Lets talk about Les Pauls for Hard Rock/Modern Rock/Metal

[axemeaquestion]

I don't get the appeal of having an actual LP. I've played many, done side by side tone comparisons to my humbucker equipped axe, and there was no tone improvement on the LP's, and mine played better.

You've never played a great Les Paul then. My Gibsons (LP Custom, LP Standard, and SG Standard) just sound heavier, meatier, have more sustain, feel more resonant in my hands, and are more comfortable ( I prefer a chunkier neck, I sold off most of my Ibanez RG Series guitars because of the thin necks.) than my other HB guitars.

What good is doing side by side comparisons when you are obviously biased toward your own guitars?

I expected them to be better than my guitar, after all, they're LP's. I've probably played about 10, which should be more than enuff to get a feel for them. Again, nothing wrong with them, but they aren't the holy grail by any means.

Now the JT Variax, that's the holy grail.

obviously trolling.

On a serious note, you have to play a Les Paul that's been set up nicely. They always have the action set really high at the stores.

These weren't store LP's. They were actual living guitarists' gits.

Many of you badmouth Gibson all the time on these threads. I'm far from the only one who doesn't think they're all that and a bag of chips.

They're far from the best guitars ever, but when you find a good one little else compares. Also I think some of the Japanese LP copies are great, and so are the Heritage H-150s and H-157s, which are made in the USA and can be had far a little over $1,000 used. I think Gibson's pricing is what invites all the hate.

Pricing, yes, and quality control.

If you strip away all the ego, they are pieces of wood with double coil magnetic pickups, not dissimilar to other pieces of wood with double coil magnetic pickups made by other companies.

 

[JonVengeance]

I don't get the appeal of having an actual LP. I've played many, done side by side tone comparisons to my humbucker equipped axe, and there was no tone improvement on the LP's, and mine played better.

You've never played a great Les Paul then. My Gibsons (LP Custom, LP Standard, and SG Standard) just sound heavier, meatier, have more sustain, feel more resonant in my hands, and are more comfortable ( I prefer a chunkier neck, I sold off most of my Ibanez RG Series guitars because of the thin necks.) than my other HB guitars.

What good is doing side by side comparisons when you are obviously biased toward your own guitars?

I expected them to be better than my guitar, after all, they're LP's. I've probably played about 10, which should be more than enuff to get a feel for them. Again, nothing wrong with them, but they aren't the holy grail by any means.

Now the JT Variax, that's the holy grail.

obviously trolling.

On a serious note, you have to play a Les Paul that's been set up nicely. They always have the action set really high at the stores.

These weren't store LP's. They were actual living guitarists' gits.

Many of you badmouth Gibson all the time on these threads. I'm far from the only one who doesn't think they're all that and a bag of chips.

They're far from the best guitars ever, but when you find a good one little else compares. Also I think some of the Japanese LP copies are great, and so are the Heritage H-150s and H-157s, which are made in the USA and can be had far a little over $1,000 used. I think Gibson's pricing is what invites all the hate.

Pricing, yes, and quality control.

If you strip away all the ego, they are pieces of wood with double coil magnetic pickups, not dissimilar to other pieces of wood with double coil magnetic pickups made by other companies.

You'd be surprised at what a difference different pickups, construction methods, types of wood, shape, hardware, finish, etc. make.

I have probably close to 20 guitars and none of them sound the same. However; my Gibsons do have similar tonal characteristics that I enjoy. Those tonal characteristics combined with how they play are what draws me to similarly constructed guitars. I'm not saying I can only get that from a Gibson, but I prefer Gibsons, Heritages, and Japanese Gibson clones for my tone.

 

[axemeaquestion]

I don't get the appeal of having an actual LP. I've played many, done side by side tone comparisons to my humbucker equipped axe, and there was no tone improvement on the LP's, and mine played better.

You've never played a great Les Paul then. My Gibsons (LP Custom, LP Standard, and SG Standard) just sound heavier, meatier, have more sustain, feel more resonant in my hands, and are more comfortable ( I prefer a chunkier neck, I sold off most of my Ibanez RG Series guitars because of the thin necks.) than my other HB guitars.

What good is doing side by side comparisons when you are obviously biased toward your own guitars?

