Lets talk microphones!

[RockStarNick]

Anyone care to yap about guitar microphones?

I'm a long time user of the Shure SM57, but always looking for something different. Lately, I've had my eye on the Audix i5. Looks to be beefier and brighter sounding, but perhaps scooped in the mids. Anyone have any personal experience with this mic?

I'll can report on the following.

Shure SM57: I feel like without fail, I always want to hate it, but never do. In particular, when it's solo'd, it sounds slightly fizzy, and thin. But within the context of a recorded rock mix, I'll be damned if it doesn't just sit right every time. Placement is CRUCIAL. Dead center, it sounds like a heavy metal razorblade. On the seam, a warm rock sound. We're talking 1" increments, and a total different sound.

The quality of the preamp is also crucial. Straight into the Mbox, it kinda sucked. Into my $600 Presonus Eureka, it was like a different mic altogether.

Shure BETA 57: We used the SM57 for tracking rhythm guitars, and the BETA 57 for overdubs on our last session. And I gotta say, I think the tracks recorded with the BETA 57 sound more alive and present, with no additional EQ, when compared to the SM57. I ALMOST sold this mic a while back, and I'm glad I didn't...

Shure SM7b: The big, donkey-dick looking broadcast mic that is a favorite go-to vocal mic of producers Brendan OBrien and Rick Rubin. I heard great things about it on guitar cabs, so I decided to buy one and try it out. Right off the bat, you can tell that the SM7b "hears" in a flatter way than the SM57. It sounds less pre-EQ'd if that makes any sense. Captures a wider frequency response, and on the solo'd track, I'd say it sounds more natural than the 57. BUT, in a mix, needs some EQ to make it sit right. Great mic. Was it worth $350 to use as a guitar mic? For me, no, so I returned it.

Vocal: I've found that for me, the mic was almost TOO brutally honest, and did nothing to "nice" up my voice. Kinda made my voice sound honking in the mids. I'm sticking with my tried and true AT 4040, which so far, makes me sound the best.

Sennheiser e609 Silver: Very cool mic. Sounds wider than the SM57. more bass, More treble, less mids. Much more of a scooped-mid sound. Whereas the SM57 has that aggressive upper-mid bite, the e609 Silver has more of an aggressive upper-upper-mid/treble response. Not necessarily a more aggressive presence/sheen overall, but definitely a toothier high-mid/treble. I didn't totally love it on it's own, but it blended very well with the SM57 for some tracks that I recorded.

I'd love to hear some people's opinions on the Sennheiser e906 and the Audix i5. Perhaps comparing it to the SM57, because that seems to be a familiar baseline for everyone.

 

[guitarslinger]

IMO:

Sennheiser 906 sounds scooped on tape. It's possible I just have piss-poor recording gear, but I find it tough to get a full sounding recording with the 906 by itself. Also, I could never get it to hang perfectly straight in front of the amp. It always turned one way. It was one of my pet peeves.

Audix I5 has the most balanced sound I've heard for guitar. I really like it, A LOT. It just plain sounds normal and good. Great value too.

Shure Beta 57 was my first guitar mic. I still have it. i still love it. It has a thick midrange that sounds great in a mix. It's not quite as flat/balanced/uncoloured as the I5, but it really has a kickass, full signature sound.


I hope that helps a little bit.

Most people will probably disagree on the 906, but it's one of the few mics I've sold.

 

[RockStarNick]

Thanks for reminding me GS about the BETA 57... I added that to my list.

I really need to check out an Audix i5.

 

[Cornfordcrunch]

I may be in a small group of people, but I think the sm57 is the biggest POS mic for recording guitar ...or really anything. They sound congested and nothing like the amp sounds coming out of the speaker. Yeah...some of the greatest rock tones were recorded with a 57...blah blah blah...the sm 57 is the Yamaha NS 10 's of the mic world....sound like shi...t but became industry standard by way of paradigm.

Get yourself a large diaphragm condensor that can manage fairly high SPL's. I use an AKG perception 400. You mic the speaker and record it...it sounds like what's coming out of the box...if the source tone is crap, it will sound like crap...it doesnt add or remove anything that isnt there and it doesnt sound like the mic has a cold and needs to blow it's nose.

Or if you really want to get silly, buy a Royer 121 ribbon and couple it with a Sennheiser 421..unreal!

 

[RockStarNick]

I really do need to try out my condenser one of these days on my guitar amp. Its an AT 4040. Not sure how well it'll handle the SPL's though. I'm also hesitant to use it on guitars, because I use it on vocals too.

 

[guitarslinger]

I really do need to try out my condenser one of these days on my guitar amp. Its an AT 4040. Not sure how well it'll handle the SPL's though. I'm also hesitant to use it on guitars, because I use it on vocals too.

Actually, the Sennheiser 421 was probably the favorite I've ever tried.


