Line Out / Slaving Question

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matttornado

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Hello everyone! 1st post here (I think) lol.

I have Marshall Superlead attenuated & I am running a line out from my attenuator into the FX return in my Marshall DSL40 CR. It sounds absolutely amazing but I have a problem. When I run the line out from the attenuator into my older 80's Ibanez digital delay or Boss DD-3, I get very weak delay repeats, even with the level maxed on the pedals. My MXR mini booster (for leads) works fine though, at least it seems. I get the volume boost I want easily.

So what is happening? Adjusting the Line level's volume doesn't help. I thought maybe I was overloading the delay?

Do I need a line level to instrument level converter?

Thanks!
 
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Do you have a delay that isn’t old? Could be an issue with the capacitors in the pedals themselves needing replacement due to age.

You would need to know what level is output from the attenuator before knowing what to convert. You could accidentally double a line level or half an instrument level output and only make things worse by first not knowing what the source is actually creating.

Welcome to the forum! Post some rig pics in a separate thread!
 
Sounds like the line out on the attenuator is too hot of a level for the pedal. Alot of the line outs are not optimized for line level on most attenuators. What attenuator are you using? The line out on my THD leaves alot to be desired, Since I have the Suhr Iso line out I never actually tried the line out on the my Rivera Rockcrusher it might be alright but the Suhr excels at what it was designed to do.

If you are looking for the most transparent line out device you may want to look into the Suhr Iso line out, it is transformer isolated, plugs in to your open speaker jack where it taps the signal there and works awesome for a line level pedal impedance.

The Suhr is the best I've found for Slaving or W/D/W setups hand down.
 
Thanks for the replies!

I forgot to mention that I get the same results with my Bray LO-1 Line out box. Now when I use my delay in the DSL's FX loop when just using that amp (send and return), my delay(s) work perfect.
 
matttornado said:
Hello everyone! 1st post here (I think) lol.

I have Marshall Superlead attenuated & I am running a line out from my attenuator into the FX return in my Marshall DSL40 CR. It sounds absolutely amazing but I have a problem. When I run the line out from the attenuator into my older 80's Ibanez digital delay or Boss DD-3, I get very weak delay repeats, even with the level maxed on the pedals. My MXR mini booster (for leads) works fine though, at least it seems. I get the volume boost I want easily.

So what is happening? Adjusting the Line level's volume doesn't help. I thought maybe I was overloading the delay?

Do I need a line level to instrument level converter?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Matt,
Try putting your delay in the Loop of your Super Lead, and keep everything else the same
 
matttornado said:
Thanks for the replies!

I forgot to mention that I get the same results with my Bray LO-1 Line out box. Now when I use my delay in the DSL's FX loop when just using that amp (send and return), my delay(s) work perfect.
Click to expand...
I have not tried the Bray LO-1 so I can't comment on how it functions. Bray builds good stuff but I don't know if it matches the deisgn or quality of the Suhr Iso Line out. I have used two DD-3's and Ibanez EM5 echomachines in a W/D/W configuration with the Suhr and they always worked perfectly I have sine moved on to a BOSS DD500. What you are describing is either your tapped signal is too hot or there is an impedance mismatch with the Bray line out or the Bray unit is not working properly.
 
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Zachman said:
Matt,
Try putting your delay in the Loop of your Super Lead, and keep everything else the same
Click to expand...
Thanks but my Super Lead doesn’t have an FX loop so I slave it to my DSL’s Fx return with a delay and boost in between. I’m starting to think the signal is too hot maybe?
On the attenuator, i put the line out at the input of the attenuator so its seeing a cranked 100+ watts of raw power.
 
matttornado said:
Thanks but my Super Lead doesn’t have an FX loop so I slave it to my DSL’s Fx return with a delay and boost in between. I’m starting to think the signal is too hot maybe?
On the attenuator, i put the line out at the input of the attenuator so its seeing a cranked 100+ watts of raw power.
Click to expand...

