Line 6 Helix - Thoughts now that it's out?

[CaseyCor]

Now that it's out into the world, how is everyone feeling about the Helix? As a guy who digs modeling, but simply cannot afford an Axe-FX, this thing seems great to me. The feature set it great, it looks great, and the build quality is supposedly excellent. I've heard very mixed opinions on the amp sounds, which is par for the course when it comes to modeling, Line 6 in particular. The POD stuff has left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. Hard reputation to shake. I was never a fan of the POD stuff, but that doesn't mean Line 6 can't make a great product now, IMO. POD did what it was supposed to do. It sounded decent, was portable, fairly flexible, and cheap. I'm under the impression the hate for Line 6/POD comes from people expecting way too much.

It sounds really good in these videos from Rob Chapman/Andertons. Anderton really digs into the Line 6 guy about their past product lineup It's a dick move, but pretty funny in the end. Worth a watch if you have even a passing interest in the Helix. The first video is an overview with tons of direct recorded playing, and the second is using the Helix as an effects processor in front of an amp. Paul Hindmarsh (the Line 6 rep) is a killer guitar player.

The videos both contain some very good and useable tones, at least to my ears.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Never touched it. Watched a shit ton of people on TGP return theirs to wait for the AX8, but I've heard some decent clips from it.

Talking about can't afford the Axe, would you finance this or something? This thing is like $100 less than a used AxeII, dude. If you're not financing, save your $ and I'll point you at some deals. I saw a couple II's go for like $1500 recently.

 

[Racerxrated]

How about the Atomic Amplifire? 599.....not as many options but seems to be pretty cool...at a good price.

 

[CaseyCor]

Never touched it. Watched a shit ton of people on TGP return theirs to wait for the AX8, but I've heard some decent clips from it.

Talking about can't afford the Axe, would you finance this or something? This thing is like $100 less than a used AxeII, dude. If you're not financing, save your $ and I'll point you at some deals. I saw a couple II's go for like $1500 recently.

You're comparing a used product to a brand new product, and leaving out the floorboard and expression pedal controls, which will cost extra. The Axe-FX 2 XL+ is $2,249.95 direct from Fractal, not including the MFC-101 controller at $649.95 and the EV-1 expression pedal at $199.95. The Helix includes both of these control options on board, at a list price of $1500.

I'm not saying you are wrong, or that buying used is a bad idea. I agree that used is the way to go, but comparing the used price to the price of a brand new unit simply isn't fair. The Helix new would still cost less than buying all of the comparable components from Fractal on the used market. According to your post, I can get a used Axe-FX II for the same price as the Helix, but I would still have to track down and spend money on the controllers, which are included in the Helix. With that logic, I could buy a used Helix and actually save money.

This completely ignores the sonic difference between the two, the most important issue, which is why I am asking for people's opinion on the tones. From the videos I posted above, the Helix sounds great IMO. I've heard Axe-FX clips sound much worse than the demos I posted above, but I'm sure I can find examples of people who have coerced the Helix to sound terrible as well. I'm a big fan of the Axe-FX, but I'm not attached to Fractal in the way a lot of people seem to be. I am a tech guy outside of playing music. I am accustom to looking for the next version of a product, either by the same company or a competitor, that is better and hopefully cheaper too. Doesn't always work out that way, but that's the hope.

I'm wondering why the TGP guys are so unhappy with the Helix? I'm not a TGP member. I'll have to make my way over there and find some threads. I have a feeling it's the usual bias against anything Line 6, but having that thought makes me in turn, bias. It's unfair for me to assume that, just as it's unfair to assume the Helix isn't as good just because it's made by Line 6, or anyone who isn't Fractal.

How about the Atomic Amplifire? 599.....not as many options but seems to be pretty cool...at a good price.

I need to look into the Amplifire more. I've only heard a few clips of the device, and I did not like the sounds at all. The clips were directly from the company, which soured me on the product a bit. It doesn't really do anything I need though. I can use Bias Desktop and do even more than the Amplifire in my situation. I will look into it more regardless. I know there are some people here at RT who are very happy with it.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Dude, I wasn't trying to be a dick or anything.....you stated in the OP that you were a big fan of modeling but couldn't afford an Axe...I wasn't trying to compare apples and oranges or whatever, and I wasn't talking about external controllers and everything. I was just saying that you can get an Axe used for the same price as the Helix new.

As far as the tones, after going thru a ton of modelers and a bunch from Line6 even, you know what I've noticed? The more you spend, the easier it is to use and get great tones. Not that there are great tones immediately available, but that they're in there with less work involved in getting them. The original PODS were an EQ nightmare, HD500 was a bitch to program and EQ was a must; BIAS and JamUp were the same way, but less so, Amplitube was better and has gotten even easier to use recently, and the AxeII and the Kemper can be tracked with patches in place and have good tones with very little tweaking.

