level of Solo boost on bar gigs

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crankyrayhanky

crankyrayhanky

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So I'm in a 2 guitar band
At practice the inevitable volume war has escalated. I'm at the stage where I say F it, I'll keep my volume moderate and try to get others to come down
But my solo patches have evolved into having that huge boost to cut over the wall of noise

I prefer a more even approach; ie when the other guy is soloing, I sometimes back down my volume knob to create that space. Unfortunately, this technique is not shared by others in my band.

Now that a gig is here, I'm thinking I could keep my solo boosts moderate and let the sound guy make adjustments.
Is it too much to assume the soundguy will even care?
Should I keep the monster "look at me" boost?
 
I'd keep the monster boost because you can't always count on the soundman. I'm in two bands - one is two guitars, other has a keyboard player. I use about 2db boost but also with a mid boost too so it cuts through the mix and is a little louder overall.
 
I run about a 4db boost for the solos with the Mesa and still experimenting with the Friedman. Enough to be heard really.
 
If you had a great soundman that actually MIXES the gig, then I suppose you could trust him, but most soundmen that I deal with are set it and forget it guys. So I keep the power in my hands hahah
 
I'd stick with the "look at me boost" but don't ignore the escalating volume war issue either. If it gets out of hand, your band's dynamics will suffer. If you guys just play full on metal all the time, then disregard that advice and just keep turning it up.
 
I have my solo boost set at 3db. I have found that 3db is just enough to get over the wall so to speak.
 
Mr. Willy":24fazipi said:
I'd stick with the "look at me boost" but don't ignore the escalating volume war issue either. If it gets out of hand, your band's dynamics will suffer. If you guys just play full on metal all the time, then disregard that advice and just keep turning it up.
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I would either stick with your boost the way it is, or, as mentioned, lower the amount of boost and also boost your mids. Unless the soundman is being paid by you, they will likely not even notice your solos. At best they'll get levels, and a crap mix. ime.
 
As stated already most and that doesn't mean all but most sound guys are grabbing a smoke somewhere instead of being behind the board doing their jobs. Better to take the power back. Boost away.
 
Boosting aside, have you had a conversation with your band mates about dynamics. I mean sit down, guitars off we need to serve the song not our egos kind of conversation. If they are not capable of having this kind of discussion you are probably in for a lot of frustration. The main thing is that everyone needs to get down for the vocals. Same for a solo where you, the soloist, are the vocals so to speak. As a fellow guitar player, I can honestly tell you that the average audience member isn't paying attention to your solo. Sorry. If they can't hear the vocals, clearly, over the roar of a loud drummer and a wall of volume war guitar playing then the band "sucked". Just the way it is.
 
threadkiller":3k1opqnf said:
Boosting aside, have you had a conversation with your band mates about dynamics. I mean sit down, guitars off we need to serve the song not our egos kind of conversation. If they are not capable of having this kind of discussion you are probably in for a lot of frustration. The main thing is that everyone needs to get down for the vocals. Same for a solo where you, the soloist, are the vocals so to speak. As a fellow guitar player, I can honestly tell you that the average audience member isn't paying attention to your solo. Sorry. If they can't hear the vocals, clearly, over the roar of a loud drummer and a wall of volume war guitar playing then the band "sucked". Just the way it is.
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This...

Have "the talk" and see where it goes. I go by the rule that my leads need to fill the vocal space, at that volume no louder AND the vocals should be mixed well (read louder) so they are clear. I enjoy bands that have a nice snare and kick level, then the guitars come in at about the same volume, as does bass. So, even volume across instruments makes a HUGE difference in how the band sounds overall.
And don't listen to the audience tell you "turn this up, turn that up," because everyone wants to hear things differently and unless you trust the individual telling you, you can easily get the whole sound out of whack because of one idiotic comment. That said, if you are consistently getting told that the vocals are too quiet, listen :D

In the end, my solo's tend to get boosted a bit more than what others have said, more like 6db. I have found that 6db is in line with the overall sound, gets me on top, and doesn't drowned out everyone else. Usually the biggest complaint is the drummer is loud, so the guitars need to be loud to match. The problem is then the vocals are getting lost, especially when there is more than one person singing. Vocals NEED to be heard. Again, keeping control of stage volume can be challenging, however it is something to spend time on because it is worth it and will be a major factor in getting gigs and getting asked back to a venue.
You want people walking away that want to hear you again. They will seldom be saying, "I wish I could hear that cool solo again." You want them to want to hear the BAND, not an individual.