IDK, maybe I've never had a great condenser, but I like the slight high end roll-off of guitar-voiced, dynamic cardioid/super cardioids. I find sparkly condensers to sound harsh and crunchy. I guess that's fine if you dial your treble to 11 o clock like the other TGP'ers trying to sound like Robben Ford.

 

[Cornfordcrunch]

I really do need to try out my condenser one of these days on my guitar amp. Its an AT 4040. Not sure how well it'll handle the SPL's though. I'm also hesitant to use it on guitars, because I use it on vocals too.

Actually, the Sennheiser 421 was probably the favorite I've ever tried.


IDK, maybe I've never had a great condenser, but I like the slight high end roll-off of guitar-voiced, dynamic cardioid/super cardioids. I find sparkly condensers to sound harsh and crunchy. I guess that's fine if you dial your treble to 11 o clock like the other TGP'ers trying to sound like Robben Ford.

Dynamics are cool mics for sure. The only thing that frustrates me about 57's and the like is the fact that we have all this money tied up in gear to give us the sound we like only have it sold short by a mic that doesnt translate what the amp is producing. The brittle and harsh rap about Condensors is justified with bad mic position or a really low end mic...But I use the AKG live and we record every show onto a HD recorder and when we dump the raw tracks to Pro tools, my guitar sounds like it should..maybe even a little bit darker than normal with no EQ.

 

[guitarslinger]

The only thing that frustrates me about 57's and the like is the fact that we have all this money tied up in gear to give us the sound we like only have it sold short by a mic that doesnt translate what the amp is producing. The brittle and harsh rap about Condensors is justified with bad mic position or a really low end mic...But I use the AKG live and we record every show onto a HD recorder and when we dump the raw tracks to Pro tools, my guitar sounds like it should..maybe even a little bit darker than normal with no EQ.

I'll be the first one to say, I was using a poorly positioned, low-end condenser.


However, I just want to say, and not to argue with you, b/c I agree, but the $90 SM57 used on a $4000 amp is, IMO, just like hooking up a $90 TS808 clone. If it works, it works.

 

[70strathead]

I've always been partial to SM57's, but I really do like AKG 414 standard.

A

 

[Greazygeo]

I've always been partial to SM57's, but I really do like AKG 414 standard.

A

an engineer used a 414 on my cab mixed with some other stuff at a session. Turned out really well.

I have 57's, Beta 57, I5's, E609S right now. The B57 is kinda nice and easier to position than the 57. I used to hate the 57, but its all right now. Just had to figure it out. The 609S I'm not having much luck with. The I5 is ok, but needs to be used in combination with something else....really scooped in the lower midrange....

 

[eternal_idol]

wow i love this topic....

Mics to be discusses in this section
MD 441, MD421, e 609, e906, e905, SM57, Sm58,
Rode Broadcaster, Rode NT1, Berhinger C-3,

ok i'll start by saying, its MUCH easier to get a good guitar tone using two mics on one speaker
get one mic to sound thin get one mic to sound muddy and mix em
yes htere is more to it then that but that it in its simple form

If a 57 sounds fuzzy you are using WAY too much gain in both you guitar amp and mic pre

guitar recording rule of thumb, turn down gain and treble and turn up mids for recording

my go too is definatly a 57 its what is easy. its not hard to place.
two work fro a norstrum style placement.

I like a 57 on axis pointed at the of the dustcap and my 906 parallel with the cone pointed inward at the edge of the speaker...i've never had phasing problems

the MDs are bright mics, the 441 more flat ish than the 421, massive bottem end outta the 421

609 and 906 are good, i favor the 906 it has the high end pad so you can place it right infront of the cone and not get a buzz saw coming out
or boost the high end if youa re placeing it on the outside of the speaker

the 905 is pretty much a 57 with out the mid spike or as much of one. sound pretty good for rock guitar

58 sucks as a guitar mic i only liked it mic near the edge of the speaker kinda thin

(btw both the Sm57 and 58 we both intended as vocal mics SM stand for Speech Mic, 57 was the presidents go to mic for years!)

rode broadcaster, LOVE this mic its totally in your face in a balanced way
its a very aggressive sounding mic i LOVED it...

NT1 nice condensor there are better great on acoustics tho


other mics i've used on guitar cabs, e604 tom mics (interesting don't remember using it thoin the mix)
and a e602 kick mic, really grunge sound pretty cool, mixed it in a little.

Brae

 

[amiller]

...
I like a 57 on axis pointed at the of the dustcap and my 906 parallel with the cone pointed inward at the edge of the speaker...i've never had phasing problems

Brae

Could you clarify the above just a little for us thickheads...me?

You stated that "the 906 is parallel with the cone" but then you say pointed inward. If it's parallel I don't see how it can be pointed inward. Also, by "edge" of speaker do you mean the outer edged of the cone closest to where the speaker bolts to the cab or the edge where the cone meets the dustcap? Sorry for being so thickheaded.