Bummer... Definitely an Impedance/Line/Gain Staging Level issue. If the signal is too hot, you'd get terrible clipping distortion into your pedals. If that's the case-- dial back the Line out level on the attenuator and turn up the volume on the DSL on the clean channel

Does your loop on the DSL have adjustable Send/Return level controls? If not, if it's like a Metro Zero Loss loop, you may need to adjust the loop itself. If you can't then... You might try a pedal that has a +4dB Line Level/-10dB Instrument level selectors on the Inputs and Outputs
 
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Zachman said:
Bummer... Definitely an Impedance/Line/Gain Staging Level issue. If the signal is too hot, you'd get terrible clipping distortion into your pedals. If that's the case-- dial back the Line out level on the attenuator and turn up the volume on the DSL on the clean channel

Does your loop on the DSL have adjustable Send/Return level controls? If not, if it's like a Metro Zero Loss loop, you may need to adjust the loop itself. If you can't then... You might try a pedal that has a +4dB Line Level/-10dB Instrument level selectors on the Inputs and Outputs
Click to expand...
I plug the line level into the DSL's FX return, not the amp's input. It does not have a level control for the fx loop return.
The DSL sounds awesome with my set up, just the delays sound terrible.
 
matttornado said:
I plug the line level into the DSL's FX return, not the amp's input. It does not have a level control for the fx loop return.
The DSL sounds awesome with my set up, just the delays sound terrible.
Click to expand...

Line out into the delay, then out of the delay into the fx return in the DSL. Got it.

How loud are you setting the output level on the attenuated Super Lead?

Have you tried swapping the instrument cables connecting the delay, and cleaning the jacks on the line out send of the attenuator, and the delay w/ contact cleaner?
 
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Zachman said:
Line out into the delay, then out of the delay into the fx return in the DSL. Got it.

How loud are you setting the output level on the attenuated Super Lead?

Have you tried swapping the instrument cables connecting the delay, and cleaning the jacks on the line out send of the attenuator, and the delay w/ contact cleaner?
Click to expand...
I set the line level at about 9:00 O'clock on the attenuator & it is tapped at the speaker input so the attenuation level does not effect the line level; it always sees the cranked Marshall full bast. The delay works perfect in the DSL's Fx Loop when using that amp alone. Delay works fine.

Here's the line Level I installed in my attenuator;
 

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I imagine the Bray LO-1 is designed to plug into your open speaker jack correct? Have you tried just he Bray LO-1 into the speaker jack all by itself?

Now you must remember to used an actual speaker cable to connect from the amp to the Bray Line out then you use a regular audio shield cable to go from the Bray unit to your delays then into your power amp return jack on you DSL. I would think that would be stipulated in the Bray instructions.

What brand attenuator are we talking about? THD, Marshall, Rivera?
 
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matttornado said:
I set the line level at about 9:00 O'clock on the attenuator & it is tapped at the speaker input so the attenuation level does not effect the line level; it always sees the cranked Marshall full bast. The delay works perfect in the DSL's Fx Loop when using that amp alone. Delay works fine.

Here's the line Level I installed in my attenuator;
Click to expand...
Try using a DMM and measure the voltage and current of your line out signal
 
Get a rack unit that can take a line level signal. There are several old units that can be found for a low price these days. I got this Replifex for $120 for the exact same thing you're doing

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I did some more experimenting last night and found out that I got much better results with the line level from the attenuator and my Bray line out box if i use the line out after either the attenuated signal or with the Bray line out / ppimv.

Another thing too is that instead of sending the speaker through the Bray line out box, I tap into it using the 2nd speaker jack.

Not sure if that makes a difference but now my delay sounds much better.

So i have options. I can use the amp’s ppimv and just the bray box, or I can use the attenuator/ line out if i want to get the amps cranked tube distortion sound and i can slave the Marshall too and use it as a load box.

All i have to do is change the attenuator’s line out so it’s tapped at the speaker output instead of the input where it was seeing too hot of a signal (I think).
 
matttornado said:
I seriously have to check into that!
thanks.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think a rack delay is the best solution for this. What I'm doing is slaving the 2204 into the Palmer load box, then line out of the Palmer into the Replifex, then into the power amp and 4x12. So basically the same concept you're talking about. I tried to use a few pedals and none of them really worked. The Replifex solved the problem. But any rack effect will do since they all work well at line level.
 
Sorry but why not use a DI box with a -15db PAD button?
 
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