I expected them to be better than my guitar, after all, they're LP's. I've probably played about 10, which should be more than enuff to get a feel for them. Again, nothing wrong with them, but they aren't the holy grail by any means.

Now the JT Variax, that's the holy grail.

obviously trolling.

On a serious note, you have to play a Les Paul that's been set up nicely. They always have the action set really high at the stores.

These weren't store LP's. They were actual living guitarists' gits.

Many of you badmouth Gibson all the time on these threads. I'm far from the only one who doesn't think they're all that and a bag of chips.

They're far from the best guitars ever, but when you find a good one little else compares. Also I think some of the Japanese LP copies are great, and so are the Heritage H-150s and H-157s, which are made in the USA and can be had far a little over $1,000 used. I think Gibson's pricing is what invites all the hate.

Pricing, yes, and quality control.

If you strip away all the ego, they are pieces of wood with double coil magnetic pickups, not dissimilar to other pieces of wood with double coil magnetic pickups made by other companies.

You'd be surprised at what a difference different pickups, construction methods, types of wood, shape, hardware, finish, etc. make.

I have probably close to 20 guitars and none of them sound the same. However; my Gibsons do have similar tonal characteristics that I enjoy. Those tonal characteristics combined with how they play are what draws me to similarly constructed guitars. I'm not saying I can only get that from a Gibson, but I prefer Gibsons, Heritages, and Japanese Gibson clones for my tone.

I agree pups make a massive difference. The other items cannot be neglected, but they are minor in comparison.

 

[tekbow]

I don't get the appeal of having an actual LP. I've played many, done side by side tone comparisons to my humbucker equipped axe, and there was no tone improvement on the LP's, and mine played better.

You've never played a great Les Paul then. My Gibsons (LP Custom, LP Standard, and SG Standard) just sound heavier, meatier, have more sustain, feel more resonant in my hands, and are more comfortable ( I prefer a chunkier neck, I sold off most of my Ibanez RG Series guitars because of the thin necks.) than my other HB guitars.

What good is doing side by side comparisons when you are obviously biased toward your own guitars?

I expected them to be better than my guitar, after all, they're LP's. I've probably played about 10, which should be more than enuff to get a feel for them. Again, nothing wrong with them, but they aren't the holy grail by any means.

Now the JT Variax, that's the holy grail.

obviously trolling.

On a serious note, you have to play a Les Paul that's been set up nicely. They always have the action set really high at the stores.

These weren't store LP's. They were actual living guitarists' gits.

Many of you badmouth Gibson all the time on these threads. I'm far from the only one who doesn't think they're all that and a bag of chips.

They're far from the best guitars ever, but when you find a good one little else compares. Also I think some of the Japanese LP copies are great, and so are the Heritage H-150s and H-157s, which are made in the USA and can be had far a little over $1,000 used. I think Gibson's pricing is what invites all the hate.

Pricing, yes, and quality control.

If you strip away all the ego, they are pieces of wood with double coil magnetic pickups, not dissimilar to other pieces of wood with double coil magnetic pickups made by other companies.

You'd be surprised at what a difference different pickups, construction methods, types of wood, shape, hardware, finish, etc. make.

I have probably close to 20 guitars and none of them sound the same. However; my Gibsons do have similar tonal characteristics that I enjoy. Those tonal characteristics combined with how they play are what draws me to similarly constructed guitars. I'm not saying I can only get that from a Gibson, but I prefer Gibsons, Heritages, and Japanese Gibson clones for my tone.

he knows, he's being facetious. i went to write something cutting earlier, but realised i couldn't be bothered. don't feed the troll

 

[jwhitman]

Jeeze.... Looks like a started a "Hate" thread on Gibbies... Not my intention or purpose for this thread at all. I personally like the look and feel of a Gibson. I've also played a few amazing ones. It's a tone/style I'm looking for in my arsenal. I've got the PRS form of this sound pretty much locked down with my CU22 and the Tremonti I'm spec'ing for order.

Call it vanity, I don't really want a copy. I want a real one, and I could care less if it's an immaculate one or not. I just don't want a tonal dud or a guitar that was suited for a specific style or tone and won't accomplish what I'm looking for. Hence why I am asking what people recommend when they pursued a LP and this particular type of sound. Damn sure wouldn't buy a Bonamassa to play metal with ;p

Thanks for the advice a couple of you have given and shared with your experience. Sounds like a Traditional or Traditional Pro is what I'm after. I'm not worried about pups or tuners. As I plan on replacing them up serious upgrades.

