ConcreteVampire
Active member
I gotz me one of those! 
jerrydyer
Active member
lantern58":3i4yvv58 said:
that looks really good. you like them orange droppies huh ? mine are such a soup. I like those as bright caps and PI sometiemes. I have some sozos, some solen fast some audiophilers, some reg illinoise etc. then when its all done I fine tune it by changing brands here and there.
kasperjensen
New member
If it sounds better, it won't die.
A
Anonymous
Guest
It doesn't sound better. A properly designed PCB will sound just as good as a well-built turret board design no matter what the cork sniffers say and will be easier to build with more consistency from amp to amp.Badronald":3g8iz2yk said:Honest question. Do they sound better?
If not, then their days are numbered.
It won't die though, for several reasons. First, some builders that use this technique still market the "turret board is better" really well and there are enough people who believe it to buy them. Also, the repro market (plexi clones, dumble clones, fender clones) has to be done on turret boards or who would buy them? It wouldn't be a repo... It is also cool to prototype some designs with turret boards even if the final product will be PCB. Plus, they look so damn pretty!
Steve
M
mrkmas
New member
I greatly appreciate hand wiring. For me there is nothing like it. Not only is it visually appealing, but I like to see and know that someone took the time to actually sit there and make the amp from scratch.
S
Shiny_Surface
Active member
I haven't heard "they sound better" argument as much as "they are easier to fix" it seems.
I sure do like looking at those hand wired guts though...
I sure do like looking at those hand wired guts though...
racerevlon
Active member
Personally, I like the tone of hand-wiring (my ears believe they can hear it--go figure--they're probably in league with my wallet). If you need help soldering, let me know--I'm a bad mofo with a soldering gat ('hood reference for street 'cred).
MrDan666
Active member
sah5150":1f7kd5uf said:It doesn't sound better. A properly designed PCB will sound just as good as a well-built turret board design no matter what the cork sniffers say and will be easier to build with more consistency from amp to amp.Badronald":1f7kd5uf said:Honest question. Do they sound better?
If not, then their days are numbered.
It won't die though, for several reasons. First, some builders that use this technique still market the "turret board is better" really well and there are enough people who believe it to buy them. Also, the repro market (plexi clones, dumble clones, fender clones) has to be done on turret boards or who would buy them? It wouldn't be a repo... It is also cool to prototype some designs with turret boards even if the final product will be PCB. Plus, they look so damn pretty!
Steve
Agreed 100% Steve.
There are many uses for both PCB and Turret-board, I love both types of builds and respect them both equally.
Realistically.. if you're putting together amps with multiple channels/MIDI/FX Loops etc, then it almost always ends up a cleaner build if done on a properly designed PCB. Mike Fortin's Meathead is a perfect example, it's one of (if not) the best PCB layouts i have ever seen, and you could never cleanly build an amp like that on Turret alone. You have the right idea too with your new PCB design for your Henning Custom amp!
A
Anonymous
Guest
How are you not "making it from scratch" with a PCB. You still have to solder the components and hand wire all the controls, transformers, etc. You still have to be careful with lead dress etc. Honestly, the only thing difference is you are not running wires between turrets. I never understand what people mean by this. PCB amps are not built by robots...mrkmas":22wtvnk5 said:
Steve
A
Anonymous
Guest
Absolutely. Do you want this for your multiple channels/MIDI/FX Loops etc amps:MrDan666":2e8x4i2u said:sah5150":2e8x4i2u said:It doesn't sound better. A properly designed PCB will sound just as good as a well-built turret board design no matter what the cork sniffers say and will be easier to build with more consistency from amp to amp.Badronald":2e8x4i2u said:Honest question. Do they sound better?
If not, then their days are numbered.
It won't die though, for several reasons. First, some builders that use this technique still market the "turret board is better" really well and there are enough people who believe it to buy them. Also, the repro market (plexi clones, dumble clones, fender clones) has to be done on turret boards or who would buy them? It wouldn't be a repo... It is also cool to prototype some designs with turret boards even if the final product will be PCB. Plus, they look so damn pretty!
Steve
Agreed 100% Steve.
There are many uses for both PCB and Turret-board, I love both types of builds and respect them both equally.
