Just tried some Electronic drums and....

[Audioholic]

Considering going over to an electronic drum kit, purely for possible new living condition reasons. I use and really like some of the drum libraries out there, getting very good. So, I went and tried out some of the Ekits out there, even the roland's flagship top of the line 6 grand kit. and you know what?

THEY SUCK!

Horrible internal sounds. I was very disappointed. While I most likely would be triggering sample libraries, I would want something that sounded fine on its own. And at the cost you are paying for the brains, they are very dissapointing. Snare is machine gun central. I really would of thought the technology would of come further by now. The triggering is getting better I guess, but you end up paying way more for a decent feeling ekit then you would a GREAT acoustic kit.

Pretty bummed actually.

What are you ekit users using and what do you like?

 

[Juggernaut]

I've got an alesis kit coming, will eventually have it set-up with 2 DM5 modules.....

The new Alesis sets are pretty cheap and are USB so you dont use a module but DFH instead, or another drum software, supposed to be pretty cool.

I'm just getting one for basic drum ideas, for recording here at home.....

 

[Audioholic]

Alesis is also coming out with a DM10 Pro kit, or already has. That seems like it might be a step in teh right direction using sample layers. I tried the Alesis USB kit, and thought the pads were a bit to small for my liking.

There is another option by a company I think called 2box, the drummit 5. It seems like it might be a step up from the current offerings, but its not available in the states yet.

I am just surprised at the price tag of these things. Seems like if I am going to drop 2 grand on an ekit, it should smoke you know.

 

[Juggernaut]

absolutely, hell for $2000 you can buy a nice acoustic set....

I'm not a drummer by any stretch, I can hold a basic beat and thats about it, but should be fun learning and practicing on it. I have several friends who are drummers that I can get over to do some recording to get something beyond my basics.

 

[Motorpud]

I've always hated electronic drums. I have a set just sitting by my guitars and I won't even dare to turn it on I don't know why it hasn't been sold yet

 

[Juggernaut]

I've always hated electronic drums. I have a set just sitting by my guitars and I won't even dare to turn it on I don't know why it hasn't been sold yet

what kit is it?

 

[JTyson]

I've always hated edrums too. You already have Addictive Drums, have you tried recording a midi track, then converting it to AD??
Were using V-drums and living with the stk programs for practice, but running AD for the recording mix.
We cant get the acoustic drums to sound that good no matter what we do, and believe me, we have spent a lot of time trying to make that work in a room that is less than desirable for a decent drum sound.
Dont give up yet

 

[Audioholic]

I've always hated edrums too. You already have Addictive Drums, have you tried recording a midi track, then converting it to AD??
Were using V-drums and living with the stk programs for practice, but running AD for the recording mix.
We cant get the acoustic drums to sound that good no matter what we do, and believe me, we have spent a lot of time trying to make that work in a room that is less than desirable for a decent drum sound.
Dont give up yet

I have a pretty decent acoustic kit, and have recorded it several times. In my room, its not ideal as well for acoustic kit, but have made it work ok, better then what these ekits have to offer in terms of sound imo. I also have just added in some samples with a free audio to midi converter, and that worked great as well. I have AD, and now using Oceanway drums pretty exclusively. In my opinion, oceanway drums is a HUGE step up from AD. I actually had to buy it cause I was working on a project and they did not like my drum sound with AD, which I though was fine. But after upgrading, Oceanway drums is way more realistic and sounds Killa! The yamaha kit sounded best to my ears, but I am not sure it will translate as a proper trigger for oceanway.

I am not against getting an ekit to use exclusively for sample library triggering, but still think its a pretty big waste of money to have to buy a crappy sounding brain to trigger. A good feeling ekit alone is pretty pricey for whatever reason. Pretty much a rippoff imo for what you are getting. small heads etc.

This is the only product that has my interest peaked for edrums. Problem is that its not here in the states yet. Biggest thing is that the snare doesn't machine gun nearly as much as the current offerrings do.

http://www.2box.se/Pages/drumit_five_demo.html


Some of the better kits trigger just fine, and the bigger mesh pads feel pretty good. but bottom line, there is absolutely no reason why a tom, or snare should machine gun in this day of technology. its embarrasing

 

[JTyson]

My bad, I just realized you dont have them yet. We had the luxury of having an older set of Vdrums to try all this out. We are strictly using them as triggers, and they dont respond like the newer stuff does.
By the time we compared what we ended up with using acoustic drums vs what we had with the AD/edrums, it really wasent any comparison. The edrums dont change with the weather or humidity, and we never have to tune them (which was a whole separate nightmare) We were amazed how well it sits in a mix as is, without a bunch of fuss.
I really to this day cant believe I like the end result better with edrums, but it is what it is
Please share some info on oceanway, is it a software program like AD?? I know you really liked the AD sounds, if you say its much better, I must hear them ASAP

 

[JTyson]

UH....... just listened to the link in your post. Thats not the oceanway stuff is it?? Honestly, I think the AD sounds blow that into the weeds
maybe thats a different controller for existing edrums??

