Let's Talk PA's............

[LedZep77]

So my band has been using this guy's PA for a while (a former bandmate of one of my current bandmates) and he needs it back. Therefore, we need to buy a new PA. The problem is that I (or any of my bandmates) really don't know shit them. We would like to go with a more professional setup and mic all instruments, instead of just the acoustic guitar and vocals. We need enough to run:

4 vocal mics
2 miked guitar cabs and 1 miked bass cab
Acoustic guitar will run straight into the PA

Basically, I would like to know what all we should buy. I'm thinking the guitars should run through different speakers than the vocals? We use both clean and distorted tones. Probably will need at least 2 monitors. We already have all the mics, mic cables, and mic stands.

We would like to keep it around $1,500, so therefore, buying used would be ideal, unless we can somehow get a decent setup within our budget by buying new. I know $1,500 is on the low side, but that's where we're at right now. We are not looking for the be-all end-all of setups. Just something decent that will get the job done. Our plan is to upgrade as we go.

Thanks in advance

 

[blackba]

For a mixer, I would get a 16 channel, even though you have only listed needing 8 channels (what about the drums BTW)

Older Mackie mixers are going pretty cheap right now, I could have picked up a 24 channel mackie for $300 a while back. Allen& Heath Mixwiz series are great too, I have a 16:2 (V2), if you work with a dealer you should be able to get them down to about $750 new for a version 3. One feature to look for if you are using condensor mics at all is individual channel phantom power, my mixer has global phantom power, which can be a pain at times.

For speakers. Check out the yamaha club series. A couple of S115IV's for mains and a couple of SM15IV or SM12IV's for monitors should do the trick. They are up to the V's now, so the IV's should be cheaper. For power amps look at the QSC RMX series. You can get by with just 1 amp powering 4 speakers and buy more amps in the future.

Also for the acoustic guitar you need a direct box, I would go with the 1 channel active for the acoustic guitar or use a Peterson Strobostomp tuner if you already have one as it has a DI out. http://www.audiopile.net/products/DI_Boxes/DI_Boxes.htm

 

[ned911]

What is your budget?

Mixer - Allen and Heath Mixwiz3, it's the standard just get it.

Speakers: I would go powered so you don't need to mess with amps. This is where it gets tricky and your budget and venue size really matter. If you need flexibility I would 2 or 4 KV2 EX2.2 subs and 2 or 4 EX12 or EX10 tops. If you playing to less than 200 people look at Yorkville NX55's over NX720's, a nice inbetween rig would be Yorkville U15P's over UCS1P's or LS800P's.

Vocals and guitars through the same speakers.

For my 3 piece cover band we run 3 different systems. For Tuesday's outdoor rig or large indoor gigs we use 4 SRX718S's and 2 SRX715's. Subs are powered with a Crown ITech6000 and the tops with an ITech4000.

For smaller venues we use 2 Yorkie NX520P's (older version of the NX55) over an old ES700P. Everything is mixed with a A&H Mixwiz3, guitars and bass run direct with POD's or GSP1101, drum kit is fully mic'd.

For monitors I use IEM's and our drummer uses a NX25P, sometimes we use the NX520P's as wedges too.

I would put a direct box on the bass rig and not mic it. Direct boxes (Palmer PDI-09) on the guitar rigs will help with consistency too.

If I had to do it over I would go with KV2. The powered speakers are just easier to deal with and if your mixing from stage the processing is already built in, so it's setup and go.

 

[LedZep77]

For a mixer, I would get a 16 channel, even though you have only listed needing 8 channels (what about the drums BTW)

Older Mackie mixers are going pretty cheap right now, I could have picked up a 24 channel mackie for $300 a while back. Allen& Heath Mixwiz series are great too, I have a 16:2 (V2), if you work with a dealer you should be able to get them down to about $750 new for a version 3. One feature to look for if you are using condensor mics at all is individual channel phantom power, my mixer has global phantom power, which can be a pain at times.

For speakers. Check out the yamaha club series. A couple of S115IV's for mains and a couple of SM15IV or SM12IV's for monitors should do the trick. They are up to the V's now, so the IV's should be cheaper. For power amps look at the QSC RMX series. You can get by with just 1 amp powering 4 speakers and buy more amps in the future.