Realistically.. if you're putting together amps with multiple channels/MIDI/FX Loops etc, then it almost always ends up a cleaner build if done on a properly designed PCB. Mike Fortin's Meathead is a perfect example, it's one of (if not) the best PCB layouts i have ever seen, and you could never cleanly build an amp like that on Turret alone. You have the right idea too with your new PCB design for your Henning Custom amp!
or this:
Look, I'm know there are some people who could do that turret wired version better than me (Muller Amplification is one), but still, the amp will be better PCB and with separate channel EQs and more tone shaping controls. And once I get the prototype done, I'll be able to get them out WAY faster...
Steve
M
mrkmas
New member
sah5150":1mr577pn said:
Sorry about that, let me clarify. When I think of pcb soldering, I think of the components being placed on the board and the board being wave soldered and the volume pots being those little board mounted pots. Absolutely nothing wrong with doing it this way, and no sound difference. I just feel alot of the time big manufacturers cheap out with this process (I think of marshall). If the components are being soldered to the pcb 1 by 1, then that is great as well and my above comment should be ignored.
I have never seen an amp by anyone on here that was made with any shortcuts, you guys all do them right and take the time to use quality stuff.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I gotcha. It is really the bad designs, thin boards and crappy components that are in cheap PCB amps that give 'em a bad rap...mrkmas":2739421u said:
Steve
M
mrkmas
New member
Yah, the pcb style isnt bad. I mean a soldered connection is a soldered connection....sah5150":2vrq4ah8 said:
glpg80
Well-known member
sah5150":3fzqmisc said:
Couldnt have said it any better myself.
Digital Jams
New member
racerevlon":1195mgnp said:
Last guy I saw post this type of reply had John Suhr challenge him outright to go to NAMM and play two amps, one turret and one PCB and nail his guess everytime 10 out of 10. Tag backed out
John offered the amps I believe as a reward.Aiken has debated this on and on, Randall is one guy I listen to and he states you will not know the difference and yes he IS a rocket scientist
Digital Jams
New member
sah5150":1ls5i0tu said:
I read the OP was speaking of wave soldering when you replied with this but others imo do not see what you wrote so it was good you did. PCB also takes work to solder componets, wires, etc. I hope a Henning comes out east as I am very interested
steve_k
New member
I don't think I could tell a difference in one over the other. I just like the look, and the craftsmanship in a hand-wired, PTP amp. And, I can find my way around much easier!
Steve
Steve
Ventura
Well-known member
Not as much a 'lost art' as it is a 'niche market'. When production needs to run larger numbers, and costs are a concern, PCB is the smarter way to go. As per several comments above, and having had both styles of construction, I am not one to say one sounds better than the other - a solder point is a solder point. The way I see it is it all comes down to QC. A properly set up PCB with excellent QC technicians will make an exceptional circuit. P2P wiring is great - time consuming - but great. However, the propensity for error is greater with P2P en masse production than high-quality, boutique builds with PCB. Knock down the foodchain a bit and get into 'cheaper amps', the margin for sub-standard workmanship or tooling/soldering accuracy also gets compromised.
Hey, if I flick the switch and it makes me dribble a bit - I don't care what's under the hood
Hey, if I flick the switch and it makes me dribble a bit - I don't care what's under the hood
M
mdc1mdc11
New member
if you really want to understand where amps could be in the future, consider if computers were still vacuum tubes with massive wiring constructs in a multi-story building with less computational ability than your digital watch.
Although audio signals are different in application, PCBs chase out the noise and product inconsistencies, just as reducing transistors in silicon in microprocessors for computer designs increase performance and stability of switching. I guess if you don't use PCBS and have handwired approach you could get a unique build each time. Seems like that would be really hard to scale up to support a large business model. Does that mean hand built is limited to boutique limited collector audience? Don't know, but it seems to suggest that.
Although audio signals are different in application, PCBs chase out the noise and product inconsistencies, just as reducing transistors in silicon in microprocessors for computer designs increase performance and stability of switching. I guess if you don't use PCBS and have handwired approach you could get a unique build each time. Seems like that would be really hard to scale up to support a large business model. Does that mean hand built is limited to boutique limited collector audience? Don't know, but it seems to suggest that.
bubbastain
Well-known member
I thought the Printed Turret Board that Mako was putting out was really cool. Looked really cool anyways.