The TGP guys are actually big fans of Line6, and own a ton of their products.....there's an 800 pg thread over there about the Helix. The thing with them is they buy everything....and then either keep it or pass it on or return it, just to satisfy their curiosity.

From what I've heard in clips and people that have them have told me, it's pretty intuitive and easy to use...there's a big thread over at SSO too, where we all compared clips from our various modelers, Kempers, AxeIIs and Helixes, and it stood up very well to what the accepted badasses are....the fact that you can load 3rd party IRs makes a huge difference, being that you're not stuck with their cabs, which have always been a weak point for the Line6 stuff I've used in the past.

I'd say if you can grab it, do so...maybe even do it from someplace with a return policy in case you're not a fan and want to return it.

 

[CaseyCor]

Dude, I wasn't trying to be a dick or anything.....you stated in the OP that you were a big fan of modeling but couldn't afford an Axe...I wasn't trying to compare apples and oranges or whatever, and I wasn't talking about external controllers and everything. I was just saying that you can get an Axe used for the same price as the Helix new.

As far as the tones, after going thru a ton of modelers and a bunch from Line6 even, you know what I've noticed? The more you spend, the easier it is to use and get great tones. Not that there are great tones immediately available, but that they're in there with less work involved in getting them. The original PODS were an EQ nightmare, HD500 was a bitch to program and EQ was a must; BIAS and JamUp were the same way, but less so, Amplitube was better and has gotten even easier to use recently, and the AxeII and the Kemper can be tracked with patches in place and have good tones with very little tweaking.

The TGP guys are actually big fans of Line6, and own a ton of their products.....there's an 800 pg thread over there about the Helix. The thing with them is they buy everything....and then either keep it or pass it on or return it, just to satisfy their curiosity.

From what I've heard in clips and people that have them have told me, it's pretty intuitive and easy to use...there's a big thread over at SSO too, where we all compared clips from our various modelers, Kempers, AxeIIs and Helixes, and it stood up very well to what the accepted badasses are....the fact that you can load 3rd party IRs makes a huge difference, being that you're not stuck with their cabs, which have always been a weak point for the Line6 stuff I've used in the past.

I'd say if you can grab it, do so...maybe even do it from someplace with a return policy in case you're not a fan and want to return it.

I know you weren't, and I wasn't trying to be either. I just see a lot of this "just buy used" mentality, completely ignoring the fact that some people don't want to browse craigslist and potentially shady message boards looking for a deal. After saving up money for who knows how long to buy a piece of gear, why would I want to wait even longer for a proper and safe deal to crop up? The people who say "go used" are the same people who keep complaining about gear not moving, receiving low ball offers and attempted scams. The Axe is missing key features which the Helix has, and is still more expensive on it's own. Getting those features requires even more funds.

I'm reading through the TGP thread now, and so far it's nothing but bitching and infighting. From the words of other people here, that's par for the course at TGP I guess? I have no clue. I've yet to decide if it's worth combing through the thread, looking for any constructive posts.

I was very surprised to hear about the 3rd party IR support. I would have expected that to be cut in an attempt to lower the cost. The ease of use is really drawing me to the Helix, for sure. That's not to say the Axe-FX isn't easy to use when combined with the Axe Edit software. Axe Edit makes a huge difference. It would be more fair to compare the Helix to the AX-8, but that is difficult considering are still a lot of questions about the AX-8 that are yet to be answered. I did hear the AX-8 can only run one amp sim at a time, which is strike one for me. The Helix can run dual amps in mono or stereo, which I find to be important when using amp sims. Running a dual amp rig in Amplitube improved my tone immediately. I've since moved on the Bias, but I do miss the stereo amp feature. I could recreate the stereo signal in the DAW, but I have yet to do it. Shit, I just play acoustic guitar now anyway. I've always played acoustic more than electric, even when writing Prog/Death Metal compositions.

I've had really good luck with Bias Desktop. I plugged in, downloaded some amp matches (Mark IIC+ mostly), tweaked for a few minutes, and I was good to go. I'm surprised you had an issue with finding tones you enjoyed. Any idea why that is? Are your issues with Bias comparable to issues you've had with other modelers? I'm curious as to how many of the issues we all have are universal to the technology. I do find I just don't have as much fun with Bias. Sitting in front of the computer just takes the fun out of it, for whatever reason. It's mostly physiological, I'm sure. I have the same issue with PC Gaming. I am a "hardcore" (ugh) gamer of many years, yet I still try to avoid PC gaming whenever possible.