Also for the acoustic guitar you need a direct box, I would go with the 1 channel active for the acoustic guitar or use a Peterson Strobostomp tuner if you already have one as it has a DI out. http://www.audiopile.net/products/DI_Boxes/DI_Boxes.htm

Thanks, man. Lots of good info, and thanks for throwing product names out there so I know what to look for. Is running vocals through different speakers than the guitars a good idea? It seems like things could get muffled with too many instruments running through 1 set of speakers, but I really have no idea.

 

[LedZep77]

What is your budget?

Mixer - Allen and Heath Mixwiz3, it's the standard just get it.

Speakers: I would go powered so you don't need to mess with amps. This is where it gets tricky and your budget and venue size really matter. If you need flexibility I would 2 or 4 KV2 EX2.2 subs and 2 or 4 EX12 or EX10 tops. If you playing to less than 200 people look at Yorkville NX55's over NX720's, a nice inbetween rig would be Yorkville U15P's over UCS1P's or LS800P's.

Vocals and guitars through the same speakers.

For my 3 piece cover band we run 3 different systems. For Tuesday's outdoor rig or large indoor gigs we use 4 SRX718S's and 2 SRX715's. Subs are powered with a Crown ITech6000 and the tops with an ITech4000.

For smaller venues we use 2 Yorkie NX520P's (older version of the NX55) over an old ES700P. Everything is mixed with a A&H Mixwiz3, guitars and bass run direct with POD's or GSP1101, drum kit is fully mic'd.

For monitors I use IEM's and our drummer uses a NX25P, sometimes we use the NX520P's as wedges too.

I would put a direct box on the bass rig and not mic it. Direct boxes (Palmer PDI-09) on the guitar rigs will help with consistency too.

If I had to do it over I would go with KV2. The powered speakers are just easier to deal with and if your mixing from stage the processing is already built in, so it's setup and go.

Thanks for the response.

We are trying to keep it around $1,500 by buying used. The plan is to upgrade as we go.

So guitars and vocals through the same speakers shouldn't be an issue?

 

[blackba]

Here is a standard setup for a 4 piece band with 2 guitarists, bass, and drums.

16 channel mixer
4 vocal mics
2 guitar cab mics
1 Bass cab mic or go direct. I usually go direct
6-7 drum mics (although I have gone with as little as 2 or 3)
4 Monitor speakers (1 monitor for each person)
2 main speakers
2 subs
4 Power amps (1 for subs, 1 for mains, 2 for monitors[assuming 4 monitor mixes])
DBX driverack PA (has compressor, EQ, crossover, etc for mains)
Effects (Allen and Heath Mixwiz had onboard effects)

Since you are on a tight budget, you can get away with 2 main speakers and 2 monitor speakers and drive them off one amp. I would then get subs (Yorkville LS608 or LS808) + crossover and 2nd amp. Then get a couple of more monitors and another amp. You can go with powered speakers, but I prefer passive as they are generally lighter and I can use the power amps to power more speakers if needed if an amp goes down.

To answer your question, yes run both guitars and vocals through the mixer. The ideal situation is to keep stage volume down to a minimum, hence why some people like electronic drums and running their guitars through Axe-FX or PODS direct into the PA.

There is some great info in the HC live sound forums. They can chew up Noobs, so try to do your homework before you post a question there. There are some very savvy people over there that know alot more than I do.

 

[ned911]

For $1500 your going to be stretched to put together FOH (front of house) and a monitor rig.

Get a Mixwiz3 and monitors, then rent FOH speakers and amps or powered speakers for gigs until you have more budget. This is definitely a buy once cry once scenario. DO NOT CHEAP OUT.

I was a separate amp and speaker guy but some of the new powered boxes are fantastic. Our powered Yorkville NX55P's weigh less than our passive SRX715s which are supposed to be light weight.

Definitely go used. Find a rental house that is selling inventory or scan craigslist.

We are booked every weekend through July and love the Yorkville stuff, it's good bang for the buck.

 

[blackba]

For $1500 your going to be stretched to put together FOH (front of house) and a monitor rig.

Get a Mixwiz3 and monitors, then rent FOH speakers and amps or powered speakers for gigs until you have more budget. This is definitely a buy once cry once scenario. DO NOT CHEAP OUT.

I was a separate amp and speaker guy but some of the new powered boxes are fantastic. Our powered Yorkville NX55P's weigh less than our passive SRX715s which are supposed to be light weight.

Definitely go used. Find a rental house that is selling inventory or scan craigslist.

We are booked every weekend through July and love the Yorkville stuff, it's good bang for the buck.

+1 on the yorkville stuff. I love the Yorkville LS608 subs I just got.