 

[Audioholic]

I agree with one of the comments, I always want to hate the 57 on guitar cab, but it usually works pretty well, specially on distorted tones. But it needs to either have another 57, or something else paired to it to get a bigger sound. The frequency responce of the mic just seems to capture distored tones pretty well.

the Audix I5 is also decent, though sometimes not quite as clear as the 57 on distorted tones, meaning it can get just slightly fuzzy on the top.

I think dynamic mics are a great choice for guitar. Condensers, usually you need to back off a bit to get more of a natural tone, too close and it can sound odd.

Heil PR40 (30) is probally my favorite dynamic mic for guitar cab. That and a 421, both really do a better job then the 57 imo.

A ribbon mic, Really liked the Peluso R-14, good price and sound

 

[Jordon]

TLM 103 or TLM 193 with a Sennheiser MD421.

Thread over.

 

[Mokaccino]

If a 57 sounds fuzzy you are using WAY too much gain in both you guitar amp and mic pre

SO TRUE.

I'm not enjoying my 57 right now, doesn't sound wide enough to my likings. It's a great mic, don't get me wrong but I think it's time for me to try some other mics. Based on the comments here, I should try the 609, might not be THE answer but I feel I should give it a go.

I use the Apex 460 for vocals and acoustic. Brilliant mic if you ask me, and cheap also. Mine's not modded in any way, totally stock. To me, it's better than those NT1 or NTK mics.

Since I have my Spider Valve I'm having a hard time recording, it seems I can't find the hot spot and it's pissing me off. And the direct XLR sucks in my opinion. I had better results when recording my DSL (4x12 with 75s). I'm pretty desperate about recording my Spider Valve. But the real problem is probably that I'm not using the mic properly. I tried pointing at the dustcap, edges of speakers, etc nothing works. I use a Presonus Firepod and Cubase LE, very simple and humble setup. It sounds too bassy and not wide enough, even when recording with 2 mics. Maybe I should try those 421. I dunno, help me, God.

 

[Dale B]

I've been having extremely good results here of late recording with a Cascade Fat Head with a Lundahl transfomer and a SM57. I just blend them together. The Cascade sounds extremely great on its own as well.

I have several other dynamic mics, but I've gotten hooked on the ribbon and dynamic combination.

 

[JTyson]

I have a handful of decent ones Sm57's, Shure KSM27, KSM32, AKG C414B-XLS, Senn. MD421, e609, PVM-T9000, and some other drum-specific mikes. I heard a lot of stuff that was ok, but not what I thought it should be, then I got a Universal Audio LA-610 Mic-pre, And the difference was AMAZING. I never realized a mic-pre made so much difference. I ended up with a combo of a 57, and a 421, each one positioned to thier own strong points, and so far its working out. I cant really say enough about the UA mic-pre, it has changed everything for me. Now I need 7 more of them, DAM. It seems your tone will only sound as good as its weakest link in the chain. I'm sure everyones heard Petrucci's tone, its fantastic, and he used a 57, or a combo of a 57, and 421 for their last 5 albums. I would dare say he had some badass mic-pre's, or it never would have sounded that good. I haven't tried some of the others being discussed, but I would stress that until you've heard them through a really good mic-pre, you haven't heard them at all - Jim

 

[blackba]

I like the SM57, but I like to mix it with an EV N/D468 or N/D308. I know the EV mics often get overlooked, but the ones I have were inexpensive used.

I really want to try the classic MD421 with an SM57, but alas have not MD421

 

[David_kessler]

Surprised no one has mentioned them yet, but the only thing better than an RE-20 is a pair of them.

 

[eternal_idol]

...
I like a 57 on axis pointed at the of the dustcap and my 906 parallel with the cone pointed inward at the edge of the speaker...i've never had phasing problems

Brae

Could you clarify the above just a little for us thickheads...me?

You stated that "the 906 is parallel with the cone" but then you say pointed inward. If it's parallel I don't see how it can be pointed inward. Also, by "edge" of speaker do you mean the outer edged of the cone closest to where the speaker bolts to the cab or the edge where the cone meets the dustcap? Sorry for being so thickheaded.

parallel with the cone meaning the side of the 906 ( the plastic part holding the screens) runs parallel with the paper cone.

parts of a speaker.
Voice coil - you don't normally see these unless its a mesh dust cap liek V30s
Dust cap - the little bubble of paper in the middle of the speaker
paper cone - connects the voice coil and mounting ring of the speaker

The edge - the widest part of the speaker, normally has weather stripping on it..(ie. green back weather stripping looks like cork)[or where it bolts to the cab]

edge of the dust cap - where the dust cap meets the paper cone

does that help? any more questions?

brae