 

[Audioholic]

My bad, I just realized you dont have them yet. We had the luxury of having an older set of Vdrums to try all this out. We are strictly using them as triggers, and they dont respond like the newer stuff does.
By the time we compared what we ended up with using acoustic drums vs what we had with the AD/edrums, it really wasent any comparison. The edrums dont change with the weather or humidity, and we never have to tune them (which was a whole separate nightmare) We were amazed how well it sits in a mix as is, without a bunch of fuss.
I really to this day cant believe I like the end result better with edrums, but it is what it is
Please share some info on oceanway, is it a software program like AD?? I know you really liked the AD sounds, if you say its much better, I must hear them ASAP

Actually you like the sound of the software better, rather then the edrums. Adding samples is not new at all in music production, and even with bigtime studios recording drums in a great room, they still often add in samples to beef up the kit. Layering.

Oceanway Gold is what I have. It is a bit more complicated then AD, take longer to load, but its mapped out a bit more, and let me just say that it pretty much craps all over Addictive drums in terms of sound. Especially the snare!!

Here I will post an A/B for ya

 

[Audioholic]

UH....... just listened to the link in your post. Thats not the oceanway stuff is it?? Honestly, I think the AD sounds blow that into the weeds
maybe thats a different controller for existing edrums??

No that is the 2box electric drum kit. which sounds better then the rolands. posting an example

 

[Audioholic]

Jtyson

here is a side by side of Addictive drums and Oceanway. The first examples has vocals in the AD, but not the oceanway, but try to listen to just the drums. The second example is a heavier attempt. in both examples, addictive drums is first half, and oceanway is second half in each clip.

Bottom line for me, and for the publisher I was creating this for, chose the oceanway drums. They are more clear, sound fuller and bigger and less grainy then the Addictive samples.

(Edit, for copyright reason, I took down my other examples)

Here is a side by side comparison of the same midi file. First with a Preset from Addictive drums, then a preset from Oceanway.

While I know I can tweak Addictive drums (and oceanway) I just figured grabbing a preset would be easiest. What I find consistent is that Addictive drums always sounds a bit more gritty, slightly grainy and less clear compared to oceanway. Oceanway sounds fuller and more clear 9/10 times. Addictive drums is still great, but I think when it comes for me trying to pass off real acoutics, I am going to have to use oceanway from now on. Like I said I was working with a publisher who wasn't happy with my drum sound, untill I upgraded.

 

[Ancient Alien]

I am really surprised that you didn't like the Rolands.
My drummer has a fully loaded TD 20X kit with all the extra drums and cymbals plus the Octopad.
Grant it, out of the box, a lot of the sounds leave a lot to be desired just like an AxeFX
But, I have spent a lot of time tweaking sounds for him since he is basically a technical retard when it comes to anything computer oriented.
The amount that you can dig into each drum is mind blowing as far as wood type, skin type, depth, mic position, etc etc etc
I have gotten some of the most amazing sounds out of his kit for him that trump stuff like DKFH and most samples I've used.
I agree that they are not for people who want to just get behind the kit and go.
They do take a lot of programming, especially for all the real sick realistic samples.
Plus, they trigger better than anything else on the market, once again, there are a lot of parameters that can be tweaked.
Plus the fact that he is running it through fucking amazing monitors, the QSC K12's and K Subs which blow Mackie, JBL and others out of the water.
They sound like shit through anything less than $500 headphones too.
Here's some shitty web cam pictures of it.

 

[Audioholic]

Yeah I am not complaining at the triggering, that is very nice, specially on the 6 grand kit. And I am sure you can tweak the sounds, but even tweaked, can you get rid of that machine gun on the triggering? toms and snare really bad. there should be no reason why it machine guns nowadays. But in general I found the sounds overly processed and not very realistic.

The sheer amount of money sunk into a kit like that though is pretty intimidating

 

[Ancient Alien]

Yeah I am not complaining at the triggering, that is very nice, specially on the 6 grand kit. And I am sure you can tweak the sounds, but even tweaked, can you get rid of that machine gun on the triggering? toms and snare really bad. there should be no reason why it machine guns nowadays. But in general I found the sounds overly processed and not very realistic.

Absolutely.
That was the first thing we dove into when he got the kit.
There is like 10 different settings that are global for all the drums.
Once you set it, it is done.
My drummer has ridiculous stick control and speed, and it was a big problem when he first got it set up.
I called their customer support, and the guy Justin there got us set in like 2 minutes.
A lot has to do with properly setting the skin tightness also.
They come from the factory tuned like shit from what I saw, so the kit you played was probably right out of the box.
There are a bunch of the natural wood kits that sound amazing.
What we did was start from scratch and build completely new kits with no processing.
Almost every stock kit comes with some kind of effect, EQ, compressor etc on the kits, which is where that processed sound is coming from.