 

[Steinmetzify]

I know you weren't, and I wasn't trying to be either. I just see a lot of this "just buy used" mentality, completely ignoring the fact that some people don't want to browse craigslist and potentially shady message boards looking for a deal. After saving up money for who knows how long to buy a piece of gear, why would I want to wait even longer for a proper and safe deal to crop up? The people who say "go used" are the same people who keep complaining about gear not moving, receiving low ball offers and attempted scams. The Axe is missing key features which the Helix has, and is still more expensive on it's own. Getting those features requires even more funds.

I'm reading through the TGP thread now, and so far it's nothing but bitching and infighting. From the words of other people here, that's par for the course at TGP I guess? I have no clue. I've yet to decide if it's worth combing through the thread, looking for any constructive posts.

I was very surprised to hear about the 3rd party IR support. I would have expected that to be cut in an attempt to lower the cost. The ease of use is really drawing me to the Helix, for sure. That's not to say the Axe-FX isn't easy to use when combined with the Axe Edit software. Axe Edit makes a huge difference. It would be more fair to compare the Helix to the AX-8, but that is difficult considering are still a lot of questions about the AX-8 that are yet to be answered. I did hear the AX-8 can only run one amp sim at a time, which is strike one for me. The Helix can run dual amps in mono or stereo, which I find to be important when using amp sims. Running a dual amp rig in Amplitube improved my tone immediately. I've since moved on the Bias, but I do miss the stereo amp feature. I could recreate the stereo signal in the DAW, but I have yet to do it. Shit, I just play acoustic guitar now anyway. I've always played acoustic more than electric, even when writing Prog/Death Metal compositions.

I've had really good luck with Bias Desktop. I plugged in, downloaded some amp matches (Mark IIC+ mostly), tweaked for a few minutes, and I was good to go. I'm surprised you had an issue with finding tones you enjoyed. Any idea why that is? Are your issues with Bias comparable to issues you've had with other modelers? I'm curious as to how many of the issues we all have are universal to the technology. I do find I just don't have as much fun with Bias. Sitting in front of the computer just takes the fun out of it, for whatever reason. It's mostly physiological, I'm sure. I have the same issue with PC Gaming. I am a "hardcore" (ugh) gamer of many years, yet I still try to avoid PC gaming whenever possible.

All good...I usually buy used here and a few other places as it's a good way to save $, and I can usually find what I'm looking for almost always. I get that you don't want to do that, now, and you're right about the Axe missing things that the Helix can do, so that's cool.

The TGP thread gets better later on....they're nuts over there, but there are always good clips going on in different threads. Here's one if you haven't seen it.....they do a bunch of comparison stuff with the Axe and Kemper and a few other modelers and talk about EQing it as well.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index. ... d.1624399/

AX-8 is supposed to be a stripped down version of the AxeII/XL, so yeah, there are some limitations; like you said, no dual amp chains, no recording via USB, and a few other things that the Axe can do will be absent...it's more for people that dig on one or two chains per song or every few and want to use it for gigs, rather than the all in one live/studio piece of gear.

As far as issues with different modelers, I'm a guitarist, not an audio engineer. The issues I've always had can be directly attributed to user error....I can dial in a mean tone, but that doesn't mean I can EQ it to sound good in a mix, you know? The higher end modelers take a lot more of the guesswork out, which is one of the reasons I dig on the Axe so much...not to mention the fact that there's so much support for it....tons of guys writing patches, entire preset banks, etc....which means I only have to tweak for my guitars, not build an entire preset list from scratch. The base presets in almost every modeler I've ever had just SUUUUUCKED....and that's not the case with the Fractal. Not a super fanboy or anything, but I dig on it quite a bit. I do think it's one of the easier to use modelers out there, and I'm seriously grateful for that.

Gamer since Atari 2600, dude....console all the way. Everything from Defender up to the latest COD, and I'd never be able to enjoy it as much sitting in front of a desk. I sit at a desk at home for work all day, and I'd never have any fun doing the same thing for the thing that's supposed to relax me lol.

Be interested in your view on the Helix if you get it....there were a few guys here that snagged one when they first showed and their reviews were favorable. I don't know if they still have them, but I'm sure if they do they'll pop in. Didn't mean to derail your thread.

 

[PBGas]

I actually had the rack version and control for Helix on order but I passed on it. The retailers up here probably won't see those until next year anyways. I did try a demo unit that the rep brought in of the floorboard model and I could make it work. In my case, by chance the amp and cabinet that I have always wanted surfaced in a fantastic deal for me and thus, I went with that instead. I'd rather use a Torpedo Live with it for my recorded and FOH tones as the amp represents the exact tones that I have been.

In the end, I think you could get some great tones from the Helix. It's like anything else, you need to play around with it and work with it. Nice to have so many options out there these days!

