[Ancient Alien]

I could grab any Gibson from the late 80's and early 90's off the rack and guarantee it to be a great guitar.

I played a couple at the store I work for and was thoroughly underwhelmed

Some of the new LPs I've played have been dogs too, but I have no problem paying the price of most new Gibsons.

I think it has a lot more to do with the manufacturing in China and assembly in the US for the regular stuff.
But most Gibbyfans are still in denial about this FACT.

I don't believe this for one second. In early 2010, the Nashville flood wiped out the Gibson USA factory. Gibson didn't ship out guitars for months while they retooled, losing thousands of dollars. Assembly doesn't require that type of factory, and if they were truly made in China, production would have continued. Further, look at the date stamps (something part of manufacturing and not assembly) on Gibson USA guitars. Notice that there are none in existence built in early to mid 2010.

I believe parts on Gibson guitars might come from China - after seeing the inside of a "Bumblebee" cap I would believe it - but Gibson guitars being built in China is anything but a fact.

You misunderstood what I said.
The PARTS are made in China in the raw.
Necks, bodies, hardware, pickups etc.
They are then shipped to the US and put together.
That includes fretting, binding, setting necks, finishing, wiring etc.
The raw bodies, necks etc are made at the Epiphone plant to cut a tremendous amount of cost.
The pictures I saw were raw bodies and necks being shipped to "Gibson USA", and they were not Epiphone parts.

 

[TheMagicEight]

You misunderstood what I said.
The PARTS are made in China in the raw.
Necks, bodies, hardware, pickups etc.
They are then shipped to the US and put together.
That includes fretting, binding, setting necks, finishing, wiring etc.
The raw bodies, necks etc are made at the Epiphone plant to cut a tremendous amount of cost.
The pictures I saw were raw bodies and necks being shipped to "Gibson USA", and they were not Epiphone parts.

Ahh, I see. I did misunderstand.

I suppose the fact of the matter is that there's a lot of evidence that Gibson does make everything in the US, and very little showing them manufacturing in China. The factory tours posted all over Youtube? The large number of claims from people that have been in the Gibson factory that everything is built there? To me, that Gibson guitars are manufactured in China in any way is not a fact. A possibility - even if slim - sure, but I just don't see the evidence.

 

[chunktone]

I think it has a lot more to do with the manufacturing in China and assembly in the US for the regular stuff.
But most Gibbyfans are still in denial about this FACT.

Steve...I remember when you originally said this a few years back. Not to sounds like a dick, but I've never heard anyone else mention it since. IMO there's no way news this big wouldn't be all over the internet if it was true.

Ya, this was not true last time I was there. Lumber in one end, guitars out the other.

 

[rottingcorpse]

i like gibsons. like any other guitar, it needs to be set up and tweeked to my "specs". gotta love the plek'ed stuff though.

and not to jump on the "imported gibson" thing, but it is not unheard of. anyone else know the washburn "imports stamped as made-in-usa" debacle? man, they got slammed for that shit. rudy really took a beating for that. yes, they were still making custom usa's in house (wood in one end, finished guitars out the other). but they were bringing in whole containers of imports and stamping them made-in-usa.

 

[kannibul]

Seems you can't mention Gibson without someone else throwing in the fact that they make lousy, expensive guitars and are only still around because of their name. Are they really doing so terribly? It seems like the guitars they're making now are leaps and bounds better than the Norlin years (which isn't to say great guitars didn't come from those years as well). Sure, they're making terrible choices too - Firebird X, Robot technology, chambering (IMO) - but most of the Traditional LPs, SGs, and Custom Shops I've played have been amazing guitars!

I'm not saying they're doing an excellent job all around, but I do believe their efforts with the guitars that Gibson became notorious for deserves a little bit of credit. Anyone else?

Funny thing...Norlin era are better than average when compared to what Gibson is putting out today.

 

[kannibul]

I could grab any Gibson from the late 80's and early 90's off the rack and guarantee it to be a great guitar.

I played a couple at the store I work for and was thoroughly underwhelmed

Some of the new LPs I've played have been dogs too, but I have no problem paying the price of most new Gibsons.