 

[bigdaddyd]

Yeah I am not complaining at the triggering, that is very nice, specially on the 6 grand kit. And I am sure you can tweak the sounds, but even tweaked, can you get rid of that machine gun on the triggering? toms and snare really bad. there should be no reason why it machine guns nowadays. But in general I found the sounds overly processed and not very realistic.

Absolutely.
That was the first thing we dove into when he got the kit.
There is like 10 different settings that are global for all the drums.
Once you set it, it is done.
My drummer has ridiculous stick control and speed, and it was a big problem when he first got it set up.
I called their customer support, and the guy Justin there got us set in like 2 minutes.
A lot has to do with properly setting the skin tightness also.
They come from the factory tuned like shit from what I saw, so the kit you played was probably right out of the box.
There are a bunch of the natural wood kits that sound amazing.
What we did was start from scratch and build completely new kits with no processing.
Almost every stock kit comes with some kind of effect, EQ, compressor etc on the kits, which is where that processed sound is coming from.

I am not a drummer, but know someone that is well known in the industry. He has raved about the Roland's and even showed them to me via youtube clips to show me how great they were. He has full page ads with endorsements with various companies in Modern Drummer, or at least did the last time I spoke to him. I would not doubt that what is said above is true, and that it just takes time to dial those tones in. The Namm videos that I saw were pretty insane and sounded every bit as good as an acoustic kit. These were top of the line Roland's though and very expensive as you indicated.

 

[Audioholic]

Yeah I am not complaining at the triggering, that is very nice, specially on the 6 grand kit. And I am sure you can tweak the sounds, but even tweaked, can you get rid of that machine gun on the triggering? toms and snare really bad. there should be no reason why it machine guns nowadays. But in general I found the sounds overly processed and not very realistic.

Absolutely.
That was the first thing we dove into when he got the kit.
There is like 10 different settings that are global for all the drums.
Once you set it, it is done.
My drummer has ridiculous stick control and speed, and it was a big problem when he first got it set up.
I called their customer support, and the guy Justin there got us set in like 2 minutes.
A lot has to do with properly setting the skin tightness also.
They come from the factory tuned like shit from what I saw, so the kit you played was probably right out of the box.
There are a bunch of the natural wood kits that sound amazing.
What we did was start from scratch and build completely new kits with no processing.
Almost every stock kit comes with some kind of effect, EQ, compressor etc on the kits, which is where that processed sound is coming from.

Thats good to know. But honestly I don't have near that amount of cash to get into Rolands top of line. I didn't really like the TD4 or 9 well enough to sell my acoustic kit just yet.

 

[Audioholic]

Yeah I am not complaining at the triggering, that is very nice, specially on the 6 grand kit. And I am sure you can tweak the sounds, but even tweaked, can you get rid of that machine gun on the triggering? toms and snare really bad. there should be no reason why it machine guns nowadays. But in general I found the sounds overly processed and not very realistic.

Absolutely.
That was the first thing we dove into when he got the kit.
There is like 10 different settings that are global for all the drums.
Once you set it, it is done.
My drummer has ridiculous stick control and speed, and it was a big problem when he first got it set up.
I called their customer support, and the guy Justin there got us set in like 2 minutes.
A lot has to do with properly setting the skin tightness also.
They come from the factory tuned like shit from what I saw, so the kit you played was probably right out of the box.
There are a bunch of the natural wood kits that sound amazing.
What we did was start from scratch and build completely new kits with no processing.
Almost every stock kit comes with some kind of effect, EQ, compressor etc on the kits, which is where that processed sound is coming from.

I am not a drummer, but know someone that is well known in the industry. He has raved about the Roland's and even showed them to me via youtube clips to show me how great they were. He has full page ads with endorsements with various companies in Modern Drummer, or at least did the last time I spoke to him. I would not doubt that what is said above is true, and that it just takes time to dial those tones in. The Namm videos that I saw were pretty insane and sounded every bit as good as an acoustic kit. These were top of the line Roland's though and very expensive as you indicated.

True, But even some of the pro demonstrations leave me a bit wanting when it comes to the roland. I can hear just some of that lacking in round robin triggering that sticks out. less so on the top kit for sure, but its still there. But I don't have 6 grand to drop. wow thats expensive

 

[Ancient Alien]

I am not a drummer, but know someone that is well known in the industry. He has raved about the Roland's and even showed them to me via youtube clips to show me how great they were. He has full page ads with endorsements with various companies in Modern Drummer, or at least did the last time I spoke to him. I would not doubt that what is said above is true, and that it just takes time to dial those tones in. The Namm videos that I saw were pretty insane and sounded every bit as good as an acoustic kit. These were top of the line Roland's though and very expensive as you indicated.

I hear you.
The kit I posted pics of has been played by a few very very well known drummers in the jazz and session world, and they too were absolutely blown away.
My friend is the drum tech for many of the best of the best and my close friend Todd invented the DW9000's.
I myself can barely play a straight beat