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

I have the Amplifire. I'm so damn impressed with the thing, I'm getting an AX-8 and contemplating losing the tube amps. As for L6 modelers. I've had every single one (all of them) except the Felix and found them to be sizzly processed sounding units. Therefore, I'm not touching the Helix. I was not expecting to be impressed by any means, by the Amplifire. I'm a fussy prick with tone.

This thing, with the ability to use IR's is amazing. Even that 3 dimensional tone (as I describe it) that I hear with my tube amps, seems to be present. All the subtle nuances, the attack and the feel are present. I am a metal picker. I need to hear that percussive attack when doing the 000 0000 000 0000 thing on the 6th string. With the previous modelers I've used, this seemed to be lost.

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

I recently got back into Call of Duty on XB1. Bad move. I'm not like all the other people that game. I don't have the time to get good. Do you realize that there's guys, since Black Ops III came out, that have a catheter connected and their mommy to change it every 3 hours, that still have not got up out of their gaming chair? I get the game 7 hours after it's released and there's guys at level 28. I mean come on. I get annihilated so back I ended up smashing my headset. I returned the game and got Fallout 4. Ok, back to the Helix.

 

[shreder75]

I recently got back into Call of Duty on XB1. Bad move. I'm not like all the other people that game. I don't have the time to get good. Do you realize that there's guys, since Black Ops III came out, that have a catheter connected and their mommy to change it every 3 hours, that still have not got up out of their gaming chair? I get the game 7 hours after it's released and there's guys at level 28. I mean come on. I get annihilated so back I ended up smashing my headset. I returned the game and got Fallout 4. Ok, back to the Helix.

Fallout 4 on x box 1 is eating up large chunks of my life right now

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

Dude, I'm getting frickn annihilated. It's just so hard to kill anything besides Feral Ghouls.

 

[Racerxrated]

I have the Amplifire. I'm so damn impressed with the thing, I'm getting an AX-8 and contemplating losing the tube amps. As for L6 modelers. I've had every single one (all of them) except the Felix and found them to be sizzly processed sounding units. Therefore, I'm not touching the Helix. I was not expecting to be impressed by any means, by the Amplifire. I'm a fussy prick with tone.

This thing, with the ability to use IR's is amazing. Even that 3 dimensional tone (as I describe it) that I hear with my tube amps, seems to be present. All the subtle nuances, the attack and the feel are present. I am a metal picker. I need to hear that percussive attack when doing the 000 0000 000 0000 thing on the 6th string. With the previous modelers I've used, this seemed to be lost.

Hmm. That's good news, as I've been contemplating the Atomic for a while now. Nice.

 

[audiomidijace]

I played the Atomic AmpliFire at the LA Amp Show through a power amp in to a Marshall 4x12 and it sounded fantastic! I also tried the Line 6 Helix there through some studio monitors or PA speakers (can't remember which) and I couldn't dial in anything I liked. Tried headphones too. The UI and build quality was top notch though.

 

[CaseyCor]

Thanks for the words dudes. I'm glad the AmpliFire is working out for you. If you have any clips of your own, or someone else getting quality tones, please share. The only thing I've heard is the clips on the AmpliFire website, and I wasn't impressed. I'm sure there are clips out there of it sounding great, I just haven't put the time in to find them. That's on me.

 

[shreder75]

Dude, I'm getting frickn annihilated. It's just so hard to kill anything besides Feral Ghouls.

Really? I've found then to be a particular pain in the ass because they're so damn fast! You know you can put enemies on the ground if you target their legs in VATS, right? That helps

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

Dude, I'm getting frickn annihilated. It's just so hard to kill anything besides Feral Ghouls.

Really? I've found then to be a particular pain in the ass because they're so damn fast! You know you can put enemies on the ground if you target their legs in VATS, right? That helps

Yeah, maybe it's cause I tuned my luck to 2 stars starting out. All strength and nothing else pretty much. I'm on LVL7 and the fucking ammo and guns is few and far between. Everytime I get killed the splash screen shows some nice ass weapon (which I don't have yet) and pisses me off.

Yeah by the time I try to switch a gun there's someone in my face. Game is pissing me off, even though I do like it.

 

[shreder75]

Dude, I'm getting frickn annihilated. It's just so hard to kill anything besides Feral Ghouls.

Really? I've found then to be a particular pain in the ass because they're so damn fast! You know you can put enemies on the ground if you target their legs in VATS, right? That helps

Yeah, maybe it's cause I tuned my luck to 2 stars starting out. All strength and nothing else pretty much. I'm on LVL7 and the fucking ammo and guns is few and far between. Everytime I get killed the splash screen shows some nice ass weapon (which I don't have yet) and pisses me off.

Yeah by the time I try to switch a gun there's someone in my face. Game is pissing me off, even though I do like it.

It's not easy starting out in any of those games. I came on a tower full of super mutants yesterday. Was shooting stim packs like crazy. And I was in power armor to boot