 

[skoora]

I've been a long time Gibson player and feel recommending a certain model of LP is almost a waste of time. You need to play a bunch and one will "speak" to you. It may be a custom, standard or you get cursed and at a store it's the dreaded studio that blows away the others. Usually what happens to me is of the same two models I try it's the one in the color I don't like that sounds and plays better. I was at GC a few days ago and they had two used faded SG specials, around $400. Awesome price for a toneful beater. Well the one that played the best and needed no extra work, great vol roll off and bigger frets was not the one that sounded better. The other one, frets too small, sticky pots, either on or off on the vol control, sounded so much better. Very frustrating.

 

[TheMagicEight]

Sounds like a Traditional or Traditional Pro is what I'm after.

 

[killertone]

Been using LPC's for brutal metal to hard rock since '95. My favorite guitars ever.

I have a '73, '76, '89, and '97. My favorite one is my '76 closely followed by my '89.

 

[reverymike]

Here's mine. 1989 Standard, refretted with jumbo stainless steel frets, a fishman piezo/power bridge, currently has an Aldrich in the bridge, soon to be a 2nd Degree Blackbelt. This guitar has been a workhorse for me, regardless of the several pickups I've tried in her. It's not chambered. Hard Rock to the core. Paid $1200 back in '98.

 

[threadkiller]

I'd go with an Edwards, Greco, Burny, or Orville for the money you're talking. All great guitars that can be had in the $1k range and often less.

+1. Don't overlook epiphone either. Seriously.

 

[Mudder]

I'd go with an Edwards, Greco, Burny, or Orville for the money you're talking. All great guitars that can be had in the $1k range and often less.

+1. Don't overlook epiphone either. Seriously.

I forget about the Epi Elite/Elitist series, they def rock.

 

[RJF]

I've always wanted a Les Paul Classic.

 

[Ventura]

I've been a long time Gibson player and feel recommending a certain model of LP is almost a waste of time. You need to play a bunch and one will "speak" to you. It may be a custom, standard or you get cursed and at a store it's the dreaded studio that blows away the others.

Lotsa truth in this.

Fact: I am a Lester kinda guy.
Fact: I own several.
Fact: I play a lot of metal, aggressive, heavy, chugga-chugga, 'core music with my Lesters.

It's all in the feel. Once you get one that speaks to you 'feel' wise, then you can hot-rod the pups - and those BKP Aftermaths are definitely tits! Truss rod adjustment may be needed for some of these bands' genres - most notably Breaking Benjamin - those are baritone guitars, and specifically buillt to be baritone guitars. But of all the other stuff you mentioned, a LP will get you there with the right pups, right string gauge, right tuning, and right set up (action/truss).

They kick ass - but I had to go through a LOT to find the ones I currently have and love. And I'm always on the lookout for another

V.

PS: ePay and Craigs baby... There's a ton of 'em on board, and ya, it's a risk buying before you play... But they're out there. Shops can offer you at least different models to try - once you know your year, and model, you can commence the online search from there. Also - careful with 'weight relieved' versus 'chambering'. If you HAVE to get a non-solid slab body Lester, go with the Chambered models instead of the weight-relieved.

PSS: Watch out too, high output pups don't always complement a high gain amp. Fact (another one of those annoying things), moderately tuned pups that are middle-of-the-road output sometimes sound great with high-gain heads...they make the amp 'work' to push the sound. Sometimes standard/lower outputs can sound even better. Riff Raffs are awesome. Emeralds, wicked for higher output. BKP kicks ass - talk to Tim Mills, he'll give you the straight up goods and advice for the guitar and style of playing, he's never done me wrong and I'm a repeat customer through and through!

 

[gibson08]

Def buy a real LP! I agree with those that say to play it first, find the one thats for you, nothing wrong with a Classic model either, I had one and it rocked right out of the case, only one I have bought without playing first. There are lots of neck variations though, so make sure you know whats comfy for you, go to the local GC and play a bunch of them, you will find one that is yours.

 

[JonnyXXXMac]

I don't get the appeal of having an actual LP. I've played many, done side by side tone comparisons to my humbucker equipped axe, and there was no tone improvement on the LP's, and mine played better.