YMMV, good luck.
 
crankyrayhanky":2qen7sjo said:
I prefer a more even approach; ie when the other guy is soloing, I sometimes back down my volume knob to create that space. Unfortunately, this technique is not shared by others in my band.
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You should be doing this all the time, not just sometimes. It's mandatory in a 2 guitar band. If you and the other guitarist haven't already discussed this, then it's time you do it. That also goes for the bass player/keyboard player, too.

Without dynamics and consideration to each others space, you're all just a wall of sound with no distinction. Probably OK for some types of music I suppose, but usually not.
 
Leave the band.

Ray, I'm not being facetious. You can try for months (or years - eek!) to get your bandmates to learn dynamics, but if they haven't learned by this point, they ain't gonna learn it now. The frustration will only get worse over time. Don't waste your time or musical gifts on a group of amateurs.
 
For the past few years, I've been using rhythm-cut instead of solo-boost with my amps. Just a passive homebrew box with a 10k pot and a 3PDT footswitch, with one side of the switch going to an internal 9v for the LED. Before the box I was using an Ernie Ball 25K volume pedal but found it hard to maintain a consistent rhythm volume level; too variable. It worked perfect for swells, though.

I get some time this summer, I'm going to make an XLR A/B pedal for my single channel amps that don't have a loop. One mic input and two outputs, so I that can toggle between two channels on the mixer. When it comes time for solos, just hit the switch and the mic signal will go through a different channel strip set-up for a louder FOH and monitor mix. Should make the soundguy happier with not having to pay attention to my dumbass.
 
squank":18ongc1g said:
Leave the band.
.
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:lol: :LOL:
I actually thought I was "retired" a few years ago. I played lots of cool gigs in my day, but when I started a family I figured I'd be an internet musician for at least a few years. These guys recruited me and changed their jam schedule to let me in...it's a cover band, which typically was my arch enemy for 20+ years, but these days it's fun to get out and crank it up. If I leave the band I'm likely to be homebound again, so while considered, I'll deal with the sound issues...we have a gig opening for Lynch Mob, so I'm pretty stoked.

example: we play Would by AiC. To me, the verses are totally chill on guitar and provide almost background ambiance- the magic of that song is in the bass guitar groovin with the drums and solid vocal melodies. The other guitarist will often leave his gain/volume maxed, putting in pick screetches and all kinds of in your face bullshit. I think that's the part that drives me insane. I tell him every practice, but it's typically head-nod than ignored. Does he not understand or not care? IDK. He finally backed off last practice. Funny, he has no volume boost for solos, so those aren't loud enough, but the rhythm volume is super loud. He plays great, but tones and band mix approaches need development. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but my last bandmates spoiled me. Those guys were totally chill- especially the other other guitarist who understood the 2 guitar approach and when to back off, step it up, etc...
 
oh, for tonight I'm going to implement a solid volume boost for solos, just not as extreme as it has been, maybe add a little mids.
Thanks to all, the replies helped me think this thing through. I'll write a post gig reaction so you can see the exciting conclusion to this tale :lol: :LOL:
 
One word.

Trio.

I'm so sick of crappy amateur guitar players and keyboard players and singers who think they can play guitar and bass players................. :doh:

But yes, I boost the solos. But I always talk to the sound guy and let him know I'm doing it. I have to because I've done it without talking to the sound guy before and he turned me down and when the solo was over he left me down. Buried. You have to let them know.
 
Go with a solo volume boost that is the "right" amount to be heard over the band.

Use your ears to dial in the right amount, Doesnt need to be "Massive"

And Yes, the soundman is a roll of the dice for sure.
At best the front of your solo will be cut off and the back end carrying into the song.
And yes, you'll have to make a stupid motion or face to the sound guy just before each solo to get his attention.
 
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