I think it has a lot more to do with the manufacturing in China and assembly in the US for the regular stuff.
But most Gibbyfans are still in denial about this FACT.

I don't believe this for one second. In early 2010, the Nashville flood wiped out the Gibson USA factory. Gibson didn't ship out guitars for months while they retooled, losing thousands of dollars. Assembly doesn't require that type of factory, and if they were truly made in China, production would have continued. Further, look at the date stamps (something part of manufacturing and not assembly) on Gibson USA guitars. Notice that there are none in existence built in early to mid 2010.

I believe parts on Gibson guitars might come from China - after seeing the inside of a "Bumblebee" cap I would believe it - but Gibson guitars being built in China is anything but a fact.

You misunderstood what I said.
The PARTS are made in China in the raw.
Necks, bodies, hardware, pickups etc.
They are then shipped to the US and put together.
That includes fretting, binding, setting necks, finishing, wiring etc.
The raw bodies, necks etc are made at the Epiphone plant to cut a tremendous amount of cost.
The pictures I saw were raw bodies and necks being shipped to "Gibson USA", and they were not Epiphone parts.

Given that Epiphone uses "Gibson USA" parts, perhaps what you saw was something destined for use internally for Epiphone or being shipped out from Epiphone.

Epiphone's pickups, for example, are "Gibson USA"....

 

[AmpliFIRE]

Funny thing...Norlin era are better than average when compared to what Gibson is putting out today.

you call pancake bodies, boat anchor weight and multi-piece tops better? Thanks, but I'll take a new Gibson over most Norlin's...

 

[EXPcustom]

You misunderstood what I said.
The PARTS are made in China in the raw.
Necks, bodies, hardware, pickups etc.
They are then shipped to the US and put together.
That includes fretting, binding, setting necks, finishing, wiring etc.
The raw bodies, necks etc are made at the Epiphone plant to cut a tremendous amount of cost.
The pictures I saw were raw bodies and necks being shipped to "Gibson USA", and they were not Epiphone parts.

Ahh, I see. I did misunderstand.

I suppose the fact of the matter is that there's a lot of evidence that Gibson does make everything in the US, and very little showing them manufacturing in China. The factory tours posted all over Youtube? The large number of claims from people that have been in the Gibson factory that everything is built there? To me, that Gibson guitars are manufactured in China in any way is not a fact. A possibility - even if slim - sure, but I just don't see the evidence.

Look at the bottom of their bridges, they used to have a union stamp on the bottom. They no longer have those. Its no secret the hardware is now made and stamped in China, they will even tell you that on the My Les Paul forums. As for the neck and body blanks being made over there, I have no idea, to me that is speculation at this point. I would not be shocked if it was true.

 

[blackba]

Funny thing...Norlin era are better than average when compared to what Gibson is putting out today.

you call pancake bodies, boat anchor weight and multi-piece tops better? Thanks, but I'll take a new Gibson over most Norlin's...

What's wrong with pancake bodies? I will give you that both '73 LP customs I have played mine and a friends were heavy, but they are nice sounding and playing guitars. They do have the modified long tendon neck from what I have read, that is a plus.

For me its difficult to compare what Gibson is putting out today versus the Norlin era. How many have really played enough guitars to really make a valid determination one way or the other, I sure haven't...

 

[AmpliFIRE]

Funny thing...Norlin era are better than average when compared to what Gibson is putting out today.

you call pancake bodies, boat anchor weight and multi-piece tops better? Thanks, but I'll take a new Gibson over most Norlin's...

What's wrong with pancake bodies? I will give you that both '73 LP customs I have played mine and a friends were heavy, but they are nice sounding and playing guitars. They do have the modified long tendon neck from what I have read, that is a plus.

For me its difficult to compare what Gibson is putting out today versus the Norlin era. How many have really played enough guitars to really make a valid determination one way or the other, I sure haven't...

Pancake bodies=cheap construction (shortcut) and poor resonance. A few years back I was determined to buy a 70's LP and I actually went to the Philly guitar show with that sole purpose. After trying about 10-12 guitars out I decided that I didn't like any of them. Everyone of them sounded dead compared to the '01 LP Std that I had to compare it to at that time. YMMV...