You've never played a great Les Paul then. My Gibsons (LP Custom, LP Standard, and SG Standard) just sound heavier, meatier, have more sustain, feel more resonant in my hands, and are more comfortable ( I prefer a chunkier neck, I sold off most of my Ibanez RG Series guitars because of the thin necks.) than my other HB guitars.

What good is doing side by side comparisons when you are obviously biased toward your own guitars?

This definitely. I feel strongly that Les Pauls are hit or miss as I've played quite a few so playing them and finding "yours" is 100% necessary. Also, I've owned an ESP Eclipse II and it feels NOTHING and sounds NOTHING like a Paul..I don't swear by Gibsons but my Les Paul feels exactly as JonVengeance explained - EXACTLY. My classic is my go to guitar..I try playing my EC1000 and put it down almost immediately. I still love my semi-hollow Xtone but it still doesn't come close to the Paul.

 

[TheMagicEight]

If you HAVE to get a non-solid slab body Lester, go with the Chambered models instead of the weight-relieved.

Just curious, what makes you prefer chambered to weight relieved? Nearly every weight relieved I've played has blown away any chambered I've played - though I too prefer a solid slab.

 

[Ventura]

I agree pups make a massive difference. The other items cannot be neglected, but they are minor in comparison.

I gotta call bullshit on this. The fact of whether or not they're solid slab, chambered, weight-relieved; the fact of whether or not they're maple topped or mahogny topped. The authenticity and era specific electronics. Rosewood verus ebony fretboard. There's a LOT to a Lester outside of the pups that are by no means 'minor' in comparison.

Just my 2 cents.
V.

 

[SFW]

I bought my 2001 Les Paul Classic in early 2002. It has been my main guitar ever since. When you find one that speaks to you it just becomes "that" guitar that you don't want to stop playing. I love my RGT220A, but my Les Paul just feels like home.

 

[Ventura]

If you HAVE to get a non-solid slab body Lester, go with the Chambered models instead of the weight-relieved.

Just curious, what makes you prefer chambered to weight relieved? Nearly every weight relieved I've played has blown away any chambered I've played - though I too prefer a solid slab.

I only own solid slab. But of the ones I've played that have been chambered versus weight-relieved, I found the chambered models to resonate better, maybe offer cleaner more pristine sustain, and 'hummed' better against my body. They felt alive.

Here's an excerpt from my guys at Gibson that may glean some light on this particular topic:


The weight of instruments can be difficult to generalize, as it is entirely dependent upon the piece of wood used. Chambered Les Paul models can range between 6.5-8.5 avg. depending upon the specific model. Weight relieved can be between 8-10.5 avg. Here’s some good info about this from the factory:



The weight relief pattern was changed in late 2006. We have modified the original "Swiss cheese" hole pattern to something that has a purpose other than to lighten up the guitar. Originally, the holes were cut in a pattern that maximized the available space and did not take into consideration tone, balance, and sustain. So, we felt that a scientific approach was best if we were to change the pattern. We knew that we could now measure frequency output of the guitar and also determine positive or negative effects of any changes to the internal routing. So, we initially approached the project from the perspective of just improving the placement of the original holes. As we began testing, we noticed that when we moved the holes closer together, sound and sustain improved. We then decided to try moving the holes so close together that they actually created one big hole instead of several small ones. The area volume was the same but the improvement of sustain and output was greater. This drove us to start playing with the actual shape and size of a single large chamber and then to multiple chambers, strategically placed inside the guitar. We couldn’t do much with the control pockets and pickup pockets so we decided to focus on all of the mass and area around those routings. After several months of testing, the current sonic tuning pattern emerged. This pattern works in all Les Pauls and gives us a much better sounding instrument, sustain is improved, and as an added benefit, weight has been reduced by 20%-30%. Sustain can be improved two ways; by creating rigidity and by sound reverberation. While reducing weight further wasn’t our goal, it definitely should be received as a positive side affect to our real goal; giving reason to our original weight relief pattern



Regarding your email about the VOS models, these are not weight relieved in any way. The Custom Shop has released limited models in the past that were chambered, and the serial numbers were labeled as CRXXXXX (the ‘CR’ indicated it was a ‘Chambered Reissue’). Thanks for the inquiry, and I hope this helps!

V.